Iwan2go

For wonderful reasons (a niece's wedding), we need to change our usual late April trip next year to either after Christmas 2014, or August 2015. We have talked to family about going for a week to Barcelona this December but they might not be able to go after all. If that's the case, we need to decide if we should make that trip alone in December (and book soon, as it's over NYE), or postpone and take an entirely different one in August. My questions are mainly weather related about August, and I could sure use your help!

We live in Southern California and have taken wonderful August trips to Maine and the Olympic Peninsula, and I'm looking for similar weather in Europe. We have recently been to the Cote d'Azur, and anyway I imagine that it - and similar beach cities - would be crazy busy in August. We're not really summer beach people anyway, like the mountains more. We enjoy gardens, museums, relaxing, walking, good food. Are in good shape in our 60s.

This is my tentative itinerary. :

Depart LA, fly to Milan, stay three nights (I've bookmarked The Yard Milano Suite and Dependance, or Hotel Principe de Savoie as interesting choices)

Train/ water taxi to Bellagio, stay three nights (Hotel Florence or another hotel)

Train to Lucerne, stay three nights (not sure where to stay, looked at Wilden Mann, Montana, and Hotel Schweizerhof, if we strike it rich...)

Train to Freiberg, Germany, and rent a car. Stay three nights at Ambiance Jardin www.ambience-jardin.com between Colmar and Strasbourg. See those cities and the southern Black Forest.

Drive to Baden-Baden (Hotel Grand Epoque? could stay in a B&B nearby, but haven't done a lot of research on that) , stay two to three nights and see the northern Black Forest.

Drop off the car, train to Frankfurt airport and fly home.

Might need to drop one night, depends on how next year goes.

My main questions are: What's the weather like in the Black Forest and Alsace in late August? We're ok if it's on the warmer side, but is it crazy humidity like New Orleans or the southern US? I am assuming that Milan, Bellagio and Lucerne will be milder.

Are the crowds in Bellagio totally overwhelming at that time? I assume that it will be somewhat crowded. Just not Disneyland crazy crowded.

Thanks!

greg

For weather, you can find out the accurate historical info from several sources such as:

www.wunderground.com - weather history, monthly, then roll back to any previous years
www.accuweather.com - monthly view for average, roll back to 2013 for actual

Switzerland, Germany are not necessarily milder on a given date. Average may be. Somehow I have managed to be in the middle of heat wave at every trip to Switzerland. It is humid at any low altitude locations.

Bellagio: no train, no water taxi (for plebeians). Plebeians would take a ferry, a boat, a hydrofoil, a bus, a taxi, or a car to Bellagio. It is crowded during the day, but not early in the morning or late in the evening.

In addition to straight ambient temperature/humidity, another consideration is the availability of A/C. Hotels in Switzerland and Germany usually don't come with A/C. Of the three hotels you mentioned for Lucerne, the first two don't list A/C availability according to booking.com. Italian hotels often come with A/C even if they only run anemically. Even if the ambient temperature may be milder in Switzerland than in Italy, if there is no wind, there is no way to remove the hot air in the room at night without A/C.

quokka

Attention: FreiBERG is in Saxony, solid 8 hours away from the Black Forest. The one you mean is named FreiBURG. Make sure you reserve your rental car in the right city...

Iwan2go

Thanks, greg, you're right I was thinking of a hydrofoil. I did somewhat look into the transportation options from Milan, via Varenna or Como, and figure I can finesse that (meaning, ask here) later. Totally right on about the A/C! I have a feeling that the little B&B in Alsace doesn't have it and will need to make sure wherever we stay does.

Quokka, you're right, I meant Freiburg.

I did look at some websites re: humidity, but if anyone lives there or has visited in August, it would be great to know your experiences.

I could cut the trip down to two nights in Milan, if necessary, or even start in Frankfurt. I was thinking that I'd start in what I presumed were "cooler" places then work north to places that aren't at a high elevation as the month wore on.

Anybody else? Is this a good plan/itinerary? Thanks!

neckervd

If you would go to Lugano or Locarno, resp a place nearby, transport from Milan and to Lucerne would be much easier.
August is usually comfortably warm and dry at the Southern side of the Alps and absolutely unpredictable in the North. Rain and temperatures below 20 degrees centigrade/65 F cannot be excluded. Freiburg and Colmar are warmer and less rainy than the Black Forest.

sandralist

If it wouldn't break your heart to skip muggy northern Italy for this August trip then I would suggest that in favor of spending more time in -- gasp! -- Frankfurt! One of the reasons I suggest this is that you mentioned you like museums and gardens and Frankfurt has exceptional offerings on both counts. You certainly can count on getting air conditioning in a Frankfurt hotel if you need it.

Another reason I suggest maybe skipping Italy is those August crowds in the lakes. Yes, it calms down a bit at night -- but only a little and at night the views disappear as well. In Frankfurt you will pretty much have the whole town to yourselves except for the last 3 days of August when there is huge festival in town along the riverbanks with lots of entertainment and cultural events.

If the idea of lingering a bit in high-rise Frankfurt is unappealing then you might be able to pick one of the nearby historic places (mabye along the river?) with a good train connection in and enjoy the museums or garden but have more antique streets to stroll around in the evening. I've never been to Mainz but it might be of interest (only 30 minutes by train) or maybe somebody could suggest a smaller town.

Iwan2go

Thanks neckervd about the connections being easier from Lugano. I think Bellagio looked so beautiful - that's why I zeroed in on it.

Sandralist - so northern Italy is more muggy? I know Florence and Venice are, but didn't know about the lakes. At some point we'd like to go there, but if another month is a lot better we can perhaps change the focus of this trip to north of the Alps. I just didn't know what the weather was like in Alsace and the Black Forest, or north of there. I'll look into Frankfurt a little more. I do have a few guide books on Germany and Switzerland.

What about dropping the Italian part and doing something like flying into Frankfurt, then going down the river a little, seeing some of Germany and Alsace, ending in Lucerne, fly out of Zurich. Would that be better in August?

While we have driven quite a bit in France and Italy (and Spain, which once we got to the cities was too crazy), I'd like to know a little more about the geography along the Rhine near Bacharach, and the Mosel valley. Would it be possible to do this portion by train, then rent a car down in the Black Forest, or is the area easier to see by car? I think if we had a little less driving on windy or really steep roads it might be better. I am seeing lots of info on the Black Forest train. Are we better off using the KONUS pass in the BF; we'd like to go from our base in ? Gengenbach? Freiburg? (I prefer the hotel in Gengenbach, but it's more important to have better connections) into the forest, and also to Strasbourg and Colmar.

We have around 14 nights there to do the whole thing. It would be nice to limit it to about 4-5 places, as we prefer three night stays.

Thanks in advance, I appreciate your help.

Pepper_von_snoot

The Montana is my favourite hotel in Luzern. It overlooks the lake.

Wilden Mann is near the train station, not my idea of a serene, beautiful location.

The Schweitzerhof is right over the bridge in Luzern, across the street from the lake. You are within spitting distance of Hermes and Bucherer.

Luzern is tres, tres expensive.

Thin

bvlenci

Milan can be very hot and muggy in the summer. A lot of people we know who live there spend July and August here in Le Marche, which, although a lot further south is usually cooler and less humid.

sandralist

Milan is definitely muggy. Lago di Como is a crap shoot. Typically there is a breeze but if the air is still and the sun is beating on the lake, you are going to get thick humid air.

What makes the difference in Europe when it comes to getting the nicest August weather is elevation. The air is dry and even if the sun is hot, the temps drop at night.

If you stick to Alpine lakes and mountains you are unlikely to get staggering heat waves (although in these days of climate change all bets are off). But with an air conditioned car and booking air conditioned hotels -- and not being the kind of madman who walks around in the noonday sun -- you'll generally be fine It's not like you are planning the kind of vacation that involves marching around Pompei.

If you don't like crowds, though, you should give some thought to weather having crowds in some super famous destinations will spoil your experience of them. There is much beautiful territory in all the places you are contemplating and if you'd rather not be sharing it with bus tours, there are plenty of routes to take that give most of the tourists the slip. The Italian lakes are a challenge however in that regard. You can still find hideaways but if seeing the view from Bellagio is not so urgent this time around then it is easier to just to enjoy a different and lesser known pretty part of Europe.

Iwan2go

Well, it turns out that indeed, the family cannot go to Barcelona in December after all, so next year's trip will be in August. I was reading more about Lucerne and Switzerland, and it sounds glorious, so I'm looking into a new trip that begins in Alsace and ends at Lake Geneva.

I think I will post separately and ask about that one.

Thank you all for your advice! It is much appreciated!