In May 2010 there will be four 30-40 yr olds traveling to Italy. It will be my niece and my 2nd trip to Italy (we had done an organized bus tour previously) and our husbands' first trips. We all enjoy history, architecture, museums, people watching and are always willing to hike to get where we want to be. We have a tentative itinerary but we are not sure if we are being too ambitious AND it kind of falls apart at the end. We have a loose day at the end that we can put it somewhere else if necessary. We plan to take public transportation but thought it might be nice to rent a car in Naples for the southern part of the trip. This will be our 3rd long trip together and we are used to being up and about early and on the go constantly. My husband complains that he never gets lunch because we are running around so much. Thanking you in advance for all of your great advice.

Day 1 Arrive Rome orient ourselves

Day 2 Rome-Ancient --Forum, Coliseum

Day 3 Vatican City

Day 4 Rome- walking tour most things are closed on Sunday; Spanish Steps, Trevi Fountain

Day 5 Head to Naples /tour Naples

Day 6 Pick up a rental car -drive to Pompeii via Ercolano and Vesuvius. Head on to Sorrento

Day 7 Drive round Sorrento Peninsula to Amalfi. Spend the afternoon exploring some of the coastal villages. Spend the night in Ravello

Day 8 Explore the Greek ruins at Paetrum, drive east via Potenza to Matera. Head back to Naples for the night and return the car.

Day 9 Travel to Florence/Day in Florence (Uffizi, David, Dome etc.) Take bus to Sienna at dusk to walk around city and dinner

Day 10 Morning Pisa /Afternoon Lucca

Day 11 Venice / Stop in Bologna?

Day 12 Venice

Day 13 Padua / Vicenza for the afternoon

Day 14 Verona

Day 15 Milan

Day 16 Day trip to Lake Como-Varenna

Day 17 Trip somewhere around Milan?? Not sure what to do with this day??

Day 18 Fly back home

Take that extra day and add it to Florence. There is SO much to see/do there. You will fall in love with it. DaVinci, Dante, Galileo, the Medicis, Michelangelo. This is Florence.

DO run to the nearest Barnes & Noble or Borders and find the DK Eyewitness Travel Guide to Florence. You will find that even two days is just way too little...

I think you are planning too much with the "one day" here and there. Stay in one or two or three places max and actually enjoy the Italy experience. I'd skip Pisa/Lucca and spend a third day in Florence. But that is just me.

I'm sure you'll have a wonderful trip; I just think you have too much on your schedule.

Not enough time actually in Florence and Venice. I count only an afternoon in Florence (and a short afternoon at that), and a single day in Venice if you stop in Bologna. Florence really needs at least two days, and Venice needs at least three (not with side-trips, just for itself).

ditto 3 days florence and venice..
A good rule of thumb is to spend at least 3 nights at each place. Take daytrips verses change locations..

With the drive from Naples, and getting to Siena for the evening, IMO, you are really shortchanging Florence. Venice is also too short. I would give up something: Milan, Verona, Padua? and add a day to Florence and Venice. I'm not sure how I would re-arrange it, but I would try to avoid staying in Naples two different times. I also don't like just one night in Naples, one night in Sorrento, Verona, etc.

Just some ideas: You might arrive in Rome and go straight to Naples the first day and tour Pompeii and Ercolano from Naples if you want to stay in Naples. On the other hand, you could go straight to Sorrento and tour Pompeii (and even Naples) from there. You could also go straight to Sorrento, continue as planned and put Naples (Pompeii, etc.) after the AC. You could see Rome on your way back North.

Since you are stopping in Bologna, why not get an early start from Florence and also stop in Padua, arriving very late in Venice. I know it would be a long day, but would save a hotel move.

Then, visit Vicenza on your way to Verona, from Venice, saving another hotel move.

Rather than go into Milan, go ahead and visit the lakes and spend your last day in Milan.

I am sure others will have even better ideas, but this is how I would start thinking about it.

Hi H,

Lots of moving around.

Short shrift to Venice and Florence.

You are going to drive a car into and out of Naples?

You need to factor in travel time. Particularly, how are you getting from Naples to Florence? However you do it, it will take some time (quite a bit of time, if you plan to take the train). Then spending time there, and going to Siena later in the day, and for dinner? And if you're visiting Pisa and Lucca the next day, you'll have little to no time in Siena. Decide if you would rather visit Siena, Pisa and/or Lucca, or Florence.

And as much as I like Bologna, I would suggest skipping it for this trip, and spend more (relatively) in Venice. In addition, if you were planning on taking the train to Venice, and stopping in Bologna on the way, you'd have to deal with what to do with your luggage.

I'm not familiar with Italy south of Rome (we only visited that area once), but it might make more sense to NOT rent a car for that portion of the trip, then rent one for the Tuscany portion, especially if you end up not visiting Florence, and visiting the smaller cities instead. (While many people visit Florence, Venice and Rome on their first trip to Italy, there's no reason that you need to if your interests are focused in other areas.)

Too many hotel changes. Under no circumstances do you want to drive in Naples and certainly not twice. Pick up your car in Sorrento or Salerno. I think training to Salerno from Rome and picking up the car might be best. You could go on to Paestum from there and then back to the Amalfi area for overnights. I would not stay one night in Ravello - too many hotel changes and the parking might be difficult.

I would switch my Vatican City day with Colosseum day. I think perhaps you would have a bit less crowds in the Vatican Museums on a Friday, than a Saturday. Everything is open in Rome on Sunday's except the Vatican Musueums. Many things are closed on Mondays. I would plan a visit to the Borghese on Sunday (requires reservation).

You should pick a base on the Amalfi coast and not change hotels. You could drive to Pompeii one day, park your car in the lot, catch the train to Naples (30 minutes - station just across the road from Pompeii entrance) spend half the day in Naples and train back to visit Pompeii. I don't think you have time for Matera. You need some breathing room in your schedule.

For your list in Tuscany (Siena, Pisa, Lucca, Florence), I would stay in Florence and day trip to those places. all are within an hour bus or train ride.

You are discounting the time it takes to figure out how to drive somewhere, getting to and from hotels, checking in and out (how many times do you want to pack/unpack?), getting oriented in a new town/city, finding parking (sometimes quite difficult and expensive).

You've only listed going, going, going. Do you plan to actually stop and visit anything other than in Rome?

What a unique itinerary. I see 6 destinations here--that means hotels. Any more is not needed:

Rome
Amalfi coast
Florence
Venice
Lake Como
Milan

I think you should rent a camper and live in it!

It all sounds great (Bologna is wonderful but I personally would give more time over to Venice and/or Florence).

You are going to need to catch the first train or bus to each city to be able to give each a little time and then find a place to stay.

You could have Rome, Naples, Florence, Venice and Verona as bases for many of the day trips you want to make. DH and I visited Padua from Venice. We based in Verona and trained to Vincenza and Milano -you could get to Varenna also from there.

It's going to be busy but at your age, you can do it. You will then make lists of the places to which you wish to return and savor at leisure!

ditto what bob says - tooooo busy.

this is what you have now:

Day 1 Arrive Rome

Day 2 Rome-

Day 3 Rome -

Day 4 Rome-

Day 5 Head to Naples [will take all day]

Day 6 Pick up a rental car -drive to Pompeii via Ercolano and Vesuvius. Head on to Sorrento

Day 7 Sorrento to Ravello

Day 8 Ravello to Naples.

Day 9 Travel to Florence/Day in Florence (Uffizi, David, Dome etc.) will take all day++ no time for Sienna

Day 10 Morning Pisa /Afternoon Lucca [at a push]

Day 11 Venice / Stop in Bologna?

Day 12 Venice

Day 13 Padua / Vicenza for the afternoon

Day 14 Verona

Day 15 Milan

Day 16 Day trip to Lake Como-Varenna

Day 17 Trip somewhere around Milan??

Day 18 Fly back home

by my reckoning, that's 8 or 9 hotels and most of Italy in 18 days. madness.

have you booked flights yet? if not, forget everything last Venice, and do Venice to Naples, or even better, Venice to Rome.

if you have, try to change, or if you can't [wait for the howls of anguish] drop Venice.

IMHO this would be a mush better trip

Days 1-5 Rome. [moving on day 5 is a good idea as so mcuh is shut on a monday]

Day 5 - 8 - rome - Sorrento/amalfi/Ravello - justs pick one which is most convenient for what you want to do.

Day 9 -15 - train to Florence. apartment good for this length of time] loads of day trips if you get fed-up with Florence, alternativily rent an agriturismo somewhere is Tuscan countryside and do day trips from there.

Days 15-18 train to Venice, stay there til go home.

if you have to fly back from Milan, drop a day off Florence/Tuscany and spend day 17 on train from Venice to milan, staying overnight near the airport.

THat gives you 4 hotels [5 if you have to include Milan].

a holiday, not a route march.

well, you DID ask.

Agre with everybody you're going too many places. Learn the spoke-and-hub method of travel. Settle yourselves in one spot and make daytrips. You could stay in Sorrento and daytrip to Naples, Pompei/Ercolano, and the Amalfi Coast. (Not to speak of Capri.) Paestum might be a little difficult. Likewise you could stay in Florence and do daytrips to Pisa, Lucca, and Siena.

Independent travel is different than taking a tour. You have to expend more effort to get from one place to another; it can get tiring. You have to do a lot of planning ahead. But you can go only to those things you want to see and you can stay as long as you want. If you pick your travel companions carefully, you won't have to sit around waiting for that lady who's always late back to the bus.

And I wouldn't rent a car at all for this trip. You've only been to Italy once on a bus tour, your husbands have never been, and now you're going to drive in Naples! Haven't you heard about Italian drivers? Take the train. It's more comfortable, nobody needs to navigate, and you can all enjoy the scenery.

Here's the Slow Travel page with detailed information about driving and taking trains in Italy: www.slowtrav.com/italy/instructions/index.htm. Lots of good, detailed information.

I always love reading what you "regulars" have to say. I have read a lot of the postings over the years but this is my first posting and the responses have been wonderful. LOTS of food for thought.

I like the idea of staying in 4 places and day tripping from there. To help make the decision on whether to rent the car or not...can we take public transportation between Ercolano/Pompeii/Vesuvius. I really want to hike around on Vesuvius and I thought maybe having our own transportation would make it easier on us.

That being said, my European driving experience so far has been Ireland and Scotland. A decidedly slower pace, I am sure, than what I would experience in Italy. Even with the left-side driving I am used to help me!

We have not made concrete plans as of yet but want to start doing that here in the coming weeks. So everyones input is greatly appreciated.

vesuvianamobilita.it is the website for the bus up Il Vesuvio.

vesuviana.it is the website for the train between Naples and Sorrento. Pompeii and Ercolano are both on this line.

For the 7-day Amalfi coast part of our recent 40-day trip to Italy, we based in Vietri sul Mare, near Salerno. Rented a car at Hertz across from the train station in Salerno. Vietri made a perfect place for the trips you want to take in the area--Paestum, Pompeii, climbing Vesuvius, Herculaneum, Amalfi, Positano, Ravello. They were all within easy reach only place we didn't get to was Sorrento. You might want to take a look at hotels in Vietri (we stayed in a villa), which seem to be reasonably priced and a great base for the area.

For details, maybe my report ("40 days...) would be helpful. It's listed in the "Trip Reports" section, or click on my name above. Scroll down to Part 2.

Have a wonderful trip! Italy is so awesome. And driving in most parts of the country isn't difficult (except, by all means avoid driving in the big cities--Naples, Rome, Florence...)

hi heidme,

glad that you are taking the advice in the spirit in which it is offered - helpfully. we want you to enjoy Italy as much as we do, and try to stop you making our mistakes - you'll make plenty of your own!

I know that some don't like him, but Rick Steves is very good on how to get from A-B, what you can do with and without public transport. also the lonely planet and rough guides specialise in that. so your local libary may have or can get one of those guides.

also search this forum - look for transport around Naples, or Pompeii, or whatever keyword you think might help. and Vietri's thread is a must - loads of great information.

have fun planning

regards, ann

TravMimi: thank you for the bus and train information.

aprillilacs: 40 days in Italy! How wonderful for you. I did float over to your posting and I am mesmerized (and envious). The Vietri information is great. I will suggest that my niece read your thread as she is our able-bodied trip planner.