sandi_travelnut

What about Monticello? Isn't is supposed to be pronounced Monti-CHello?

I've only heard it pronounced
Monti-sello. Which one is correct?

cmt

I always READ that more than I HEAR it, and I've always pronounced the last part like the instrument "cello." It's easier to pronounce it as I see it (or as I see it as an Italian word). I hear it so rarely that I don't know what others say.

kayd

Thomas Jefferson's home in Charlottesville, Va., uses the correct Italian pronunciation "montiCHello" but in most other American uses, one hears "montiSello."
The familiar Italian words I use as reminders for pronunciation are "Chianti" for CH as K sound, and "ciao" for C as CH sound. Likewise "spaghetti" for the GH as hard G, and "gelato" for the J sound.
SC sounds as SH when it precedes i or e (sci means ski but sounds like she), but as K before a, o, or u. SCH gives the K sound before i and e.
With thes rules in memory, just about any Italina word can be pronounced almost correctly.

lobo_mau

thanks cmt

Intrepid1

Making absolutely CERTAIN that nobody, but NOBODY ever mis-pronounces the word "bruschetta" again sounds like one of those Miss America pageant platforms...

cmt

P.S. Thomas Jefferson knew Italian, so it makes sense if his Monticello is still pronounced in the usual Italian way.

i_am_kane

How about the double consonants:
annuale pronounced an-nuale,
dottore prounced dot-tore
cattedrale pronounced cat-tedrale
caffe prounced caf-fe
cappello prounced cap-pello
It's real tricky to learn how to prounounce those double consonants.

Also, s is prounced z, as in passano.

KT

Double s, as in passano, is not pronounced z. An s between two two vowels, as in paesano, is pronounced z. So is an s before a consonant at the beginning of a word, such as sbaglio.

But really, in the scheme of things, I'm not sure I can get any more indignant about this than about when an Italian doesn't pronounce an initial h, as in hungry. For one thing, while I've got a pretty good grip on Italian pronunciation, I'm sure I've massacred Czech and Hungarian, for instance.

i_am_kane

Thanks KT for clearing the s/z thing up. I will now be a better Italian studente.

cmt

No, the double "s" in "passano," which means "they pass" or "they go by" or "they go past" is NOT pronounced at all like a "z". It's a sibilant "s" as in the
English "passing," but is very clearly doubled. A single "s" betwenn vowels is generally pronounced more like a "z" (but a little softer), as in "rosa" or "asino."

bellastar

I just remembered a wonderful and entertaining conversation I had with an Italian friend who was visiting here and called to ask about plane tickets to visit his relatives in Cincinati, pronouncing the wordm of course, correctly in Italian!!!

KT

Eek, iamkane, your reply made me realize that I misstated the rule about the initial s+consonant! The s is pronounced like z only in front of some consonants (abaglio, sfida) but not all consonants (studente, scorso).

KT

I'm being an idiot.

First, I meant to write "sbaglio" not "abaglio."
Second, the s in sfida isn't pronounced like a z.

If I can get this correct this time, the initial s is pronounced like a z only when follwed by a b, d, hard g, l, m, n, r or v (except in some words borrowed from other languages). But don't quote me on that.

Anyway, as I said, I don't get too excited about these things in others' pronunciations, I worry more about my own.

And then there was my friend's Italian grandma who drank gingerale, pronounced jin-jer-all-ay.

Spygirl

See what you've started, Barb? All that guilt in those of who are erstwhile Italian students about how much we've forgotten! (but I'm very glad you brought up the bruschetta issue-I swear, that's bothered me for YEARS!)

i_am_kane

KT, I guess today is for "fessing up." I wrote my message quickly as we were closing the office because of a snow storm.

I am not a studente. Sono una studentessa!

That's why they put erasers on pencils.

No Italian lesson tonight. The temperature's dropping, and the roads are still messy.

tedgale

The rule about double consonants is easy. As I am Kane says, it does make a difference in pronunication.

The syllable ALWAYS divides between the doubled consonants, hence:
Pro-sciut-to
can-no-li
cap-pel-lo
pas-sa-no

Note that wherever possible the syllable divides rigth after the vowel, as with the second syllables of:

pas-sa-no; can-no-li

A ca-pel-lo is a hair; a cap-pel-lo is a cape.

The difference is audible.

SC followed by e or i is "shh"; SC followed by a, o, u is "sk":

sciopero, prosciutto = shh
scala, scopo, scusare = sk

rbrazill

I think it has been noted before, but the double consonant pronounciation is particularly important when ordering penne.

KT

...or discussing somebody's age (e.g., "Quanti anni ha?&quot.

lexie

Mamma mia! I'm trying to improve my Italian and my head is spinning!! Actually this thread has been very educational and has pointed out some very obvious errors. I agree with you cmt, the "experts" should get it straight! My ancestors would be very proud of you for taking them to task!!

KT

Panini and cannoli, indeed.

But wouldn't it sound weird to hear somebody say "Those spaghetti were delicious"?