valles

We (2 couples) are planning our first ever European trip and are going to southern Germany the first 2 weeks in July. Yes, I know it's the World Cup and Mozart's 200th anniversary. It's just my luck--like when we took our young family to Disney World during Gay Days. We had a wonderful time, so I'm expecting the same here!

Here is our 14-day itinerary: Land Frankfurt, 2 nights Bacharach; 2 nights Reutte with car reserved through hotel; 3 nights Salzburg; 1 night Hallstatt; 2 nights Augsburg (friends here); Dachau on way to 2 nights Rothenburg; Wurzburg on way to 1 night Frankfurt and depart for home.

We are planning to do the entire trip by rail. We are carrying all of our luggage on our backs. (We're in the 55-60 age range!)
Does all of this seem reasonable?
Will we be spending too much time on trains?
Are the train changes easy?
What web site gives the best train ticket advice and which one is the best place to buy the tickets? I've tried railsaver.com. Is that reliable for ticket suggestions?
How will not having a car limit our sightseeing?
Should we rent a car in Salzburg? (I've asked that question before, but would appreciate more input.)

I love reading everyone's questions and answers. I hope you all have some good advice for me! Thanks in advance.

bettyk

Unless you plan to do a day trip from Salzburg, I think 2 nights is enough IMHO. Also, as much as I love staying in Hallstatt, you could do that as a day trip from Salzburg to avoid having to change hotels for just 1 night.

valles

Thanks for the input. I can see your point, but I can't figure out what IMHO means. International Mozart ??????

Lostmymind

Sounds great to me i just took a similar trip (look up my post and take a look at my blog http://whereintheworldisalex.blogspot.com/). The only thing i would add is to pack less then you think you would need, i packed too much. I loved traveling on the train it was great. IMHO= im my humble opinion.

RufusTFirefly

I'm not a guy who likes to drive much, but we rented a car for the last 8 days of our trip to Germany, and we are so glad that we did. The first week we were in Bamberg and Munich--places where a car wouldn't help us very much (and would actually be an inconvenience), so we used the trains for that portion of the trip.

You aren't traveling to any huge cities where having a car would be a terrible problem. And there are many nice places to stop in the areas through which you will traveling that would be more difficult if traveling by train.

Driving in Germany and Austria was much easier than I thought it would be, and it's easier logistically for 4 people to pile into the car and head off than getting to and from train stations. Among the 4 of you, there should be at least one who would make a good navigator.

You could take the train to Bacharach, and rent a car for the rest of the trip. I'd drop the car in Wuerzburg (if your flight out of FRA isn't too early) and take a train to the airport the next morning--takes less than 1-1/2 hours to the airport. Otherwise, drop the car at FRA.

Sue_xx_yy

valles - go to www.bahn.de for train times and prices. It's the German rail site, but you will find it incorporates schedules for other European countries as well (but prices will be given on-line only for journeys within Germany).

When using bahn.de, pay particular attention to the trips Bacharach-Reutte, and Hallstatt - Augsburg, Augsburg-Munich-Rothenburg. These are the ones that struck me as a little long, although you might be more patient than I am! Note that if you wish to do Hallstatt as a daytrip from Salzburg, a car rental or perhaps a private van tour would be well worth the investment. Hallstatt is on a rather sleepy train spur off the Salzburg-Vienna line. It's about 3 hours journey from Salzburg, plus the little ferry ride from the train station.

Any special reason why you don't want to rent a car for the entire trip?

aggiemom

My mom and I did a trip in May using the train. We did:

Open jaw Amsterdam-Munich
2 nights Amsterdam
2 nights Beilstein (Mosel area)
1 night Rothenburg
3 nights Munich with a day trip to Salzburg by tour bus.

We spent a LOT of time on the train! Too much, although the trains are excellent and the scenery is beautiful.

For example, the ride from Beilstein to Rothenburg required three or four train changes. Lots of handling luggage which got heavier by the moment!

Anyway. I agree that maybe Hallstatt would be better as a day trip. Check also to see how many train changes involved with Bacharach to Reutte trip. Are you driving from Reutte to Salzburg?

The trip is doable but I'd spend less time moving and more time enjoying.

Just my personal opinion. I need at least three nights in one place to feel good.

aggiemom

PS: The trains are really well marked. On the platforms, there is a handy diagram of the train which shows which cars are First Class, Second, Food, etc. It also shows which way the train comes into the station.

I would definitely do the train thing again. It's only the amount of changes that got difficult for Mom and me (ages 78 and 48), people were great at helping Mom with her luggage and putting it up and taking it off.

Remember, too: YOU Have to open the door of the train at your stop. The doors do NOT open automatically! (We found that out the hard waY!)

Have a great adventure! I know you want to see everything as it's your first trip. But don't try too much or you'll be too exhausted to care.

freiamaya

Hi there!
I lived in Germany for several years a while back, and did your post bring back some memories! Don't worry about driving in Germany -- it is very orderly, and well signed. I personally would drive instead of train -- you aren't tied down to train schedules and will have more freedom to wander through the countryside and stop where ever catches your fancy. That being said, the German train system is highly efficient and reliable, so don't worry about train switches, etc. Have a great time!

Intrepid1

It is all doable and I would NOT buy tickets in advance but rather point to point tickets once you get there..unless you are all planning to travel together and thinking of using rail passes.

I would NOT rent a car for Salzburg itself...not needed IMO; old town is easily walkable and the old town will be the part you'll be most interested in; good public transport available to other sections including Schloss Hellbrun, etc.

If you have never been to these places before not having a car will not limit your sightseeing significantly IMO in Salzburg but what are your plans for the area around Bacharach???

valles

I really appreciate all the insights. In Bacharach we plan to float up river to St. Goar, then take the train or boat back. We planned our trip based on Rick Steves' Europe Through the Back Door. I hope by trying to avoid the tourist traps and find cheaper accomodations, we're not going too far off the beaten path. We have our lodging all arranged, mostly in B & B's or pensions (I'm not sure what the difference is). We're averaging about $75/couple a night for that part of the trip.
The reason we're not driving is the stories we've heard of 10 hour backups on the autobahn during the summer. Maybe we should rethink that or strike a balance between train and car, as RufusTFirefly suggested.

bettyk

You make a good point about the autobahn in July. It could be a mess in some places, especially because of the add'l world cup travelers.

I just received an email from a Gemut.com, a German travel company, warning that there could be a shortage of certain cars in Germany this summer due to the increased demand. We usually travel in May and haven't had too much problem with road construction or other traffic backups.

If that is a real concern, then I would closely check the train schedules and modify my itinerary accordingly. I couldn't see myself making 3 train changes to get anywhere!! There are so many fabulous "smaller" towns in Germany that you can't go wrong.

If you would like to see images of a certain town, go to www.google.com and click on Images and enter the town's name. You can also get photos and tourist info (albeit many times in German) from a town's own website. Just go to www.townname.de.

Hope this helps.

bettyk

Just one more comment about Rick Steves' book. Rick has left out so many fabulous places in his book that it's a shame people follow it like a Bible sometimes.

In May, we visited Bad Wimpfen, Schwaebisch Hall, Iphofen, Dettelbach, and Karlstadt -- all fabulous small towns in Germany -- that never get a mention in Rick Steves or many other travel books. Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith and do as much research as you can on your own.

bobthenavigator

Great trip if you had a car--why not?

valles

With the comments we're getting, we're sort of being persauded toward the car idea. If we arranged for a car, say beginning in Bacharach (can you pick up a car in small towns?) then decided it was too much hassle, could we just turn it in early without penalty? Can we reserve a car now while we're still making up our minds, then cancel without penalty? Can you get from place to place in Germany without getting on the autobahn, like taking the backroads in Iowa where I live?

bettyk

Look at www.gemut.com. People here swear by their rates and service. Also check out www.autoeurope.com. We used them for our trip in May and were pleased. With either of these two, you can cancel the car without penalty if you change your mind.

I don't think there is a rental car pick up in Bacharach, but there is definitely one at Frankfurt Airport and it is NOT difficult at all because the airport is away from the city center. Yes, there are several autobahns but the signage is good and the car company can also help you. One thing that we did was get explicit point to point driving directions from www.viamichelin.com for all of our travel segments. With a good map and a compass, you should be in good shape.

And you don't have to travel everywhere on the autobahns. Just be sure you have that good map with you.

Snoopy

IMHO (In My Humble Opinion)

1) Summer train travel in Europe can be a pain in the rear. Depending on the class you travel in, it may be difficult if not impossible for the 4 of you to get seats close together.

2) You say you have your accommodations arranged. If they are close to the train station (where you might be able to walk and avoid having to take a cab or bus ) they will be more expensive. If they are further from the train station than you'll want to walk, you'll need a cab. That adds expense to your trip.

3) From looking at your itinerary, you wouldn't be on the autobahn much until you leave Salzburg . . . and, depending on the route you take to Augsburg, perhaps not at all.

4) Obviously, you come and go when you want with a car.

5) You can find detailed road maps of every city you mention on the internet.

6) I'm 51. I don't want to schlepp a back pack around for 2 weeks and I'm actually in pretty good shape. Typically, my wife and I pack a couple of large suit cases, and leave them in the trunk of the car for most of the trip, just getting things out of them as we need.

As transportation goes, you can't beat a car. That said, a train can be part of the vacation in and of itself. It's fun and adventurous. But I've had that adventure.

Have fun!!

valles

Now that we're leaning toward car instead of train, I'm wondering about the price of gas in Germany and Austria. I read earlier that it was $4/gal in Austria. Is that right, and what about Germany?

bettyk

That's probably about right. Gasoline is slightly cheaper in Austria than in Germany. However, European cars in general get much better gas mileage than what we are use to in the US. And distances aren't that great. We traveled from Frankfurt to the Mosel River area down to Innsbruck then back up to Frankfurt over a 2-week period and only spent a little over $250 for gasoline. If possible, get a car that uses diesel. Again, unlike in the US, diesel is cheaper in Europe than unleaded.

Usually, with 4 people traveling, the cost of driving will be no greater and probably cheaper than the train.