Padraig

bozama wrote: "Chruches are not public property"

In France, some of them are. They have been taken into public ownership and the state bears the brunt of the costs of upkeep. I do not think, however, that this arrangement gives members of the public (particularly the non-French public who pay their taxes to another state) the right to behave like boors.

One believer at prayer outranks a thousand tourists.

Gary_Mc

If the shoulder is obscene, why not the elbow. If the elbow why not the wrist. If the knee, why not the ankle. If the rules are just arbitrary, why not flaunt them when you can. If a woman wants to wear a burka, her right. If a religion wants to force my wife to wear a burka, hopefully I would learn how to resist.

Respectfully, Gary

Proenza_Preschooler

Gary, that is ridiculous.

If you were a CPA working for a big company in NYC, how do you think your boss would react if you came to your job in a Speedo?

Many places have dress codes--work, schools, hospitals, the military, etc.

How are churches any different?

Your post, Gary, reminds me of some of the 9th grade girls I used to teach. They just couldn't understand
why they couldn't wear a bikini top to English class.

This isn't about religion, it is about appropriate attire.

Thingorjus

nytraveler

Some churches officially enforce the rules. Others do it unofficially - as in the local elderly ladies may make nasty comments about how disrespectful you are (they won't say the word they're really thinking).

Why insist on dressing in a way people find offensive in a house of worship? You can wear skirts or Capris and a tee shirt with short sleeves.

If being able to wear skimpy clothing is more important to you - don't go into the churches.

LoveItaly

I agree 100% with Thin's and NYTraveler's posts. It is so easy and simple to dress appropriately and show respect when entering places of worship.

Gary_Mc

Bikinis are no more ridiculous than burkas. Rules about dress are often not about reason. Resisting unreasonableness is good.

Regards, Gary

PalenQ

Well i have a different take since i am a non-believer so i would wear whatever i want into a cathedral, of course unless it weren against civic law much, as i would on the square outside the church

i agree church can dictate attire to enter - it's their property but if no rules posted then why not go in withi what i'd wear outside the door?

Really i don't think God, if real, a huge and improbable leap of faith IMO, would oppose anyone in any clothing, even none, coming into His/Her sanctuary. Right - why would he/she? Tell me why?

Why are the arms and legs of a body and uncovered women's hair sacreligious? (Why not men's hair?) Is this really based in the Scripture?

It's really Talibanesque to me to say what you wear on the street is indecent in a church - BUT of course if the church who owns the building dictates it that's their right to make a dress code, daft or not IMO then you must conform

but if not just wear what you would in the street - why would God care? A serious question

Proenza_Preschooler

Gary, if you don't understand what would happen if a teenage girl wore a bikini to class, then you are obviously childless and your wife sleeps on the couch.

There are reasons for dress codes.

Want your local police officers to wear cut-offs and a wifebeater?

Thin

Gary_Mc

A teenage girl often makes more sense than a member of the fashion police. I would rather be liken to teenage girl. I do not dress skimpy at 62 just as I did not dress skimpy at 26. I merely do not look down my nose at those who do.

A story above tells about an old woman chasing a mini-skirt out of a church and calling the owner a whore. My sympathy surely goes to the mini-skirt.

It is a matter of balance. Balance rarely comes into the discussion here about dress.

Regards, Gary

Proenza_Preschooler

>Why are the arms and legs of a body and uncovered women's hair sacreligious? (Why not men's hair?) Is this really based in the Scripture?<

Catholic women don't have to cover their heads nor do they have to cover their arms and legs.

I think you are still living in 1959, Pal.

Thin

StCirq

Well, heck, why don't we all just get stark nekkid and drop in on churches and synagogues and temples and mosques, huh?

Honestly! It's just a simple matter or respect for a place of worship. So they have rules? It's not like it's a major hardship to comply! In fact, it's never a hardship to look nice, and it always amazes me that people - mainly Americans, but not always - seem to think their "comfort" is a God-given right and more important than the culture they are guests in, or that "comfort" somehow equates to sloppiness.

I don't care whether you believe in a deity or not. Other people do, and they built their places of worship and have certain requests of guests. It's damn simple.

caladrius

Ok, if you don't agree with the rules of a church... don't go in?


It's just being a good guest to be respectful of their "rules". Is it so hard to put on light pants or a long enough skirt?

Be a rebel, if you want, but you won't change the "rules" that way, especially when it's in a different country that you don't actually live in..


Now I want to look for skirts for summer...

bozama

Calidrius,, good points good post.

Why do some people place themselves and their desires over being polite and respectful of other traditions, cultures and rules.

...me first! me first! mine ! mine ! mine ! ... I don't wanna!!

Graziella5b

Hi Paen q, I find a little far fetched to say that any requirement of the Catholic church, to-day, might even have a remote "talibanesque" flavor.

Nikki

Bozama, Sainte Chapelle is not a functioning church. It is owned by the government and run as a museum. No services are held there.

Cowboy1968

This issue is not about the Catholic faith, but about respecting local customs.
In Catholic churches north of the Alps you will see a more "liberal" attitude towards what is considered proper attire.

But, as a North European Catholic, I would not feel comfortable wearing a tank top and shorts in an Italian or Spanish church. Not because God had an issue with shorts (how absurd is that anyway) - but because it does not respect the way of life of my neighbors South of the Alps.

After reading threads like this, and the zillions of absurd threads on tennis shoes and jeans, I am beginning to wonder if nowadays so many people are lacking any bit of common sense that they need a big billboard in front of every church, restaurant, or museum telling them what they should or should not do.

MissPrism

...I wonder why a similar service is not offered to women in Italy. Some enterprising local businesses could really clean up in Rome, Florence and Venice...

Actually, in Venice's St. Marks, they sell a shoulder cover to women who are not covered.
I am an unbeliever, but I respect local customs.
I must say that I am with Cowboy1968
on this one.

GSteed

Personal attire denotes a person's perceived image. She is 40-50 years old in red hot pants, five inch heels and a bikini top! She is 25 years old in a calf length skirt, white blouse and matching jacket. He is 50 years old, obese, in tight shorts, sleeveless T-shirt and a dirty baseball cap. He is 30 years old. Neat haircut, dark suit, white shirt, matching tie and shined shoes. Self image??? Who do you want next to you in your church?

ira

>...why any reasonable deity would be so offended by knees and shoulders. Given we are made in his/her image. or perhaps not.

A: It is not for we mortals to decide what is reasonable in a deity.

B: It has more to do with cultural mores than theology.

C: When in Rome....
.....................................
>If the rules are just arbitrary, why not flaunt them when you can.

I would never flaunt a rule, although on occasion, I have flouted them.
..............................
>.... i am a non-believer so i would wear whatever i want into a cathedral,< and the like.

My, we do have a group of self-indulgent narcissists here.

annhig

<<annhig wrote: "what bemuses me, though, is why any reasonable deity would be so offended by knees and shoulders."

I don't think it is a matter of God being offended; it's a concern that those who should be worshipping God might be distracted by salacious thoughts.>>

no-one, but no-one could be induced to think salacious thoughts by my husband's knees - not even me.



regards, ann