Ireland / Scotland no car
Jun 14th, 2006 | 08:29 AM
#1
Original Poster
Joined: Jun 2006
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Ireland / Scotland no car
Is it feasible to plan a trip to these areas without renting a car? A car is absolutely not an option for us. How easy would it be to get around using public transportation (bus / train) or should we consider an organized tour? We are in our early 30's and our interests lie mainly with castles / history. Also what areas and sights should we focus on? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Jun 14th, 2006 | 09:39 AM
#2
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 75,014
Likes: 50
It mostly depends on where you want to visit. In both countries, rural and remote areas are not well served by train or bus. But a decent itinerary can be worked out w/o a car - especially in Scotland.
How long do you have? Unless three weeks or more I would not try to visit both countries. Especially when you need to rely on local buses, it will take longer to get from place to place.
So tell us how long and what month and we can help a lot . . . . .
How long do you have? Unless three weeks or more I would not try to visit both countries. Especially when you need to rely on local buses, it will take longer to get from place to place.
So tell us how long and what month and we can help a lot . . . . .
Jun 14th, 2006 | 09:48 AM
#3
Joined: Jan 2005
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Some years ago, I took buses around Ireland and Scotland. Things might have changed now, but back when I did it, Ireland's national bus system was quite extensive, and when I went back in 1998, it seemed even more so.
http://www.buseireann.ie
I was able to take a post bus once to a place that didn't go where the bus went.
It was a little harder to get around Scotland by bus, because there are several competing lines, but I managed to cover a lot of ground. You just have to plan your routes carefully. Again, my info is very old (1992/93), so you'll want to do some research. Back when I did it, there were two main bus companies operating in Scotland, but I can't remember their names. A Let's Go or other guidebook that caters to backpackers should have some good information for you.
http://www.buseireann.ie
I was able to take a post bus once to a place that didn't go where the bus went.
It was a little harder to get around Scotland by bus, because there are several competing lines, but I managed to cover a lot of ground. You just have to plan your routes carefully. Again, my info is very old (1992/93), so you'll want to do some research. Back when I did it, there were two main bus companies operating in Scotland, but I can't remember their names. A Let's Go or other guidebook that caters to backpackers should have some good information for you.
Jun 14th, 2006 | 10:01 AM
#4
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,134
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Public transportation limits your flexability, but it also has a couple of advantages. We used the trains in Scotland to get from Glasgow to Thurso on the northeast coast,traveled back to Skye for a few days before heading back to Glasgow and onto Edinburgh.So for Scotland I think it's quite doable.
I'm not that knowledgable about Ireland. I know that there are several good bus tours available out of Dublin. There is train srvice to the norh coast and as well as most of the major towns.
I suggest you get a train schedule for both places and refer to it in planning your itineary. It's much easier to know where you can actually get to before deciding where you want to go.
The Rough Guides and Lonely Planet give good information on trains/buses.
Check out Scot Rail for the Highlnds and National Rail.
www.scotrail.co.uk
www.nationalrail.co.uk
Another good source for trains and buses is www.travelinescotland.com
For North Antrim coast bus service www.translink.co.uk
For ferry from Scotland to/from Ireland www.poirishsea.com
As far as suggesting areas with castles/history, you'll find them at almost anyplace in either country.
I'm not that knowledgable about Ireland. I know that there are several good bus tours available out of Dublin. There is train srvice to the norh coast and as well as most of the major towns.
I suggest you get a train schedule for both places and refer to it in planning your itineary. It's much easier to know where you can actually get to before deciding where you want to go.
The Rough Guides and Lonely Planet give good information on trains/buses.
Check out Scot Rail for the Highlnds and National Rail.
www.scotrail.co.uk
www.nationalrail.co.uk
Another good source for trains and buses is www.travelinescotland.com
For North Antrim coast bus service www.translink.co.uk
For ferry from Scotland to/from Ireland www.poirishsea.com
As far as suggesting areas with castles/history, you'll find them at almost anyplace in either country.
Jun 15th, 2006 | 04:12 AM
#5
Original Poster
Joined: Jun 2006
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Here is a little more info. We are planning to go in september either this year or next and for about 1 week or 2. No one seems to be suggesting an organized tour, are these that bad? We would probably prefer scotland, any ideas on a basic itinerary? Thanks again for the replies.
Jun 15th, 2006 | 10:55 AM
#7
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 626
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Blister, I actually took a three small (half day) organized tours in Scotland. One was from Oban to the sacred isle of Iona. You have to take 2 ferries and a bus because the large island of Mull is between them, and I'd heard that it was just easier to take a tour. Doing the tour did make it easy, but I ended up with only an hour or two on Iona, when I would have liked more time.
The second tour I took was a half-day tour out of Inverness. We were bussed to the shores of Loch Ness, where we took a cruise of the Loch (this part was a lot of fun) and were dropped off at Urquhart Castle. We explored the castle a bit and then visited the Official Loch Ness Exhibition Centre at Drumnadrochit. Again, I didn't get quite enough time at the castle, and I think I ended up taking a public bus back down there that same afternoon.
The third tour I took was in the Orkney Islands. It was a bus tour of all the ruins - the Standing Stones of Steness, The Ring of Brodegar, the prehistoric village of Skara Brae, Orphir Church, and Maes Howe. I believe the bus tour was really the only way to see these sites without a car. This was the only tour where I didn't feel the need to return to the sites on my own because I didn't get enough time at each of them.
I guess my bus tour experiences were a mixed bag, but on the whole they weren't a bad way to see the sights on a fixed budget. I don't think an all-inclusive tour would have saved me any money at the time, because I was traveling with a student ID, so I got discounts on transportation and I stayed in youth hostels.
You can see my photos from this trip here: http://tinyurl.com/nqkp3
The second tour I took was a half-day tour out of Inverness. We were bussed to the shores of Loch Ness, where we took a cruise of the Loch (this part was a lot of fun) and were dropped off at Urquhart Castle. We explored the castle a bit and then visited the Official Loch Ness Exhibition Centre at Drumnadrochit. Again, I didn't get quite enough time at the castle, and I think I ended up taking a public bus back down there that same afternoon.
The third tour I took was in the Orkney Islands. It was a bus tour of all the ruins - the Standing Stones of Steness, The Ring of Brodegar, the prehistoric village of Skara Brae, Orphir Church, and Maes Howe. I believe the bus tour was really the only way to see these sites without a car. This was the only tour where I didn't feel the need to return to the sites on my own because I didn't get enough time at each of them.
I guess my bus tour experiences were a mixed bag, but on the whole they weren't a bad way to see the sights on a fixed budget. I don't think an all-inclusive tour would have saved me any money at the time, because I was traveling with a student ID, so I got discounts on transportation and I stayed in youth hostels.
You can see my photos from this trip here: http://tinyurl.com/nqkp3
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Jun 15th, 2006 | 11:00 AM
#8
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,159
Likes: 0
1/ Day trips from Edinburgh on the train….
Perth is a former major route junction for the trains, and you will find lines from there to Edinburgh, Glasgow, via Stirling, Dundee and then Aberdeen, Inverness and all points between.
1(a) I would suggest a day in Stirling would be a good use of your time. The only problem is, it's a bit spread out, so you might need to use cabs a lot. Great castle; Wallace
Monument, Bannockburn; good shopping.
1(b) Another thought would be Pitlochry then back to Dunkeld (actually, on checking my guide I see that some (not all, so be careful) trains stop at Blair Atholl. On second thoughts miss out Pitlochry, which is an overrated tourist trap, and go on to Blair Atholl) Blair Atholl is a planned village and is very pretty in a slightly twee Victorian style, and it houses Blair Castle, home of the Dukes of Atholl and the Atholl Highlanders. V. Impressive in the grand style. I have no idea how you get from the station to the castle but it's only a mile.
On the way back south plan to stop at Dunkeld- station is Birnam, again about a mile from
Dunkeld proper.
The Cathedral is special, but so is the Square with its National Trust houses- the Little Houses. Some very good antique shops (never pay what they are asking)
Birnam is, of course, famous as being the place from which the wood came to Dunsinane in Macbeth. Dunsinane is just north of Perth on the Aberdeen Road.
1(c).Most of Perth's interest lies in its history- ancient capital of Scotland- and in its place in Scottish literature. Just north of Perth, 2 miles or so, is Scone Palace, worth a visit itself, which was the site where the kings and queens of Scotland were crowned, seated on the Stone of Destiny, (a good fake of) which you will no doubt have seen when you visited
Edinburgh castle.
The town's 12th century Church, St John's, is worth a visit. It contains the remains of an Earl of Perth who is supposed to have told the town's baillies "If you give me six feet, I'll give you twa Inches"- a reference to the two parks on either side of the old town, the North and South Inches (from the Gaelic Innis meaning meadow). In addition, it is where John Knox preached the destruction of the monasteries at the start of the Scottish reformation
Sir Walter Scott wrote a novel called "the Fair Maid of Perth" and her house and that of Hal o' the Wynd, can both be visited. This will tell you all about Clan Chattan and Clan Kay and the battle they fought (staged?) on the North Inch. Next to Hal o' the Wynd's house is the City Mills which has a restored oatmeal mill and some nice craft shops. The City Mills Hotel, which I think is now called the Stakis, is another converted Mill, done so the lade
can be seen flowing underneath.
If you walk along the Tay, you can see where the houses in the Watergate had their gardens which led down to the river, where Kate Barlass held off the soldiers come to
capture and kill the king.
The town has really good shopping centered around the High street and Old High Street. On the north edge of the town is the Caithness Glass factory where you can see the glass
being made and, of course, buy from the factory shop. Caithness has gone into receivership, (like Chapter 11) so you need to keep an eye on the situation before making
the trek out
There are a lot of nice walks.. along the river and through the North Inch, through the Norie Millar gardens on the north side of the river, Branklyn gardens on the north side of the river, Kinnoull hill with its folly, and, Buckie Braes and Callerfountain out towards the west.
Places to eat- Let's Eat is without doubt the best place in town, Patrick’s is a bistro behind the Sherriff Court (which is on Tay Street), which is quite good, and Littlejohns, Paco's and the Filling station, are all cheap and cheerful.
The Willows tea room in St John's Square is very good for coffee/tea and cakes and things.
1(d) Go up the coast as far as Arbroath, which is a traditional fishing town, famous for its "smokies", and its cathedral, which is where the Declaration of Arbroath was signed in 1320. "For so long as a hundred of us remain alive, we will yield in no least way to English
dominion" and all that.
Stop (if you want) at Carnoustie a couple of miles down the coast.. smaller and more of a 1920s tourist place, but famous for its golf course. The course is owned by the Council
and is remarkably cheap to play..
If you are rash enough to get off the train in Dundee (armpit of the Universe; am I making myself plain?) there's not much of quality to see or do. There is a very good visitor centre (the Discovery Centre) near the station, which interprets Captain Scott's voyages to the Antarctic, and his ship, the Discovery ,is moored alongside, so you can visit. Nearby is the Unicorn, a Dundee Whaler, which is also open to the public. There are people who
actually like Dundee but they are few and far between.
As an alternative to going up the coast from Dundee, you could change there and get the train to Leuchars, 6 miles from St Andrews. Buses leave Leuchars for St Andrews every
half hour (not Sundays)
Perth is a former major route junction for the trains, and you will find lines from there to Edinburgh, Glasgow, via Stirling, Dundee and then Aberdeen, Inverness and all points between.
1(a) I would suggest a day in Stirling would be a good use of your time. The only problem is, it's a bit spread out, so you might need to use cabs a lot. Great castle; Wallace
Monument, Bannockburn; good shopping.
1(b) Another thought would be Pitlochry then back to Dunkeld (actually, on checking my guide I see that some (not all, so be careful) trains stop at Blair Atholl. On second thoughts miss out Pitlochry, which is an overrated tourist trap, and go on to Blair Atholl) Blair Atholl is a planned village and is very pretty in a slightly twee Victorian style, and it houses Blair Castle, home of the Dukes of Atholl and the Atholl Highlanders. V. Impressive in the grand style. I have no idea how you get from the station to the castle but it's only a mile.
On the way back south plan to stop at Dunkeld- station is Birnam, again about a mile from
Dunkeld proper.
The Cathedral is special, but so is the Square with its National Trust houses- the Little Houses. Some very good antique shops (never pay what they are asking)
Birnam is, of course, famous as being the place from which the wood came to Dunsinane in Macbeth. Dunsinane is just north of Perth on the Aberdeen Road.
1(c).Most of Perth's interest lies in its history- ancient capital of Scotland- and in its place in Scottish literature. Just north of Perth, 2 miles or so, is Scone Palace, worth a visit itself, which was the site where the kings and queens of Scotland were crowned, seated on the Stone of Destiny, (a good fake of) which you will no doubt have seen when you visited
Edinburgh castle.
The town's 12th century Church, St John's, is worth a visit. It contains the remains of an Earl of Perth who is supposed to have told the town's baillies "If you give me six feet, I'll give you twa Inches"- a reference to the two parks on either side of the old town, the North and South Inches (from the Gaelic Innis meaning meadow). In addition, it is where John Knox preached the destruction of the monasteries at the start of the Scottish reformation
Sir Walter Scott wrote a novel called "the Fair Maid of Perth" and her house and that of Hal o' the Wynd, can both be visited. This will tell you all about Clan Chattan and Clan Kay and the battle they fought (staged?) on the North Inch. Next to Hal o' the Wynd's house is the City Mills which has a restored oatmeal mill and some nice craft shops. The City Mills Hotel, which I think is now called the Stakis, is another converted Mill, done so the lade
can be seen flowing underneath.
If you walk along the Tay, you can see where the houses in the Watergate had their gardens which led down to the river, where Kate Barlass held off the soldiers come to
capture and kill the king.
The town has really good shopping centered around the High street and Old High Street. On the north edge of the town is the Caithness Glass factory where you can see the glass
being made and, of course, buy from the factory shop. Caithness has gone into receivership, (like Chapter 11) so you need to keep an eye on the situation before making
the trek out
There are a lot of nice walks.. along the river and through the North Inch, through the Norie Millar gardens on the north side of the river, Branklyn gardens on the north side of the river, Kinnoull hill with its folly, and, Buckie Braes and Callerfountain out towards the west.
Places to eat- Let's Eat is without doubt the best place in town, Patrick’s is a bistro behind the Sherriff Court (which is on Tay Street), which is quite good, and Littlejohns, Paco's and the Filling station, are all cheap and cheerful.
The Willows tea room in St John's Square is very good for coffee/tea and cakes and things.
1(d) Go up the coast as far as Arbroath, which is a traditional fishing town, famous for its "smokies", and its cathedral, which is where the Declaration of Arbroath was signed in 1320. "For so long as a hundred of us remain alive, we will yield in no least way to English
dominion" and all that.
Stop (if you want) at Carnoustie a couple of miles down the coast.. smaller and more of a 1920s tourist place, but famous for its golf course. The course is owned by the Council
and is remarkably cheap to play..
If you are rash enough to get off the train in Dundee (armpit of the Universe; am I making myself plain?) there's not much of quality to see or do. There is a very good visitor centre (the Discovery Centre) near the station, which interprets Captain Scott's voyages to the Antarctic, and his ship, the Discovery ,is moored alongside, so you can visit. Nearby is the Unicorn, a Dundee Whaler, which is also open to the public. There are people who
actually like Dundee but they are few and far between.
As an alternative to going up the coast from Dundee, you could change there and get the train to Leuchars, 6 miles from St Andrews. Buses leave Leuchars for St Andrews every
half hour (not Sundays)
Jun 15th, 2006 | 12:42 PM
#9
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,159
Likes: 0
Walk through the new town with a proper guide to how it was all done.(free except for cost of book- probably somewhere on the web)
Visit Valvona & Crolla which is probably the best Italian deli inBritain (worth it for the experience even if you don't spend anything)
Visit the Royal Mile (free) and go to St Giles's Cathedral (free) and Parliament House (free) and John Knox House (£1.95)and the Castle (£6 including commentary)and appreciate the Stone of Destiny and the buried
tenement (Mary King’s Close- charge but I don't know how much)
Visit the Scotch whisky place (bit commercial; I wouldn’t)
Go to Deacon Brodie's pub and understand why it's called that (free except for the drink)
Eat in the Grassmarket and shop in Victoria Street
Go to the Royal Museum (free)
Visit Arthur's seat (free)
Visit Holyrood Park (free)
Go and see Greyfriars Bobby and read the story (free except the book)
Go to the Royal Scottish Academy (free except for special exhibitions) and the National Gallery of Scotland next door- (free)
Drink at Sandy Bell's pub where they play live folk music.
Eat at Viva Mexico and Cafe Vittorio and the Kalpna
Climb the Scott monument
Train to Pitlochry
The only distillery worth looking at in Pitlochry is Edradour. The salmon ladder is interesting and the scenery around there is good, although Pitlochry is a bit of a tourist trap.
Train on up to Inverness.
Rent a car in Inverness and drive to see sights like Culloden Moor, Cawdor Castle,and then drive down along the east side of Loch Ness, drive to Isle of Skye .Stay in Portree. Stop at Plockton on the way to Kyle of Lochalsh. Take as much time on Skye as you can. Take the ferry off to Mallaig and drive back to Oban via Morar, Arisaig and Fort William
If you wanted to give yourselves one good night, stay at the Pierhouse at Port Appin and have a really good seafood meal.
Train to Glasgow.
Visit Valvona & Crolla which is probably the best Italian deli inBritain (worth it for the experience even if you don't spend anything)
Visit the Royal Mile (free) and go to St Giles's Cathedral (free) and Parliament House (free) and John Knox House (£1.95)and the Castle (£6 including commentary)and appreciate the Stone of Destiny and the buried
tenement (Mary King’s Close- charge but I don't know how much)
Visit the Scotch whisky place (bit commercial; I wouldn’t)
Go to Deacon Brodie's pub and understand why it's called that (free except for the drink)
Eat in the Grassmarket and shop in Victoria Street
Go to the Royal Museum (free)
Visit Arthur's seat (free)
Visit Holyrood Park (free)
Go and see Greyfriars Bobby and read the story (free except the book)
Go to the Royal Scottish Academy (free except for special exhibitions) and the National Gallery of Scotland next door- (free)
Drink at Sandy Bell's pub where they play live folk music.
Eat at Viva Mexico and Cafe Vittorio and the Kalpna
Climb the Scott monument
Train to Pitlochry
The only distillery worth looking at in Pitlochry is Edradour. The salmon ladder is interesting and the scenery around there is good, although Pitlochry is a bit of a tourist trap.
Train on up to Inverness.
Rent a car in Inverness and drive to see sights like Culloden Moor, Cawdor Castle,and then drive down along the east side of Loch Ness, drive to Isle of Skye .Stay in Portree. Stop at Plockton on the way to Kyle of Lochalsh. Take as much time on Skye as you can. Take the ferry off to Mallaig and drive back to Oban via Morar, Arisaig and Fort William
If you wanted to give yourselves one good night, stay at the Pierhouse at Port Appin and have a really good seafood meal.
Train to Glasgow.
Jun 29th, 2006 | 07:31 PM
#10
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
IMO a car is not needed for Scotland since the train goes pretty much everywhere and you can take the local bus/cab where the train doesn't go. Renting a car is also more expensive in Scotland than Ireland I found.
As for Ireland, I'd only rent a car if I were planning to go into the country and was short on time. But if you plan to hit the major cities/towns you don't need to rent a car.
Ireland has an amazing history and I loved the castles...mind you, you won't find too many castles in the city...I rented a car. The history/musuem/beauty was what made my trip to Ireland so memorable.
You maybe able to hook up with somene who will give you a ride.
As for Ireland, I'd only rent a car if I were planning to go into the country and was short on time. But if you plan to hit the major cities/towns you don't need to rent a car.
Ireland has an amazing history and I loved the castles...mind you, you won't find too many castles in the city...I rented a car. The history/musuem/beauty was what made my trip to Ireland so memorable.
You maybe able to hook up with somene who will give you a ride.
Jun 29th, 2006 | 07:55 PM
#11
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 75,014
Likes: 50
oceania: I'm not sure about your comparison. There aren't many castles in Scotland on rail lines either.
Sure - Edinburgh, Stirling and some others are easy to get to by train. But the majority are in rural areas w/o rail service. And a problem w/ touring by train - you are pretty much limited to point to point travel w/o stops enroute to sightsee. There aren't any left luggage facilities/lockers in most train stations so you have to carry everything w/ you. Can't get off a train to visit a castle/garden/village and then get on another train to your final destination unless you want to drag everything w/ you.
Having said all that - you can work out a reasonable itinerary using trains/buses - just not much off the beaten path.
Sure - Edinburgh, Stirling and some others are easy to get to by train. But the majority are in rural areas w/o rail service. And a problem w/ touring by train - you are pretty much limited to point to point travel w/o stops enroute to sightsee. There aren't any left luggage facilities/lockers in most train stations so you have to carry everything w/ you. Can't get off a train to visit a castle/garden/village and then get on another train to your final destination unless you want to drag everything w/ you.
Having said all that - you can work out a reasonable itinerary using trains/buses - just not much off the beaten path.
