iPhone stolen in Paris
Aug 28th, 2012, 04:22 PM
#82
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And if they had not been working on their laptops--and if Starbucks had not had free wi-fi--their laptops would not have been stolen.
Heck, ignore the fact that there are decent, hardworking people who depend on Starbucks WiFi for their living or for student term papers.
And while we're at it, let's make sure we cover all possible victims who are stupid enough to live...
...If I wasn't walking down the street, the car with the drunk driver would not have run up on the curb and hit me.
...If I hadn't eaten the food in the restaurant, I would not have gotten food poisoning.
...If I hadn't been waiting for the subway, no one could have pushed me on to the tracks.
Bless you 00 and PalenQ and others for creating a "reality check" about civility that is often so lacking, as exemplified by some really unnecessary hostile comments.
To the OP and those who shared their experiences in hopes that other travelers would not be victimized, thank you. I hope you are not discouraged from further helpful postings. There are a lot of really nice people on this board who value facts and good intentions.
Heck, ignore the fact that there are decent, hardworking people who depend on Starbucks WiFi for their living or for student term papers.
And while we're at it, let's make sure we cover all possible victims who are stupid enough to live...
...If I wasn't walking down the street, the car with the drunk driver would not have run up on the curb and hit me.
...If I hadn't eaten the food in the restaurant, I would not have gotten food poisoning.
...If I hadn't been waiting for the subway, no one could have pushed me on to the tracks.
Bless you 00 and PalenQ and others for creating a "reality check" about civility that is often so lacking, as exemplified by some really unnecessary hostile comments.
To the OP and those who shared their experiences in hopes that other travelers would not be victimized, thank you. I hope you are not discouraged from further helpful postings. There are a lot of really nice people on this board who value facts and good intentions.
Aug 28th, 2012, 07:07 PM
#83
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You guys are mixing up abunch of different stories. The OPS daughter was not assaulted. She was distracted and had her phone stolen off the table. Simple.
Then some others chimed in with other tales.
And as clearly said, the warning was one thing, the ranting about how unsafe Paris is was another. Its safer then most cities of its size.
Then some others chimed in with other tales.
And as clearly said, the warning was one thing, the ranting about how unsafe Paris is was another. Its safer then most cities of its size.
Aug 29th, 2012, 06:18 AM
#84
The OP said it herself. I thought that was the point of the story:
<Just wanted to warn you to keep your phone in your hands or purse at all times.>
Years ago someone posted here about their purse being stolen in a train station, they had set it on top of their suitcase, got distracted by something, turned away, came back and it was gone.
Or the ever-popular hanging your purse over the back of a chair in an outdoor cafe.
These are not the same as getting physically assaulted or exaggerated examples of misfortunate like someone pushing you on to the metro tracks or getting run over by a drunk driver.
These are all when your lack of attention gave a crook a chance to take advantage of the situation.
<Just wanted to warn you to keep your phone in your hands or purse at all times.>
Years ago someone posted here about their purse being stolen in a train station, they had set it on top of their suitcase, got distracted by something, turned away, came back and it was gone.
Or the ever-popular hanging your purse over the back of a chair in an outdoor cafe.
These are not the same as getting physically assaulted or exaggerated examples of misfortunate like someone pushing you on to the metro tracks or getting run over by a drunk driver.
These are all when your lack of attention gave a crook a chance to take advantage of the situation.
Aug 29th, 2012, 08:21 AM
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And as clearly said, the warning was one thing, the ranting about how unsafe Paris is was another. Its safer then most cities of its size.>
I've been to Paris many times - hundreds of times and I disagree with Paris being about the same safety wise as other cities. There have been countless posts here of scams and thefts - lots of scams with watches being sold, etc.
German cities have little of this problem IME
Austrian cities have little problem
Swiss cities have nearly none IME
Even British cities - even London IME has much less of a problem
Scandinavia cities have little problem
French cities outside Paris have little problem
Paris IME does have more of a problem than many large cities - why - IMO because so so many tourists come here - naive tourists often who are easy prey - certain types may flock here from other countries to take advantage of the huge number of tourists.
Only Spain and Italy IME have more of a problem - Spain by far with Madrid and Barcelona even having lots of muggings - rare in Paris or elsewhere - a true mugging American style.
You should be careful everywhere IMO but more vigilant in Paris - I have seen pickpockets running up before the automatic gates letting folks into the metro and putting their hands in bags - the tourist thinks the guy is just trying to get a free ride on the metro by squeezing thru at the same time - and now an onslaught of reports of thefts of I phones and similar devices from even inside places like Starbucks and MacDonalds - places I previously thought I was very safe...
Paris due to it being a tourist mecca presents IME and IMO may of a pickpocket and petty street crime thing than other cities do.
That's my take anyway!
I've been to Paris many times - hundreds of times and I disagree with Paris being about the same safety wise as other cities. There have been countless posts here of scams and thefts - lots of scams with watches being sold, etc.
German cities have little of this problem IME
Austrian cities have little problem
Swiss cities have nearly none IME
Even British cities - even London IME has much less of a problem
Scandinavia cities have little problem
French cities outside Paris have little problem
Paris IME does have more of a problem than many large cities - why - IMO because so so many tourists come here - naive tourists often who are easy prey - certain types may flock here from other countries to take advantage of the huge number of tourists.
Only Spain and Italy IME have more of a problem - Spain by far with Madrid and Barcelona even having lots of muggings - rare in Paris or elsewhere - a true mugging American style.
You should be careful everywhere IMO but more vigilant in Paris - I have seen pickpockets running up before the automatic gates letting folks into the metro and putting their hands in bags - the tourist thinks the guy is just trying to get a free ride on the metro by squeezing thru at the same time - and now an onslaught of reports of thefts of I phones and similar devices from even inside places like Starbucks and MacDonalds - places I previously thought I was very safe...
Paris due to it being a tourist mecca presents IME and IMO may of a pickpocket and petty street crime thing than other cities do.
That's my take anyway!
Aug 29th, 2012, 08:31 AM
#86
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I was referring to personal safety. You are personally safer in Paris then most large cities.. as a woman who has travelled solo I find it much safe then LA, Toronto, Vancouver , and frankly even my own city which has streets littered with crack heads( winos passed out here and there are not as nearly as scary as a crack head tweaking,, trust me on that unless you have personal experience with that! )
98% of pickpocketing incidents in Paris happen undiscovered till you reach for your wallet! Pickpockets usually operate by stealth, although they can occaisonally pull these aggressive distraction tactics.
Are pickpockets a problem in Paris, hell yeah, but they are MOSTLY avoidable problems if one is prepared and alert to the situations.
98% of pickpocketing incidents in Paris happen undiscovered till you reach for your wallet! Pickpockets usually operate by stealth, although they can occaisonally pull these aggressive distraction tactics.
Are pickpockets a problem in Paris, hell yeah, but they are MOSTLY avoidable problems if one is prepared and alert to the situations.
Aug 29th, 2012, 08:31 AM
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I was referring to personal safety. You are personally safer in Paris then most large cities.. as a woman who has travelled solo I find it much safe then LA, Toronto, Vancouver , and frankly even my own city which has streets littered with crack heads( winos passed out here and there are not as nearly as scary as a crack head tweaking,, trust me on that unless you have personal experience with that! )
98% of pickpocketing incidents in Paris happen undiscovered till you reach for your wallet! Pickpockets usually operate by stealth, although they can occaisonally pull these aggressive distraction tactics.
Are pickpockets a problem in Paris, hell yeah, but they are MOSTLY avoidable problems if one is prepared and alert to the situations.
98% of pickpocketing incidents in Paris happen undiscovered till you reach for your wallet! Pickpockets usually operate by stealth, although they can occaisonally pull these aggressive distraction tactics.
Are pickpockets a problem in Paris, hell yeah, but they are MOSTLY avoidable problems if one is prepared and alert to the situations.
Aug 29th, 2012, 08:34 AM
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Ok clarified with personal safety of your body I agree - Paris is safer than most American cities and about the same as most European cities apart from Spain - the unsafest cities in Europe being Barcelona and Madrid IME - by far - physically unsafe (and a close relative of mine got bruised and bloodied in Madrid!)
Aug 29th, 2012, 08:58 AM
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PalenQ - Am I missing something or did you use the phrase "rather autistic" to describe being unfeeling? On Aug 28th, at 11:56am? The post has obviously gotten tempers flaring, but given your objections to the unfeeling nature of the posts, I'm surprised you'd use that terminology. I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't call someone retarded, right? That's moved out of our collective language as appropriate. Autism goes well beyond a lack of feeling. With a stepson who will need lifelong care, who can't talk and can't be left alone, I find your wording surprising and offensive. And unfortunately, it demeans the message to start with.
Aug 29th, 2012, 09:04 AM
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PalenQ--
I think we are exactly on the same page on this issue:
--I don't think I'm going to be gunned down in the streets in Paris.
--I don't think someone is going to pull me into an alley and rape me.
But for others who have not experienced it to say that the approach by those teens on the bridge I encountered last fall (I'm a Paris diehard!)was not aggressive, it's not so. It was terribly aggressive.
This uptick in activity is relatively new. I really did believe I could avoid most instances of crime. If somoneone even started on one of the basic cons--the gold ring, etc--I'd just shake my head with a wry smile and they left me along.
I was totally shocked in November 2011 that it even occurred. Yeah, city girl that I am, my adrenaline went into overdrive and I dealt with the situation quickly (and I think I scared the heck out of the teens who attacked me)**, but part of me was thinking, "Paris? I'm experiencing this in Paris? MY Paris?"
In other words, if you think for one second this is not happening or that one is "superior" because it did not occur to you yet, you are the person who is naive.
Again--we're not talking your average pickpockets or cons. We're talking entire invasions of premises (Starbucks in more than a couple of Paris locations) and collective aggressive distractions (the bridge petition thing and the ATM phone/wallet surround theft).
It's really a shame. I hope Paris police can get a handle on it.
**I used to hike with my two little ones in US parks where grizzlies and mountain lions could pose threats. We used to practice acting "bigger", which is a suggested defense tactic. Find it funny that my instinctive reaction to these teens was to "swell". Of course, given my weight gain over the past 20 years, that was sort of easy.
I think we are exactly on the same page on this issue:
--I don't think I'm going to be gunned down in the streets in Paris.
--I don't think someone is going to pull me into an alley and rape me.
But for others who have not experienced it to say that the approach by those teens on the bridge I encountered last fall (I'm a Paris diehard!)was not aggressive, it's not so. It was terribly aggressive.
This uptick in activity is relatively new. I really did believe I could avoid most instances of crime. If somoneone even started on one of the basic cons--the gold ring, etc--I'd just shake my head with a wry smile and they left me along.
I was totally shocked in November 2011 that it even occurred. Yeah, city girl that I am, my adrenaline went into overdrive and I dealt with the situation quickly (and I think I scared the heck out of the teens who attacked me)**, but part of me was thinking, "Paris? I'm experiencing this in Paris? MY Paris?"
In other words, if you think for one second this is not happening or that one is "superior" because it did not occur to you yet, you are the person who is naive.
Again--we're not talking your average pickpockets or cons. We're talking entire invasions of premises (Starbucks in more than a couple of Paris locations) and collective aggressive distractions (the bridge petition thing and the ATM phone/wallet surround theft).
It's really a shame. I hope Paris police can get a handle on it.
**I used to hike with my two little ones in US parks where grizzlies and mountain lions could pose threats. We used to practice acting "bigger", which is a suggested defense tactic. Find it funny that my instinctive reaction to these teens was to "swell". Of course, given my weight gain over the past 20 years, that was sort of easy.
Aug 29th, 2012, 09:20 AM
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dunia - I understand your anger - and to me I think the word 'autistic' simply in this context refers to someone who cannot empathize with the victim and the horrible things that happened to her (the one blindsided by teens who put paper over her face and robbed her) - the poster said it was her careless fault, etc.
I in no way wanted to use Autistic - with a capital A in that case perhaps but I genuinely use the word 'autistic' to describe someone unable to show feelings for someone else - not referring to the disease - at least I did not think I was doing that
like I could say someone was kind of 'paranoid' without meaning they were a Paranoid Schizophrenic, etc.
So sorry about that and I will look up the generic word autism to make sure it does not automatically refer to Autism.
You have my apologies for any hurt I may have caused, without any intention to do so.
I in no way wanted to use Autistic - with a capital A in that case perhaps but I genuinely use the word 'autistic' to describe someone unable to show feelings for someone else - not referring to the disease - at least I did not think I was doing that
like I could say someone was kind of 'paranoid' without meaning they were a Paranoid Schizophrenic, etc.
So sorry about that and I will look up the generic word autism to make sure it does not automatically refer to Autism.
You have my apologies for any hurt I may have caused, without any intention to do so.
Aug 29th, 2012, 09:30 AM
#92
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dunia - a Washington Times columnist faced the same accusations and explains her use of autism like I do -
I use "autistic" because I don't see autism as an affliction but rather as a character or physical trait (such as blond, nice, intelligent or short) or as a major life characteristic (such as religion or race).>
Exactly the way I use the word and that I think is appropo to the poster above who said the victim was careless and to just don't leave home if they can't cope with being assaulted, etcd - an autistic stance that seems not to be able to relate what horror the victim went thru, etc.
Anyway thanks for bringing that to my attention so I can reconsider the use.
The full text of the Washington Times article:
SILVER SPRING, Md. — When I write here, I use the words "person with autism" and "autistic person" pretty interchangeably. Every once in a while, this column gets a comment telling me I should use "person first" language, meaning I shouldn't use the word "autistic" to describe a person.
Because I've heard this criticism more than once, I feel it necessary to tell you that I not only use the word "autistic" intentionally, but thoughtfully and with purpose.
The theory behind person-first language ("person with autism") is that it recognizes the person before the disability and stresses that there is more to a person than just autism. I asked my blog readers and my Twitter followers which they preferred, and the majority, mostly parents of children with autism, reported that they prefer the person-first terminology.
Person-first language is an easy philosophy to accept. It makes complete sense, and I find it to be a perfectly reasonable way of thought. However, I tend not to prefer it. The reasons for rejecting person-first are more complicated, but, I believe, equally valid.
I use the adjective "autistic" for several reasons. I have taken my cues from many autistic adults who self-identify as autistic. For these individuals, autism is simply a part of them that cannot be separated from who they are. Autism is, in a way, a description of how their brains work, not something that has been added to their being. Without autism, they would not be the same person; therefore it is not something they have, but rather something they are.
Autistic adult and autism activist Jim Sinclair wrote a very clear, articulate essay about why he dislikes person-first language. This essay lays out why he identifies as an autistic person, and his reasons are very similar to mine.
I use "autistic" because I don't see autism as an affliction but rather as a character or physical trait (such as blond, nice, intelligent or short) or as a major life characteristic (such as religion or race). Often, person-first language refers to a disease: "living with cancer," "a person with lupus," or "has AIDS." I think this type of language, while not necessarily wrong, doesn't work with autism in that it tends to pathologize the condition, which I do not see as a disease but rather a way of being.
My entire goal with my son is to raise him as a proud autistic person. He is what he is, and that is wonderful. I want to teach him that his autism is a part of him that gives him the gift of being able to think differently. It also gives him challenges, and he needs to learn how to compensate for those shortcomings. But, I don't want him to think he has this extra thing that makes him less.
I do understand many people don't care to hear their children referred to as autistic. I respect that. When referring to other people's children — or other adults for whom I don't know their preference — I almost always use the phrase "person with autism." For my own son, or when referring to people in a group, as I've mentioned, I use them interchangeably. Once my son is old enough to have a preference, I will follow his lead and refer to him as he sees fit.
I personally subscribe to a live-and-let-live philosophy. While my beliefs lie with "autistic," I tend to use whichever phrasing works better in my sentence. I also see many people feel passionately about person-first terminology. I would like to let these people know that, when I use the term "autistic," I am not doing so with derision, nor am I making a comment on you, your child or the people you know with autism.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for people with autism and their caregivers, and, no matter what terminology I use, that will never change.
I use "autistic" because I don't see autism as an affliction but rather as a character or physical trait (such as blond, nice, intelligent or short) or as a major life characteristic (such as religion or race).>
Exactly the way I use the word and that I think is appropo to the poster above who said the victim was careless and to just don't leave home if they can't cope with being assaulted, etcd - an autistic stance that seems not to be able to relate what horror the victim went thru, etc.
Anyway thanks for bringing that to my attention so I can reconsider the use.
The full text of the Washington Times article:
SILVER SPRING, Md. — When I write here, I use the words "person with autism" and "autistic person" pretty interchangeably. Every once in a while, this column gets a comment telling me I should use "person first" language, meaning I shouldn't use the word "autistic" to describe a person.
Because I've heard this criticism more than once, I feel it necessary to tell you that I not only use the word "autistic" intentionally, but thoughtfully and with purpose.
The theory behind person-first language ("person with autism") is that it recognizes the person before the disability and stresses that there is more to a person than just autism. I asked my blog readers and my Twitter followers which they preferred, and the majority, mostly parents of children with autism, reported that they prefer the person-first terminology.
Person-first language is an easy philosophy to accept. It makes complete sense, and I find it to be a perfectly reasonable way of thought. However, I tend not to prefer it. The reasons for rejecting person-first are more complicated, but, I believe, equally valid.
I use the adjective "autistic" for several reasons. I have taken my cues from many autistic adults who self-identify as autistic. For these individuals, autism is simply a part of them that cannot be separated from who they are. Autism is, in a way, a description of how their brains work, not something that has been added to their being. Without autism, they would not be the same person; therefore it is not something they have, but rather something they are.
Autistic adult and autism activist Jim Sinclair wrote a very clear, articulate essay about why he dislikes person-first language. This essay lays out why he identifies as an autistic person, and his reasons are very similar to mine.
I use "autistic" because I don't see autism as an affliction but rather as a character or physical trait (such as blond, nice, intelligent or short) or as a major life characteristic (such as religion or race). Often, person-first language refers to a disease: "living with cancer," "a person with lupus," or "has AIDS." I think this type of language, while not necessarily wrong, doesn't work with autism in that it tends to pathologize the condition, which I do not see as a disease but rather a way of being.
My entire goal with my son is to raise him as a proud autistic person. He is what he is, and that is wonderful. I want to teach him that his autism is a part of him that gives him the gift of being able to think differently. It also gives him challenges, and he needs to learn how to compensate for those shortcomings. But, I don't want him to think he has this extra thing that makes him less.
I do understand many people don't care to hear their children referred to as autistic. I respect that. When referring to other people's children — or other adults for whom I don't know their preference — I almost always use the phrase "person with autism." For my own son, or when referring to people in a group, as I've mentioned, I use them interchangeably. Once my son is old enough to have a preference, I will follow his lead and refer to him as he sees fit.
I personally subscribe to a live-and-let-live philosophy. While my beliefs lie with "autistic," I tend to use whichever phrasing works better in my sentence. I also see many people feel passionately about person-first terminology. I would like to let these people know that, when I use the term "autistic," I am not doing so with derision, nor am I making a comment on you, your child or the people you know with autism.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for people with autism and their caregivers, and, no matter what terminology I use, that will never change.
Aug 29th, 2012, 09:54 AM
#94
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on the other hand , re: autism and being retarded (developmentally delayed or challenged ), they are two completely different condtions( although a person could be both) My nephew in college getting straight "A"s is certainly not "retarded" but certainly struggles with empathy because he has Aspergers Syndrome, a form of Austism.
So... calling someone autistic is not the same as calling them "retarded".
So... calling someone autistic is not the same as calling them "retarded".
Aug 29th, 2012, 11:58 AM
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justineparis - didn't mean to imply autism and retarded were the same, and absolutely they are completely different conditions. It just that it seems like we've moved away from using the one term (appropriately ) and apparently not the other. If both are conditions - then why would we use either term generically to refer to a characteristic? Someone can be unfeeling, or struggle with empathy, but not be autistic. I think it doesn't add to clarity, and diminishes the argument. The article PalenQ shares above is interesting and well-stated. I don't have any problem using the phrase autistic person, assuming you're actually referring to someone on the spectrum. But if I turned to someone who's not, who is just being particularly unfeeling on that day, and said "You're being so autistic" that just sounds wrong to me...
Aug 29th, 2012, 01:51 PM
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First we had an iphone stolen and now the whole message of LOOK OUT AND BE AWARE has gone along with the iphone. Folks please get back on track and stop the tirades,miss speaking, ill defining and generalizations. Thanks to you all for thoughts and do heed the original message.
Aug 29th, 2012, 02:11 PM
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assuming you're actually referring to someone on the spectrum>
well yes I was - one person's who uncaring unfeeling comments to me were rather 'autistic' in the sense that she/he just could commisserate with the victim but actually blamed the assault (not OP's case) on the victim and told her that next time she should 'stay home' if she could not take it.
well yes I was - one person's who uncaring unfeeling comments to me were rather 'autistic' in the sense that she/he just could commisserate with the victim but actually blamed the assault (not OP's case) on the victim and told her that next time she should 'stay home' if she could not take it.
Aug 29th, 2012, 06:13 PM
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AlessandraZoe, reading your post, I wonder if what you felt that was so upsetting, is the sense of violation one feels when one has been mugged. And being mugged is what seems to have happened to you, and not a mere pickpocketing which is a far more passive experience.
You wrote:
<i> but part of me was thinking, "Paris? I'm experiencing this in Paris? MY Paris?" </i>
I think what you lost that day, was more than whatever money or possessions that you lost. You lost the Paris that you knew. I daresay you still love it, but I'm guessing it's not the same, it has lost, maybe not its charm, but an innocence that your brain probably told you it never had, but your heart wanted to believe it had. You can't sustain the illusion anymore, and my guess is, that you grieve for the loss of that dear illusion - am I anywhere close?
For those others who reported on this or that incident, yes, it's a good idea to remind them to keep things in perspective. But some slack is owed to those who are recent victims of crime, they are still in shock. And if it's their first encounter with a city, then their 'emotional' loss is greater, because they have no positive memories - yet - to balance the bad.
I still remember, vividly, a day now many, many years ago, when I was assaulted as a child when someone attempted to mug me for my bike. The blood has long dried, my injuries healed, and yes, I still love my city. But I remember.
You wrote:
<i> but part of me was thinking, "Paris? I'm experiencing this in Paris? MY Paris?" </i>
I think what you lost that day, was more than whatever money or possessions that you lost. You lost the Paris that you knew. I daresay you still love it, but I'm guessing it's not the same, it has lost, maybe not its charm, but an innocence that your brain probably told you it never had, but your heart wanted to believe it had. You can't sustain the illusion anymore, and my guess is, that you grieve for the loss of that dear illusion - am I anywhere close?
For those others who reported on this or that incident, yes, it's a good idea to remind them to keep things in perspective. But some slack is owed to those who are recent victims of crime, they are still in shock. And if it's their first encounter with a city, then their 'emotional' loss is greater, because they have no positive memories - yet - to balance the bad.
I still remember, vividly, a day now many, many years ago, when I was assaulted as a child when someone attempted to mug me for my bike. The blood has long dried, my injuries healed, and yes, I still love my city. But I remember.
Aug 29th, 2012, 06:46 PM
#100
These unfortunate things happen everywhere. One night when my late husband and I were walking arm in arm on the way to our car after dinner at a friend's. Someone in larceny shoes cut my shoulder bag from me.
