iPhone stolen in Paris

Old Aug 28th, 2012, 08:47 AM
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I think the difference between American city and Paris experiences is the volume and concentration of attacks/scams. I was only in Paris for 4 full days and we were attacked once and scam attempts at least 5 times. I spent 3 weeks in Chicago, New York, and Detroit this year. I never felt threatened or encountered anything more that a bum with a cup.

Many people know someone who had something stolen at some time. That is not the point. Also the nature of the incidents in Paris are beyond normal unaware pickpocketing. Her phone was buried in her front pocket and it was forcefully removed with assistance due to it was tightly wedged.
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 08:56 AM
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You walk around with it and don't take any precautions, you're even more of a target>

Once again blaming the victim!We just returned from Paris.

And St Cirq (who has pooh-poohed the Gypsy problem in Paris in the past) - this is what happened and what you DARE call careless - you are totally unfeeling and your remarks are simply rude and you owe them an apology IMO - here is what happened and which you call careless:

<My 15 year old daughter also had her IPhone forcefully removed from front pocket by a pack of gypsy teens covering her face with paper right outside of St Chappelle. Luckily we spotted the phone in the pack. My son and I grabbed the one who was holding the phone and got it back.>

St Cirq how was this careless on behalf of the victim and her family?

And what sage advice does St Cirq give the victims - <Deal with it or stay home.>

I am sorry but blaming the victim in this situation is just so so unfeeling - rather autistic IMO.
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 09:03 AM
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Sometimes I wish this forum had a "like" button. Would click it under OO's post
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 09:23 AM
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I was in Paris last June for 2 hours and encountered the ring scam 4 times! I also encountered the gypsy girls. I have lived in New York for 41 years and have never once been approached or threatened. Strange huh?
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 09:59 AM
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LIKE OOO

That post by St Cirq was shocking. I guess it has been removed?

Thieves know that Starbucks and McD have free wi-fi and that laptops and smartphones will be out.

This happens regularly around the world, just a quick google of laptop theft Starbucks should prove that.

The reaction of the French police is different than you will find elsewhere, though.

Here's an example from NYC.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/30/ny...ur-laptop.html
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 10:36 AM
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OO--I didn't say I bought a cheap substitute phone for a trip. That's my regular phone.
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 10:54 AM
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Sorry digbydog, I apologize for reading more into that than intended--people do buy cheap phones just for trips, but I misread you. Between first writing here and now though, you have given me an idea. Openly flaunt DH's awful Tracfone with its battery life of 10 minutes, whose keyboard no longer allows the letter "b" to be typed, and looks as if it's been dragged through the streets. No thief will come near us on seeing that, ensuring the safety of the rest of our possessions for the duration of the trip.
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 12:00 PM
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That post by St Cirq was shocking. I guess it has been removed?>

Nope - look Aug 28 12:28am and see this sorry lambasting of a 15 yr-old girl whose crime was she had her cell phone in her pants pocket!

showing no empathy at all for the victims!

Incroyable!
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 12:11 PM
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I still can't figure out who got "assaulted"?
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 12:21 PM
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<My 15 year old daughter also had her IPhone forcefully removed from front pocket by a pack of gypsy teens covering her face with paper right outside of St Chappelle.>

does this sound like an assault - does to me - anyone covering my face with paper and forcefully taking things out of my pockets I would consider an assault and so would most IF it happened to them.
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 12:22 PM
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A completely different experience by poster NeoPatrick:

<i>Let me start by saying today was the first time I was ever pickpocketed. It's been attempted before, but I thought I was pretty savvy about the whole thing. And after posting on one of the other Paris scam threads just this morning, I thought I was well aware of situations. <b>But the real point of this thread is partially to point out a few things that may not match what others have posted recently in regards to "what happens" or "the police can't do anything" and similar thoughts.</b></i>

read more > http://tinyurl.com/8oxej53
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 12:35 PM
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PalenQ--not sure about French law, but under American law, once you are touched, it is not simply an assault, but a battery.
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Assault - any intentional act that causes another person to fear that they're about to suffer physical harm. Being surrounded by a gang, papers shoved in the face, and hands in the pockets. I think 'fear' is an understatement.
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 02:03 PM
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So pickpocketing counts as "assault & battery" because you are touched?
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 02:22 PM
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Suze--here's a definition of battery:

"The following elements must be proven to establish a case for battery: (1) an act by a defendant; (2) an intent to cause harmful or offensive contact on the part of the defendant; and (3) harmful or offensive contact to the plaintiff.

type of contact that may constitute battery causes no actual physical harm but is, instead, offensive or insulting to the victim. Examples include spitting in someone's face or offensively touching someone against his or her will.

Touching the person of someone is defined as including not only contacts with the body, but also with anything closely connected with the body, such as clothing or an item carried in the person's hand. For example, a battery may be committed by intentionally knocking a hat off someone's head or knocking a glass out of some-one's hand."

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...disambiguation)
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 02:29 PM
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It seemed to me that people were grateful for the initial warning, and then it went sideways when the OP warned that Paris was not safe for Americans. Those kinds of silly hyperbolic statements *always* result in a down-the-drain trajectory in Fodor threads. The OP had no way of knowing that, since she's new. Maybe cut her some slack??

For more on assault: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/assault
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 02:34 PM
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Assault=actions that cause you to fear harm.

Battery=unlawful touching causing harm.

Harm does not have to be physical injury. Jostling someone or spitting can be considered battery. I'm guessing the mustard trick would count as battery.

I suppose if the thief was done without the person feeling it at all you could say it wasn't battery.

In California the taking of property from a person by force or threat would be robbery.
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 03:11 PM
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Well call me crazy, but you're not supposed to leave stuff sitting on a cafe table in a public place ever... not your purse, your iphone, your camera, whatever.

While the OP is a good reminder it's not particularly upsetting to me because they kind of walked right into it.

And no I'm not "blaming the victim" but I feel the same when people get their car windows smashed and a purse, laptop or phone stolen after they leave it sitting visible in their parked car here in Seattle.
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 03:12 PM
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Oops. Just caught my error. OP never said that; another poster did. Sorry!
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Old Aug 28th, 2012, 03:15 PM
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THEY WERE ON THE SECOND FLOOR OF A RESTAURANT. They had a team of thieves run upstairs and create a diversion and theft.

It's ridiculous to shift the blame to the victims.
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