Hi all, looking for your grand honesty on the second leg of our trip.
We are wondering what days we have booked too much, what days we don't have enough, etc. This is a rough draft. Looking for your "redlines" as my boss would say. Thanks for your help and your honesty.


Friday
Drive to Sarlat from Avignon


Saturday
Sarlat – market and town
(laundry and easy night off)


Sunday
Domme
La Roque-Gageac
Boatride to bridge at Castlenaud
Chateau Castlenaud and town


Monday
Le Bugue – market and town)
Limeuil
Les Eyzies-de-Tayac
Font de Gaume
Evening in Bergerac??


Tuesday
St. Leon sur Vezere
St. Amand-de-Coly
Grotte de Rouffignac
Hautefort Chateau
(enough time to have dinner in Periguex??)


Wednesday
Padirac
Rocamadour
Pech-Merle
St. Cirq Lapopie
Figeac


Thursday
Leave for Loire Valley


Again, thanks for your help. Our trip is going to be so much more memorable because of you all.


eholden

eholden, you could do more than you propose on the first two days. Many of the villages you mention are very close to Sarlat. You won't need to spend more than a couple of hours at the market so could go something else on Saturday afternoon.

The Le Bugue market is on Tuesday so you might want to reverse your Monday and Tuesday plans. The English tour at Font de Gaumes was at 11:30 when we were there in June but this could change. Be sure to book it at least a month ahead. The places you mention for this day are all close so you should be able to get to them all on the same day if you get to the market early.

You could add something to Rocamadour and Padirac but choose something closer, perhaps the walnut mill near Martel. We found that visiting just Peche Merle, St. Cirq Lapopie and Figeac was a long day by itself.

You might find my trip report helpful:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34839073

I agree about Figeac...it takes a long time to drive there...we basically did that and St Cirq and drove home to Sarlat and that was a FULL day of driving.

I agree with Moolyn. Also, if you are staying in Sarlat (its nto clear in your note) I dont know that you will want to spend the evenings in Perigueux or Bergerac. It's a long drive home. In fact, I wouldn't bother with either city since ther are so many lovely villages around. Each has an attractive old section - but neither as good as what you will see in Sarlat or even Figeac, one of our favourite places.

Hi E,

I also suggest dropping Perigueux and Bergerac.

I think that your Wednesday is too full.
Check driving times and distances at www.mappy.com and www.viamichelin.com.

Is there a reason for leaving out Lascaux II?

..also, on Sunday, you can visit Castelnaud but be aware that the boat does not drop you there..it returns to La Roque Gageac. There are a few boats daily and you should reserve in advance if possible, that morning is fine, so get the boat tickets when you arrive in La Roque and then visit the town and come back to the dock. On the day you do St. Leon, which you could combine with Lascaux II, you may want to make time to stop at La Roque St. Christophe....look the the website for this, and for the boat ride, in my trip report, which I am still working on.....

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34894706

First of all, I think this is not a terrible plan overall...other than the points brought up by Moolyn and others. And yes, your Wednesday is too much. But you've given this some thought, and it shows.

I have to side with Ira and ask why no Lascaux II? It is easily one of the coolest things I've ever seen in my life.

Busy with in-laws now, so I'll bookmark & make comments later.

I disagree with others that say Perigueux is "missable". I think it is almost as interesting as Sarlat, larger than Sarlat, and much less touristy. There's some very nice shops there that are not so catering-to-the-toutists as the ones in Sarlat, and the main shoppping street in the old section has some beautiful storefronts. The outskirts are quite gruesome, however. Perigueux has a fabulous walking tour that you can pick up at the tourist office. Go there on market day to get the most out of this very interesting town. I would rate it "higher" than Figeac, which we love. Visit Perigueux in conjunction with Hautefort or Brantome for a good day-trip from the Sarlat area. Bergerac is not that great.

Stu Dudley

If you want to save some valuable time, there is an excellent laundry in Cenac, at the base of the hill to Domme. It is run by an English couple (their daughter is married to a French electrician). They do your laundry, dry it and fold it for about the same price it costs for a laundromat. Leave your laundry there, visit Doome and it will be done in two hours - about the time you have probablt alloted for Domme.

I agree with Stu. We loved Perigueux! We spent a day there and did a great tour! Figeac we could have missed...didnt do it for us.

Well hello everyone, so excited to hear fom you all. First of all, we are staying in Sarlat the whole time (forgot to mention that).

Ira, Mr. G, et al., the reason we didn't add Lascaux II was because from ALL the forum inputs we read, we got the impression that Pech-Merle and Font de Gaume were the best ones because they were REAL. We didn't want to overdo the cave thing. But we will input it Lascaux II because of all your comments; obviously wrong move. We will add it to our Tuesday (which is now Monday).

Moolyn - Of course I have been reading your WONDERFUL trip report(s). Where do you think I got all this information to start with? I have switched Monday with Tuesday so we can do the Le Bugue market. We are still sitting on our last day because that is what is causing the most concern as of right now.

Jamikins/Moolyn, do you think St. Cirq and Peche-Merle are worth the long drive? We are stopping at Carcissonne on the way from Avignon, otherwise we would stop at Pech-Merle and/or Rocamadour instead.

Ekscrunchy, was wondering if it was a one way boatride or not. Thanks. We will just drive on after the boatride. I am sure it will be worth it.

Mr Go, when submitting our first leg of our itinerary we got slattered, so this time we were hoping we were in the ballpark at least. It's so hard to plan something this intense without ever being there or knowing a dang thing. I don't know where we would be without all of you. Actually we would have wasted a ton of time and money and half the trip it will actually be in the long run, that's where we would be...

Stu/Jamikins, okay we are going to drop Bergerac but keep Periguex. (The shopping convinced me!!!)

Robjame, what an awesome idea about laundry. Man, my husband and I should think about retiring over there some day and doing that. I will look in to that. GREAT INFO.

So looks like we have Saturday night open, thoughts?

Sunday we are keeping the same. Is that a full day?

Monday and Tuesday have been swapped. Monday we have added Lascaux II between St. Leon and St. Amand, ending with Hautefort castle. Monday a full day?

Tuesday we are going to go to Periguex for the afternoon/early evening after Font de Gaume - thoughts?

Wednesday - dropped Figeac. Could we do Rocamadour on Saturday afternoon? the do just Pech-Merle and st. Cirq-Lapopie on Wednesday?

Thank you all so much everyone. If we win the lottery - husband buys a ticket EVERY Wednesday - you will all be going with us

emh

eholden, your modified plan sounds great. Here's a few comments:

Rocamadour isn't a long drive from Sarlat so you could easily see it on the Saturday afternoon.

Rather than the boat ride, consider a canoe trip from Cenac just below Domme to Beynac. Its the one thing we want to do every time we return to the Dordogne. Get there soon after 9 am and you'll be back by noon. That gives lots of time to see Domme, Le Roque-Gageac and Castlenaud in the afternoon.

Monday and Tuesday sound full but doable. Just prioritize what you want to do most and leave the less important things to the end in case you run out of steam.

Take the motorway partway to Peche Merle to save some driving time on the way there. Otherwise it's a two hour drive. Call a day or two ahead to book a tour time but they will let you in an earlier group if you arrive sooner. After St. Cirq-Lapopie you can decide whether you want to drive to Figeac or return to Sarlat. There's time and the road between Figeac and Sarlat is good, about an hour and a half.

Glad you found my trip report helpful. I finally finished it today!

Hi E,

>St. Cirq and Peche-Merle are worth the long drive? We are stopping at Carcissonne on the way from Avignon, otherwise we would stop at Pech-Merle and/or Rocamadour instead. <

Peche Merle is definitely worth the drive.

I would give up Carcassone to see Peche Merle and St Cirq.

>>I would give up Carcassone to see Peche Merle and St Cirq.<<

me too !!!

Stu Dudley

I would do the Avignon Sarlat drive in two days and enjoy the scenery of the Gorges de l'Aveyron and the Gorges du Tarn.

Hi e,

If you decide to follow Michael's advice, St. Chely du tarn is a good place to stop for the night.

You could also see the Millau bridge on the way to Sarlat.

Here are some thoughts:

Friday
If you leave Provence very early, you might be able to visit Carcassonne before lunch, & Peche Merle/St Cirq Lapopie in the afternoon – arriving in Sarlat in time for reasonable check-in, visit, & dinner. Check viamichelin for driving times & allocate 2 ½ hrs for Carcassone (3 hrs if you like tacky gift shops), make reservations for Peche Merle & then determine whether to do Pech Merle or St Cirq first.
Don’t forget to take a gander at Ch Montfort – you won’t miss it

Saturday
If you're staying in Sarlat, I don't think you really need to allocate time for a visit - you'll see plenty of Sarlat at the beginning & end of your days. I also think Sarlat is much more enjoyable before the hordes arrive & after they leave. Also, many of the merchants pull out umbrellas & other distracting things (postcard stands are the biggest offenders) that hide/obscure the remarkable architecture in Sarlat. With the gas lamps lit at night - I think dusk & late evenings are the most enjoyable times for a stroll through town. Therefore, I think you should do something else Sat after the market (you may actually want to leave the market by 10:30) for some other sites. I would add the beautiful Jardins d’Eyrignac (have lunch there – it’s a very pretty setting), and then perhaps Lascaux II.
There is a laundry in Sarlat – It’s at the east end of Rue Fenelon (it was there in ’97 – so check to make sure its still there). Do laundry while visiting the market.

Sunday
I assumed that you forgot to add in Beynac – the town and the Chateau.
Also, this day may be a little light – so I would add Ch Marqueyssac. Have lunch there, then stroll along the cliffs above the Dordogne & look down at St Julien & Roque Gageac from high above. If you don’t want to do this, add in a visit to Ch Melindes & the birds of prey show there. The towns of Roque Gageac & Beynac will be 30 min visits – Domme about 1 ½ hrs if you shop a little. There really isn’t much to see at the town of Castelnaud

Monday
St Leon
St Amand
Rouffignac – with such limited time, I think I would skip this in favor of Peche Merle, Lascaux II, Font de Gaume, caves at Domme (if you visit), and even Proumeyssac. You stated that you didn’t want to do a cave overload. I think Peche Merle & Lascaux II would satisfy your pre-historic drawings/handprint/footprint/scratches appetite, and Peche Merle & Proumeyssac would be adequate for stalactites/mites & secretions. I would recommend Promeyssac here instead of Rouffignac (it’s a little different from the others), or you could even skip it if you’re running out of time. Remember, many sites have lunch closings, so it’s harder to schedule visits to places than it is in the US.
Hautfort – great

Tuesday
Le Bugue & Market
Limeuil
Les Eyzies
Font de Gaume
This day doesn’t seem very exciting to me. Les Eyzies is only good for the museum IMO, and Limeuil is kinda fun on a lazy Sunday but a little boring (compared to other villages) on other days, and I think after Lascaux II that Fond du Gaume will be quite disappointing. Perhaps instead of these last three, I would substitute either Proumeyssac (if you didn’t visit it yesterday) or Roque Christopher, then on to Perigueux.

Wednesday
Good choices, but you’ll probably only have time to visit either St Cirq Lappopie or Figeac – not both. Last year we got to Rocamadour at 8:30 to avoid the crowds. We left around 11:15 and made it to Padirac for the last boat departure of the morning – which was around 11:45. We were finished around 1:00. You’re doing these sites in opposite order of our choice, which will get you closer to St Cirq – but you’ll be in Rocamadour when it’s too crowded for my tastes. If you visit Peche Merle & St Cirq on another day, consider visiting Rocamadour first, then Padirac, then head north to & visit the very cute villages of St Cere, Autoire, Loubressac, and especially Carennac & Martel. You’ll pass Lacave on the way back if you want to see more stalactites & mites.

Thursday
Leave for the Loire
Wow – you’ve left a lot of the Dordogne behind:
Belves
Ch Melindes
Canoe trip on the Dordogne
Collonges la Rouge
Turenne
Jardin d’Eyrignac
Figeac
Carlux area
Brantome
Ch Marqueyssac
Tremelat meander
Ch Fenelon
Turenne
Martel
Carennac
Monpazir
Castelnau-Brentoux Chateau
Lots of other caves (Villars, others)
Lots of other chateaux (Bonaguil, Biron, Puymartin, others)
Lots of other small non-touristy villages (Villefranche , Daglan, dozen others)

If you’re planning more than 2 ½ days in the Loire, I would certainly like to argue that you should spend more time in the Dordogne & less time in the Loire (we’ve spend 8 weeks in the Dordogne & 3 in the Loire). I find the Loire to be kinda one-dimensional (We love chateaux – visited over 30 this year in France).

At the very least, you should hit Turenne & Collonges la Rouge on the way up the freeway to the Loire.

Stu Dudley

You've got a wealth of information on this post to sort through already, but I'll throw my 2 cents in as well...

- There's a laundry in Sarlat near the Hypermarche just outside of town heading north (follow the signs for Brive etc, it'll be on your right as you head out), as well as one right in town, best parking for that is near the gendarme station.

- We (Jamikins and I) visited a whole mess o' caves in the area, best value in my opinion is the grotto as Lacave (near Rocamadour) - no prehistory here, just HUGE caverns with stalactites and stalagmites. It was the biggest and most impressive of the grottos we visited, a good side trip if you're in Rocamadour anyway.

- The drive between Figeac and St Cirq Lapopie is amazing - the best drive I had on the entire trip - very windy, road is wedged between the river (Lot I think) and the cliff - at point, the road bed is carved out under the cliff face itself - not quite a tunnel, but almost. We weren't overly impressed with Figeac, despite the medieval buildings, although a lot of people on Fodors really enjoyed it.

- Parking in St. Cirq is a bit annoying - the best spots close to the town are more expensive and desperately full when we were there, other lots are a fair hike either up or down some relatively steep hills. We actually didn't go into the town itself, partly because we couldn't find decent parking and didn't want to walk that much after a full day of sightseeing.

- Perigeux is really interesting, although I recommend taking a tour from the tourist office - you get a lot more than you would doing it yourself. They also have self-guided walking tours, which we also did, and quite enjoyed.

- StuDudley is right, Sarlat is best when it's not quite as crowded. Market days are interesting if you like markets, we preferred the mid-week market to the weekend market - other than the "tourist crap" vendors, the rest was more or less the same, and a bit less crowded.

Okay, after reading Stu's comments (thank you so much for taking the time) we are kind of warped now...

First things first, we have lost a day in Paris due to our airlines miles reward plan having us fly back to NY on a Saturday instead of Sunday. So we are losing one day in Paris (down to five to six full days).

Question #1 - Can we do Paris in five days? Would it be better to lose the sixth day in Paris and add it the Dordogne? We are only going to do three days in Loire.

We have taken out a bunch and now need to know where to add all the other things you have all recommended. There is so much we want to see but we don't have enough time and don't know what is more important than the other. So here is what we have so far, please fill in the blanks for us.

Saturday
Sarlat (market)
Rocamadour
Padirac ???
Evening in Sarlat

Sunday
Dome
La Roque Gogeac
canoe down Dordogne to Castlenaud
Chateau Castlenaud and town
Afternoon in Beynac and chateau ???
(Too much for one day?) From what Stu says, probably not.

Monday
St. Leon Sur Vezere
Lascaux
St. Amand de Coly
Hautefort castle
(enough for one day or room for more?)

Tuesday
Le Burge (town and market)
Rogue Christopher
Afternoon in Perguex
(Enough for one day or room for more?)


Wednesday
Peche Merle
St. Cirq La Popie
(What else???)

Where do we fit St Cere, Autoire, Loubressac, and especially Carennac & Martel? What else is most important?

Thank you all... Trust me, we will be glad when this part is DONE too. We apreciate all the help.

emh

You've never posted your complete travel plans here, so it's hard for anyone to comment on how much time you should allocate to each region of France.

Commenting "blindly", I would advise you to "do less & enjoy more" (kind of a cliche experienced travelers pass on to first timers).

Consider visiting Versailles and Chantilly near Paris to get your fill of Renaissance chateaux, & skip the Loire.

Stu Dudley