I would like to live in Europe. Italy or France pehaps?
Aug 22nd, 2012, 03:48 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would like to live in Europe. Italy or France pehaps?
Hi everyone. I am a 22 year old college student attending school to be an American Sign Language Interpreter/Transliterator. I live in Minnesota but need some excitement in my life. I have always dreamed of traveling, but I want to do so much work. I don't want to just go somewhere and live as a tourist for a few weeks or months and then go home. I want a truly memorable experience that I will cherish for a lifetime. I understand how short life is and I fully intend on living mine to the fullest. I want to live all over the world, to see its Beauty and fully understand different cultures. There is just something unnerving about "just being a tourist". I want to live and experience what locals experience. For now I am looking at living somewhere either in Italy or France. But I am not sure which one, or which city? Everyones opinion would be greatly appreciated. This is something I really want to do with my life. Thank you!
Aug 22nd, 2012, 04:22 PM
#2
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 22,987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is very difficult to get a residency/work permit in France or Italy, perhaps as difficult as it is in the States to get a green card. Your best bet is to work for an American company which has branches abroad and is willing to post you there because you have skills needed in that branch.
Aug 22nd, 2012, 04:53 PM
#3
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 34,858
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does your desire to fully experience other cultures and not live like a tourist involve actually learning something about the culture in another country, and studying a foreign language for several years to get some basic proficiency? Because if you don't know a language and won't take the effort to learn one, you won't be experiencing anything at a deep level. YOu won't even be able to read the local signs and newspapers, for example. I suggest you invest some time and effort where you are now before going to visit some place for an extended period, wherever that might be. Your post just doesn't exhibit any understanding or real interest in a foreign country, just boredom. The grass is always greener. I just presume you have not studied any other language and have no particular interest in the literature, history or art of some other country where you might go, or you would have said so.
Aug 22nd, 2012, 05:27 PM
#4
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,067
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For people under 26 it's much easier to get a visa to live in many European countries than it will be after age 26 - but even before 26 you usually need to be either enrolled in a school or in a program where you work, usually teaching English - and therefore, as Christina pointed out, you need to speak the local language. You don't need to be totally fluent, but certainly more proficient than just tourist lingo. Did you study any language in HS and college?
Aug 22nd, 2012, 05:27 PM
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After I get my degree in American Sign Language Interpreting I do plan on broadening my interpreting even futher; French, German, Spanish, Italian. I have always been awed by the beauty of Europe and it's history as well. I have done my fair share of art research, and as much as I enjoyed learning about art I myself am not that artistic :/ I am not thinking of moving there as of now, but after school. I like having time to prepare myself for transition. So doing the necessary research and learning the language I know will take time and saving money. I have always been more culturally diverse than many of my friends and relatives, where I would go every distance to experience a new culture.
Aug 22nd, 2012, 05:30 PM
#6
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope you will not laugh at me, but when Italians talk, they use their hands, and you might find it interesting to live in Italy. There is a school in Siena where you can study Lingua dei Segni Italiana, which is Italian Sign Language. If you are a student, it is easy to get the permission to be in the country legally.
http://www.sienaschool.com/site/page...epartment.aspx
http://www.sienaschool.com/site/page...epartment.aspx
Aug 22nd, 2012, 05:32 PM
#7
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 49,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Such innocent idealism is charming, but I hope you know that you can't just up and move to another country without going through proper channels. Which means either being hired by an American company and being sponsored for a job in Europe, or getting a long-term visa (you can't stay in Schengen countries, for example, as a tourist for longer than 90 days), which is rather difficult unless you are enrolled as a student in a bona fide European program or have some other legitimate reason for emigrating. Otherwise, you're an illegal alien and subject to deportation and being barred from going back to Europe for at least some period of time.
There ARE ways to make this happen, but just getting on a plane and going to another country isn't one of them. You are facing enormous challenges (and yes, though you didn't mention it, if you're not fluent or close to it in the language of the country where you want to go, you go to the bottom of the list of likely candidates for any sort of job), and don't seem to have mentioned any serious preparation for this sort of move, anywhere. France and Italy will just laugh at you if you think you're going to get some job that some French or Italian citizen can do better than, or even as well as, you can do. Can you sign in French or Italian? If not, pfff! If you have some awesome credentials that make it possible for you to perform a job that few if any French or Italian citizens can handle, well, maybe, but you'd have to be a lot older and have a LOT more experience and degrees and expertise than you seem to have at present.
As for "just being a tourist," if you haven't even BEEN a tourist in the countries that intrigue you, you have no basis for making any comparison between being a tourist and actually experiencing a culture. Most people who end up emigrating have spent at least months, if not years, as tourists in the places they end up in. There is no way to get past "just being a tourist" before you transition to actually being a part of the culture. Being a tourist isn't "unnerving," it's how you acclimate to a new place and figure it out and come to understand it. You don't seem to have even done this, yet you want to go live and work in Europe? Nonsense.
Don't get me wrong - I love pipe dreams. It was always mine to own a place in France, and I did it, despite a gazillion people telling me I was crazy. But it took me YEARS of paperwork and getting my EU citizenship and buying a house there, and I was already pretty much fluent in the language so I could negotiate the intricacies, and it was still a major challenge. So I don't discount your aspirations, but get a real serious dose of reality and do some major research. At present, you are living in la-la land
There ARE ways to make this happen, but just getting on a plane and going to another country isn't one of them. You are facing enormous challenges (and yes, though you didn't mention it, if you're not fluent or close to it in the language of the country where you want to go, you go to the bottom of the list of likely candidates for any sort of job), and don't seem to have mentioned any serious preparation for this sort of move, anywhere. France and Italy will just laugh at you if you think you're going to get some job that some French or Italian citizen can do better than, or even as well as, you can do. Can you sign in French or Italian? If not, pfff! If you have some awesome credentials that make it possible for you to perform a job that few if any French or Italian citizens can handle, well, maybe, but you'd have to be a lot older and have a LOT more experience and degrees and expertise than you seem to have at present.
As for "just being a tourist," if you haven't even BEEN a tourist in the countries that intrigue you, you have no basis for making any comparison between being a tourist and actually experiencing a culture. Most people who end up emigrating have spent at least months, if not years, as tourists in the places they end up in. There is no way to get past "just being a tourist" before you transition to actually being a part of the culture. Being a tourist isn't "unnerving," it's how you acclimate to a new place and figure it out and come to understand it. You don't seem to have even done this, yet you want to go live and work in Europe? Nonsense.
Don't get me wrong - I love pipe dreams. It was always mine to own a place in France, and I did it, despite a gazillion people telling me I was crazy. But it took me YEARS of paperwork and getting my EU citizenship and buying a house there, and I was already pretty much fluent in the language so I could negotiate the intricacies, and it was still a major challenge. So I don't discount your aspirations, but get a real serious dose of reality and do some major research. At present, you are living in la-la land
Aug 22nd, 2012, 05:44 PM
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
stracciatella- That is actually very very Helpful! I would love to be more culturally advanced in sign language 
StCirq- I do understand that It is going to take time. I know its not a pack up and move type of thing, this is something I am hoping to do in the future, not now. I know I didn't include everything in my initial post but I do understand what you are saying. I am just trying to get ideas so I can prepare myself in the future.
StCirq- I do understand that It is going to take time. I know its not a pack up and move type of thing, this is something I am hoping to do in the future, not now. I know I didn't include everything in my initial post but I do understand what you are saying. I am just trying to get ideas so I can prepare myself in the future.
Aug 22nd, 2012, 05:46 PM
#9
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
stcirq,
Do you live in S. Cirq Lapopie? I have heard it is very pretty, like a postcard.
Maybe you were writing at the same time as the first poster, but she has said she is not planning to do this now, but after some years, and she will study the language.
I don't like being a tourist either! I would rather try to live among the people in a different culture. Maybe there is a language problem here because I understand what she is saying!
Do you live in S. Cirq Lapopie? I have heard it is very pretty, like a postcard.
Maybe you were writing at the same time as the first poster, but she has said she is not planning to do this now, but after some years, and she will study the language.
I don't like being a tourist either! I would rather try to live among the people in a different culture. Maybe there is a language problem here because I understand what she is saying!
Aug 22nd, 2012, 06:00 PM
#10
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,525
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did you do a "semester abroad" to understand what it is like to live in a foreign country-preferably one that isn't in the college's dorm but an actual apartment?
I think that you need to realize that it is extremely hard due to immigration laws to just up and live in France and Italy.There are major economic problems in most of Europe and the tide of immigration has also changed within it due to the money problems.
I believe with the EU countries you get 90 days at the most to stay and then you have to leave the country. Perhaps you might try and do a summer trip over there to see for yourself?
Its expensive as an American to live overseas with the currency conversion-my kids both live in the UK and its unbelievable how fast money goes even doing a budget.Its extremely hard to get an American company to pay you to move to Europe unless you have a skill like an engineer or MBA.
The airlines maybe hiring for flight attendants in the next couple years which may your best bet for seeing a foreign city's culture so look into one that flies internationally.
I think that you need to realize that it is extremely hard due to immigration laws to just up and live in France and Italy.There are major economic problems in most of Europe and the tide of immigration has also changed within it due to the money problems.
I believe with the EU countries you get 90 days at the most to stay and then you have to leave the country. Perhaps you might try and do a summer trip over there to see for yourself?
Its expensive as an American to live overseas with the currency conversion-my kids both live in the UK and its unbelievable how fast money goes even doing a budget.Its extremely hard to get an American company to pay you to move to Europe unless you have a skill like an engineer or MBA.
The airlines maybe hiring for flight attendants in the next couple years which may your best bet for seeing a foreign city's culture so look into one that flies internationally.
Aug 22nd, 2012, 06:13 PM
#11
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What the OP is saying is perfectly easy to understand. It;s just very difficult to do.
It seems to me the first step is to visit the countries in question - even for a month or two - to get an idea of what it's really like - not just in terms of language, but cultural norms, societal expectations, finances, life styles, etc.
Europe is different - very different - with various countries different in multiple different ways. I have worked with two clients in europe who brought English-speaking people from all over the world to work in their offices in Switzerland (US, Canada, Australia, S Africa etc) and all of them have funny - and sometimes surprising - about how different things are there.
Agree that finding work with a company that either is based in europe but has offices in the US - or vice versa - is the easiest way to get there with 1) a job with a reasonable salary and 2) some support for the initial period of culture shock. But I'm not sure what type of company would have use for our qualifications on a global basis. (The people I work with all develop expertise in their field in their native countries - for 8 or 10 years before qualifying to move to the home office.
It seems to me the first step is to visit the countries in question - even for a month or two - to get an idea of what it's really like - not just in terms of language, but cultural norms, societal expectations, finances, life styles, etc.
Europe is different - very different - with various countries different in multiple different ways. I have worked with two clients in europe who brought English-speaking people from all over the world to work in their offices in Switzerland (US, Canada, Australia, S Africa etc) and all of them have funny - and sometimes surprising - about how different things are there.
Agree that finding work with a company that either is based in europe but has offices in the US - or vice versa - is the easiest way to get there with 1) a job with a reasonable salary and 2) some support for the initial period of culture shock. But I'm not sure what type of company would have use for our qualifications on a global basis. (The people I work with all develop expertise in their field in their native countries - for 8 or 10 years before qualifying to move to the home office.
Aug 22nd, 2012, 06:25 PM
#12
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But it is hard to do anything in life! (Unless you are born rich.)
I am in New York City and I see immigrants everywhere, and America makes it much harder to be here than Europe makes it for Americans to be there. Of course it is hard to find a job, and of course Europeans are funny, but when someone is 22, they have a lot of time and energy, and they are free to do unusual things.
I think it is good to think about living in another country and learning to speak another language. Americans who live in Italy say they love living there.
I am in New York City and I see immigrants everywhere, and America makes it much harder to be here than Europe makes it for Americans to be there. Of course it is hard to find a job, and of course Europeans are funny, but when someone is 22, they have a lot of time and energy, and they are free to do unusual things.
I think it is good to think about living in another country and learning to speak another language. Americans who live in Italy say they love living there.
Aug 22nd, 2012, 06:35 PM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An excellent way to live in Europe "like a local" (albeit for a limited time) is to enroll in an intensive language course. Typically you'll have several hours of classes in the morning or afternoon, and the rest of your day is free. You can opt for the school to arrange an apartment for you. Usually these apartments are in neighborhoods away from the touristy parts, and you'll get the experience of shopping for groceries and running errands, and doing all the normal things that locals do. Which, come to think of it, probably isn't too exciting. And you want excitement. Being a tourist is probably more exciting
Aug 22nd, 2012, 06:47 PM
#15
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being from NZ, I can get a working holiday visa for most places in Europe... If you could do something similar, that would work out quite well. Working holiday is valid for people between the ages of 18 and 30, and is only available once in your lifetime for two years, during which you can work while traveling. It's quite a good scheme really... I'm not sure whether or not it is available to Americans for Europe, do some digging and see what you can find
Aug 23rd, 2012, 07:27 AM
#17
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WOW!!
its fun to travel to Italia and France, but to live there with out any knowledge of the language, job , unussual skills.and no immediate plans on going to school there or, family ties there...
and not even visited these countries ? i am in agreement with StCirq.
I suggest you immediately visit the Italian embassy/consulate (website if you can’t go in person) http://italy.usembassy.gov/acs/general-visiting.html where you are a resident for more information on how to obtain the necessary paperwork. Each embassy/consulate may have a different procedure to follow.
As an American,( i assume this) you’ll notice immediately that there are no agreements between the U.S. and Italy for work. To get a Work Visa, you have to do one of two things: apply for one from your home country and wait to receive one, or find a company willing to hire you and initiate the paperwork for you. This is a bit of a catch-22 because most companies will not hire you without a work permit and it’s almost impossible to get a work permit without a job! If you’re familiar with the green-card process in the U.S., it’s not much different, nor less difficult to obtain a work permit. but YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW THE LANGUAGE !
Some are able to work part-time jobs if they are in possession of a Study Visa (and therefore permit) but note that only a few educational programs entitle you to the student visa and they are time-consuming programs. You can also only work part-time with a student visa, not full-time, unless the company is willing to modify the permit into a full work visa (and do the paperwork for you). without work, how you you going to live there?!
The third most common option is becoming an Elective Resident, ideally for a person with income to support themselves so they are not living off the Italian government. Many people coming here to retire will get this visa. Note two important things – you cannot work on this visa, and it takes a considerable amount of money (there is no set number, but you should have as much as 1 million in assets) to be qualified for this visa.
i did not mention dual citizenship (which i have) ,only because you made no mention of your family being from France or Italia.
This is not to discourage you from your goal – if there is a will, there is a way. But, there is a legal way and a non-legal way, and the legal way is quite clear.
its fun to travel to Italia and France, but to live there with out any knowledge of the language, job , unussual skills.and no immediate plans on going to school there or, family ties there...
and not even visited these countries ? i am in agreement with StCirq.
I suggest you immediately visit the Italian embassy/consulate (website if you can’t go in person) http://italy.usembassy.gov/acs/general-visiting.html where you are a resident for more information on how to obtain the necessary paperwork. Each embassy/consulate may have a different procedure to follow.
As an American,( i assume this) you’ll notice immediately that there are no agreements between the U.S. and Italy for work. To get a Work Visa, you have to do one of two things: apply for one from your home country and wait to receive one, or find a company willing to hire you and initiate the paperwork for you. This is a bit of a catch-22 because most companies will not hire you without a work permit and it’s almost impossible to get a work permit without a job! If you’re familiar with the green-card process in the U.S., it’s not much different, nor less difficult to obtain a work permit. but YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW THE LANGUAGE !
Some are able to work part-time jobs if they are in possession of a Study Visa (and therefore permit) but note that only a few educational programs entitle you to the student visa and they are time-consuming programs. You can also only work part-time with a student visa, not full-time, unless the company is willing to modify the permit into a full work visa (and do the paperwork for you). without work, how you you going to live there?!
The third most common option is becoming an Elective Resident, ideally for a person with income to support themselves so they are not living off the Italian government. Many people coming here to retire will get this visa. Note two important things – you cannot work on this visa, and it takes a considerable amount of money (there is no set number, but you should have as much as 1 million in assets) to be qualified for this visa.
i did not mention dual citizenship (which i have) ,only because you made no mention of your family being from France or Italia.
This is not to discourage you from your goal – if there is a will, there is a way. But, there is a legal way and a non-legal way, and the legal way is quite clear.
Aug 23rd, 2012, 11:53 AM
#18
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 17,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
""America makes it much harder to be here than Europe makes it for Americans to be there. "
Much of Europe makes it relatively easy for under 30 year olds from most non-European developed countries to live and work in specific European countries, though France and Italy aren't remotely in the vanguard of that.
Almost uniquely among developed countries the US refuses to cooperate in the reciprocal regimes that make this possible. So, thanks to American legislators' characteristic insularity, it's infinitely tougher for young Americans to spend extended time here than for Australians, New Zealanders, Japanese - or in some cases even Malaysians.
Much of Europe makes it relatively easy for under 30 year olds from most non-European developed countries to live and work in specific European countries, though France and Italy aren't remotely in the vanguard of that.
Almost uniquely among developed countries the US refuses to cooperate in the reciprocal regimes that make this possible. So, thanks to American legislators' characteristic insularity, it's infinitely tougher for young Americans to spend extended time here than for Australians, New Zealanders, Japanese - or in some cases even Malaysians.
Aug 23rd, 2012, 12:18 PM
#19
A degree in sign language (even in the "wrong language") seems to be an excellent way to get your foot in the European door, because relatively rare skills are very much appreciated. I'm sure that a lot of people using the various European sign languages would like to learn American sign language, so if you have teaching skills, I am very confident that you could get a visa to work in this field.
