I could not believe my eyes !!
Aug 27th, 2006, 09:23 AM
#41
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<< ...restaurant owners and of course the national breweries... >>
Why would either industry have an interest in soft penalties, aimed at punishing those who commit fatal automobile accidents?
Do you really think that leaders of (or lobbyists for) either industry consider fatal automobile accidents caused by drunk drivers a justifiable and unavoidable byproduct of selling legal alcoholic beverages?
I don't.
I would be just the opposite.
If I ran a restaurant, bar, liquor store or brewery/distillery... and you drove a car drunk, after you purchased beverages that I sold you... and killed someone in my town...
...I'd want to kill you with my bare hands, myself.
Indeed, I think it would be a huge deterrent to irresponsible behavior.
Require the seller of the beverages to execute the drunk driver/murderer like the famous Nguyen Ngoc Loan/Nguyen Van Lem killing (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nguyen.jpg for photo).
Why would either industry have an interest in soft penalties, aimed at punishing those who commit fatal automobile accidents?
Do you really think that leaders of (or lobbyists for) either industry consider fatal automobile accidents caused by drunk drivers a justifiable and unavoidable byproduct of selling legal alcoholic beverages?
I don't.
I would be just the opposite.
If I ran a restaurant, bar, liquor store or brewery/distillery... and you drove a car drunk, after you purchased beverages that I sold you... and killed someone in my town...
...I'd want to kill you with my bare hands, myself.
Indeed, I think it would be a huge deterrent to irresponsible behavior.
Require the seller of the beverages to execute the drunk driver/murderer like the famous Nguyen Ngoc Loan/Nguyen Van Lem killing (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nguyen.jpg for photo).
Aug 27th, 2006, 09:27 AM
#42
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>>n London they set out those portable "pissoirs" in Covent Garden at night, especially around the bars and clubs where a man stands totally in the open and answers the call of nature<<
I know what you mean. I logged on to the Amsterdam webcam recently for the first time in a long time, and they'd plonked a temporary plastic one right in the field of view. They seem to keep disappearing and reappearing, no doubt as special events are happening. The ones in central London are permanent (they disappear under a metal plate in the ground during the day).
I know what you mean. I logged on to the Amsterdam webcam recently for the first time in a long time, and they'd plonked a temporary plastic one right in the field of view. They seem to keep disappearing and reappearing, no doubt as special events are happening. The ones in central London are permanent (they disappear under a metal plate in the ground during the day).
Aug 27th, 2006, 09:48 AM
#44
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A close friend told me that when he was in Shanghai, he saw a vending machine for pornography and "marital aids" in the men's room of a dance club. You inserted your credit card into the machine and out would come a vibrator, movie, or (non-inflated) blow-up doll. LOL LOL LOL
He also said there was a pornography stand at one of the airports in China that sold adult videos, see-thru nighties, and vibrators. It was for foreigners only. You had to show your passport to make a purchase.
Christine
He also said there was a pornography stand at one of the airports in China that sold adult videos, see-thru nighties, and vibrators. It was for foreigners only. You had to show your passport to make a purchase.
Christine
Aug 27th, 2006, 09:53 AM
#45
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Patrick, thanks for clearing up that mystery for me. There is one of those portable urinals very close to our flat in Covent Garden -- near the Lamb and Flag. I could never figure out where it went during the day when it disappeared only to reappear every night. I assumed a truck must come along morning and night and deliver them and take them away.
Aug 27th, 2006, 10:06 AM
#46
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I do not know what the "yield curve" would be... (what percentage reduction in sales would correspond to say, a 50% reduction in fatal automobile accidents caused by drunk drivers)...
I think that restauranteurs would be minimally affected. I am guessing that "bar owners" don't have much of an organized lobbyist presence. Hoteliers, who also operate both bars and restaurants probably do; their legal liability costs might well decrease by a similar amount to the reduction in sales they experience.
That leaves the brewers, vintners and distillers - - and conceivably they do have the greatest stake in this - - after all, the person who most likely served the drunk driver/murderer, was the drinker himself, in his own home
... and I have a direct (by marriage) family connection to a successful regional wine producer (very active in freethegrapes.org by the way), so I cannot pretend to be totally unbiased in my opinions here...
For starters, I don't think that they would view it <i>politically</i> acceptable to suport the kinds of draconian penalty measures that I propose. I am not convinced that they would worry about the reduction in sales that such new penalties would have. Remember: I am NOT proposing any change in WHAT behaviors are illegal (for example, public drunkenness - - an ill-defined crime - - I would not change the standard, nor do I seek a zero tolerance on blood alcohol content - - the current limts seem appropriate, and I would not expect the police to take any different steps in enforcing any existing laws against open containers, for example, etc).
It's the judicial arm to which I want to give a vicious and angry tool.
Will that reduce some sales? Perhaps a little, but I think the yield curve will be favorable, and the percent change can be made up by selling more beer nuts, or charge a cover for karaoke night, or something.
I think that restauranteurs would be minimally affected. I am guessing that "bar owners" don't have much of an organized lobbyist presence. Hoteliers, who also operate both bars and restaurants probably do; their legal liability costs might well decrease by a similar amount to the reduction in sales they experience.
That leaves the brewers, vintners and distillers - - and conceivably they do have the greatest stake in this - - after all, the person who most likely served the drunk driver/murderer, was the drinker himself, in his own home
... and I have a direct (by marriage) family connection to a successful regional wine producer (very active in freethegrapes.org by the way), so I cannot pretend to be totally unbiased in my opinions here...
For starters, I don't think that they would view it <i>politically</i> acceptable to suport the kinds of draconian penalty measures that I propose. I am not convinced that they would worry about the reduction in sales that such new penalties would have. Remember: I am NOT proposing any change in WHAT behaviors are illegal (for example, public drunkenness - - an ill-defined crime - - I would not change the standard, nor do I seek a zero tolerance on blood alcohol content - - the current limts seem appropriate, and I would not expect the police to take any different steps in enforcing any existing laws against open containers, for example, etc).
It's the judicial arm to which I want to give a vicious and angry tool.
Will that reduce some sales? Perhaps a little, but I think the yield curve will be favorable, and the percent change can be made up by selling more beer nuts, or charge a cover for karaoke night, or something.
Aug 27th, 2006, 11:28 AM
#47
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Rex,
"If I ran a restaurant, bar, liquor store or brewery/distillery... and you drove a car drunk, after you purchased beverages that I sold you... and killed someone in my town...
...I'd want to kill you with my bare hands, myself.
Indeed, I think it would be a huge deterrent to irresponsible behavior."
Actually, under your state's Dramshop Act, you would likely be held liable for that death. Not criminally, but civilly liable to the decedant's estate. That is the deterrant, or is supposed to be, to over-serving patrons in a bar.
But most drunks do their drinking at home or with friends before driving.
Most judges (and I know a few) would love to impose more severe penalties, but they are stuck with the laws made by the state legislature. So that is where the change must start.
And the biggest argument I've seen raised by offenders against impounding their car and/or revoking their driver's license? They argue they won't be able to get to work, and thus will not be able to support their family. Apparently that argument carries some weight with the legislators.
"If I ran a restaurant, bar, liquor store or brewery/distillery... and you drove a car drunk, after you purchased beverages that I sold you... and killed someone in my town...
...I'd want to kill you with my bare hands, myself.
Indeed, I think it would be a huge deterrent to irresponsible behavior."
Actually, under your state's Dramshop Act, you would likely be held liable for that death. Not criminally, but civilly liable to the decedant's estate. That is the deterrant, or is supposed to be, to over-serving patrons in a bar.
But most drunks do their drinking at home or with friends before driving.
Most judges (and I know a few) would love to impose more severe penalties, but they are stuck with the laws made by the state legislature. So that is where the change must start.
And the biggest argument I've seen raised by offenders against impounding their car and/or revoking their driver's license? They argue they won't be able to get to work, and thus will not be able to support their family. Apparently that argument carries some weight with the legislators.
Aug 27th, 2006, 12:24 PM
#49
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When I went through law school, the subject of DUI came up (hey, its a money maker), particularly the strange situation where vehicular homicide, the typical charge when a drunk driver kills someone, invariably carries a far lesser possible sentence than other forms of homicide. The professor told us this had not always been the case, but the penalties were lowered because juries would refuse to convict if the sentence was too harsh, perhaps reasoning that they themselves could easily be in that situation.
So while the alcohol industry does have a lot of political capital (in my state they use it to mandate minimum markups, under the guise of restricting availability), I think you can credit the American people for our unfortunate tolerance of DUI.
So while the alcohol industry does have a lot of political capital (in my state they use it to mandate minimum markups, under the guise of restricting availability), I think you can credit the American people for our unfortunate tolerance of DUI.
Aug 27th, 2006, 01:30 PM
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In Barcelona the other day I saw a completely naked man walking along the esplanade (on the pedestrian part. . . not the beach). The catch was that he had a red speedo tattooed onto his body (penis and testacles included) and a piercing on the tip of his penis, so at first I was like "what is that guy wearing?"
Mexico: we went to buy cookies at a private home (sent by a restaurant owner) and walked in the door only to see 4 men, 3 scales, and about 2,000 lbs of dried marijuana. They just sent us through to the kitchen to buy cookies.
Jamaica: a grass hut McDonalds.
Morocco: people constantly lying on the street wounded or killed by Vespas or motorcycles.
Mexico: we went to buy cookies at a private home (sent by a restaurant owner) and walked in the door only to see 4 men, 3 scales, and about 2,000 lbs of dried marijuana. They just sent us through to the kitchen to buy cookies.
Jamaica: a grass hut McDonalds.
Morocco: people constantly lying on the street wounded or killed by Vespas or motorcycles.
Aug 27th, 2006, 01:33 PM
#51
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<< rex, you do seem very passionate about this topic.. and i will whole-heartedly agree with you on this! >>
Yes, I do feel very passionate about this, and I can't put my finger on exactly why.
I agree that juries will not be sympathetic to long jail terms for DUI. Note that I do not propose ANY jail terms.
First offense: 1 month shackled, police-chauffered driving, with a $1000 penalty
Second offense, or cause an accident on your first offense: 1 year shackled, police-chauffeured driving, with a $10,000 penalty.
Third offense, or cause a fatality on first or second offense: handgun to the temple... cut you down cold in the street, just like your victim.
I've been watching "LOCKUP!" on MSNBC too much lately, I guess. The last thing we need in America is one more person incarcerated, for one more day. We're failing dismally with that whole approach to crime and punishment.
Yes, I do feel very passionate about this, and I can't put my finger on exactly why.
I agree that juries will not be sympathetic to long jail terms for DUI. Note that I do not propose ANY jail terms.
First offense: 1 month shackled, police-chauffered driving, with a $1000 penalty
Second offense, or cause an accident on your first offense: 1 year shackled, police-chauffeured driving, with a $10,000 penalty.
Third offense, or cause a fatality on first or second offense: handgun to the temple... cut you down cold in the street, just like your victim.
I've been watching "LOCKUP!" on MSNBC too much lately, I guess. The last thing we need in America is one more person incarcerated, for one more day. We're failing dismally with that whole approach to crime and punishment.
Aug 27th, 2006, 05:20 PM
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We have drive-up windows at some of the liquor stores here in North Florida, too. I had never heard of such a thing before we moved here.
I am also remembering a bathroom in Japan that was on the outer edge of a glass building, so it was effectively "private" from those in the building, but had lovely views from the stalls. I can't remember where we were, though. Sapporo, maybe? Wherever it was, there were no buildings so close as to pose a threat to modesty, but it still felt as though one was on display.
I am also remembering a bathroom in Japan that was on the outer edge of a glass building, so it was effectively "private" from those in the building, but had lovely views from the stalls. I can't remember where we were, though. Sapporo, maybe? Wherever it was, there were no buildings so close as to pose a threat to modesty, but it still felt as though one was on display.
Aug 27th, 2006, 06:15 PM
#56
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I love the pesto machine. I havent seen one but would love to.
I wonder what our McDonalds would be like if they served beer and wine?
SuQue
OMG how embarrassing for all of us...
We all need to vow to teach our children about the world !!!
I wonder what our McDonalds would be like if they served beer and wine?
SuQue
OMG how embarrassing for all of us...
We all need to vow to teach our children about the world !!!
Aug 27th, 2006, 09:18 PM
#57
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The first time we were on Anacapri for ten days at a hotel/resort the Germans would get out of the swiming pool and remove their wet bathing suit and put on a dry one at the side of the pool. Not a pretty sight LOL.
Aug 28th, 2006, 01:05 AM
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We were sunbaking on a beach on Serifos, when an old "quite large" greek couple wandered down next to us and commenced a nice conversation, combination greek/english about how we were enjoying Greece etc etc. They then completely stripped off and put there bathers on and went for a swim !!! It was difficult to know where to look as they filled quite a large amount of the horizon !! 
