I am clueless about train travel...

Old Sep 6th, 2004, 12:44 PM
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I am clueless about train travel...

Does anyone know of any websites or books to help understand train travel in Europe? We are planning a trip Switzerland, Paris, and Amsterdam next year and we will be using trains for transport.
1. Should any tickets be bought in the US ahead of time or do we wait until we get to Zurich for our 1st leg of the trip?
2. 1st or 2nd class? What is the major difference and is it worth it?
3. When going from the Alps to Paris do we need a car with a couchette? It looks like the distance is 7-8 hours.
4. On the longer train rides do they have a dining car?
5. Any advice on how to read the schedules or a site that tells you what to look for?

Sorry for all of the questions, but no one in our group has ever used train travel much less in a foreign country.Thanks!
ilovetulips is offline  
Old Sep 6th, 2004, 01:03 PM
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Here's one source, I'm sure others will provide you more. I usually wait until I get to europe to buy tickets and travel second class.

http://www.seat61.com/Europe.htm
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 01:11 PM
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degas, thanks for the website it is great. I have added it to my favorites so that I can read it in more depth.
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 01:12 PM
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1) I'd probably wait till I got to Europe to do the reservations, and they are rarely needed or even accepted in Switzerland except on a couple of the special scenic rides. But if you know by then which trains you want and when, you might go to a regular travel agent and buy all your tickets and reservations. They won't charge you and it is often much easier and quicker than doing it at a train station.
2) The differences are what you might expect. Seats are a little more comfortable and often more spacious in 1st than 2nd. Air conditioning is likely to work better in first. First is usually less crowded. Only you can decide if the difference in cost is "worth it" to you for a little more luxury.
3)I personally don't like the couchettes or even the compartment trains. The TGV from either Bern or Geneva (or Montreux or Lausanne) is great and quick.
4) Most longer rides have a dining car. I'm usually not very fond of them, and often we take a sort of "picnic" to eat on the train. Feel free to take along wine and great cheese and enjoy yourself at your seats. It will probably be better and cheaper than the dining car -- although there are a few exceptions to that rule on some special trains.
5) I think this is the best and easiest site to use. You should be able to figure it out in no time. Enter the start and end destinations (but you may need to use European names like Wien for Vienna), the date, and approximate time. And you can find just about everything you need (except the price). You can even click for "details" and find out what all the stops are.

www.reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

Have fun. I think train travel can be the greatest way to travel in Europe.

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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 01:40 PM
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Travel second class and you will never have to worry about meeting the locals. First class, we found, was for people traveling on a business expense account or Americans who didn't know better or people like m_kingdom2.

Italians, when lunchtime came, would make it a picnic, with everyone putting something in and taking something out.

Germans, on the other hand, tried to sneak their food out from under their coats, sharing with nobody. It looked as if they were feeding themselves out of their armpits!

British would prefer, we found, to eat nothing. The Scots, on the other hand, seemed to thrive on a liquid diet, especially if they were going to or from a soccer match. Sorry, "football" game.

Swedes slept.
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 01:48 PM
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>Travel second class and you will never have to worry about meeting the locals.<

This assumes that you worry about meeting the locals.

Actually, we have found very pleasant locals in first class. They also bring picnics.
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 01:48 PM
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I like first class when it's a trip of more than couple hours, but I'm not on that tight a budget and on my trips where I've done that, it wasn't that much more expensive.

It isn't true that only Americans and business people travel in first class in Europe. In fact, everyone I've met in first class has been a "local" and a European. None of them were businessmen, either. I remember meeting a traveling group of about four Austrians on a first-class train from Vienna to Prague who were going on a weekend holiday with another Austrian guy they knew who was sort of a tour guide, but not a big company. They were in their 30s, 40s and we had a great time discussing travel and politics and they even shared their drinks with me. They were really nice. Later, I met them in Krakow.

Lots of people in Europe travel in first class for the same reason I do. It's a little nicer, and we are older with decent jobs, and can afford to spend a little extra money for the comfort and space.
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 01:57 PM
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I can speak to Switzerland as I just returned from a trip and used the train quite a bit.

I have never bought a rail-pass but used point-to-point tickets. You can buy a ticket from a machine at the train station using cash or a credit card. Or you can go to a ticket seller booth and buy it there. Lastly, you can jump on the train and buy it from the conductor when they come thru (this has a slight surcharge but is handy in some situations).

The cars are clearly marked on the outside 1st & 2nd and smoking & non-smoking. The difference is 1st class is roomier, better air-con, and much less crowded. For instance during commuter rush hour between Geneva and Montreux, my friend who lives there recommended I spring for 1st class (I was glad I did as I'd just gotten off a very long plane ride and had 2 small pieces of luggage). That cost 52CHF, 2nd class would have been about 1/2 that price.

When traveling short distances (Montreux to Vevey for market day) we chose 2nd class.

The trains in Switzerland come exactly on time, so if you know which track number, you should just get on the train that appears at that time. Walk along the platform to get to 1st or 2nd class cars. Or if you feel rushed, just get on the train anywhere, then walk thru the compartments. There are toilets on each car.

Longer routes often have a dining car. Train stations most all have nice food available at a shop, so I'd grab a sandwich and beverage before getting on or pack a picnic dinner from the grocery store ahead of time. It's fine to bring wine.

As far as using a couchette, it depends on whether it is an overnight train (I think, even for a long distance during the day I don't believe they are offered). I would only take a couchette, or better yet 'wagon lit' (which is private 2 person, instead of sharing with 6 others in couchette) if it is truly an overnight journey and you're doing this instead of a hotel room.

Announcements of the stops will be made in several languages. Instruction signs on the trains are in French, Italian, and German. But over the loud speaker they also gave it in English.

Hope my ramblings help reassure you. The Swiss trains are a marvelous thing!
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 01:57 PM
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There's a good book called "France on the TGV;" it provides quite a lot of general information.
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 02:34 PM
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The one time we had to travel first class in Germany, the people in our section sure gave a good imitation of Germans.
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 03:30 PM
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Hi ilovetulips,

Here's another website with lots of information about train travel in Europe:

http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm

I particularly like this site because there are lots of pictures so you know what to expect -- in terms of the departure boards, seats, outside of the wagons, etc.

When you arrive in Zurich, you should know that the train station is right in the airport! After you claim your bags, exit baggage claim and follow the signs and pictures for the train. You'll go up an escalator, down some long hallways, then down two escalators to the train. You can buy your tickets at the ticket counter, no need to purchase in advance.

Enroute to the train station, be sure to stop at one of the grocery stores so you can enjoy a great picnic on the train! I like cheeses, bread, yogurt, water, and of course chocolate!!

In addition to the DB schedule website, I also like the one for the Swiss train system at www.rail.ch. To look for the schedule for you trip from Zurich airport, be sure to enter "Zurich airport" as the origin to distinguish from the main station in downtown Zurich. You'll know what time your train leaves, the track it'll be on, etc, so you'll be prepared even as you leave the airplane.

Hope this helps!

s
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 03:45 PM
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The decision to use 1st or 2nd class is very personla - and depends on your budget, your desire for comfort and the specific trips. We typically use 2nd for short trips - unless there's someting special going on (we used 1st to go to the track on racing days - since otherwise you're unlikely to get a seat).

For longer trips - 4/5 hours plus - we always use 1st - just because the seats are way more comfy - and who wants to be more uncomfortable for that length of time.

To tell you the truth train travel is usually so inexpensive that I would never hesitate to buy 1st - especially if you're not used to it.
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 04:30 PM
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Contrary to one opinion, but agreeing with most others... there were in fact real Swiss people in the 1st class cars.

An unasked for tip that will make your life so much smoother with alot of train travel, is if each person takes only one small rolling suitcase plus purse or shoulder bag. I saw some people schlepping amazingly unwieldly stuff (no wheels, floppy garmet bags, 3 pieces each person). You will be seeing more luggage carousels, stairs, escalators, narrow train steps and eisles, curbs, cobblestones, than you thought possible. Pack light!
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 04:39 PM
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1) Print this excellent guide:
http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/04railguideall.pdf

2) Enter your routes on www.railsaver.com and let it tell you if a pass would be better. http://www.railsaver.com/railsaver.asp

I believe you could use a 3-country pass if it were to be a good price for the number of travel days you might have. (Switzerland/France/Benelux - Benelux is treated as 1 country for the pass). Switzerland has other pass options which I don't fully understand. If you are going from a Swiss point directly to Paris, then directly to Amsterdam, the a pass would not be beneficial. Look for savings options when booking point-to-point tickets, such as France's 'Discovery Stay', 'PREM' etc (some highly discounted advance-purchase tickets are non-changeable/non-refundable).

Swiss rail: http://www.rail.ch/index_e.htm
France rail: www.sncf.com
Dutch rail: www.ns.nl
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 04:41 PM
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We travel first class on trains more often than second, especially for longer trips. My experience has been that I see many more tourists in second than in first -- except maybe on Saturdays or Sundays. Yes, there are a lot of business travelers in First, but mainly local ones from my point of view.

This summer on our longer trips in Italy, all our "companions" in our four seat areas were Italians. Fortunately all spoke English and we had great times with them. One was a guy who worked and lived in Rome going to Venice for the weekend to have dinner with his parents for a birthday. From Venice to Chiusi we were joined in Padua by two sisters who were traveling to the island of Ponza for a two week vacation. And on a trip from Salerno to Rome, we were joined by a mother who spoke no English at all and her high school aged son who practiced his English with us, while his proud mother beamed. On that trip I got a good peak in the closest second class car which was filled to the brim with American backpackers.
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 05:05 PM
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Good lord, I must have forgot to wear my backpack when I sat in second class and also cover my face in shame when boarding.

Seriously, on trips of less than four hours, I don't think its a big factor - its not as if you were sitting on wooden planks and surrounded by farm animals - but I have seen that in asia!
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 05:14 PM
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I'm so old I can testify that there was -- once upon a time -- a third class in France, Italy, and Germany. Hard, uncushioned planks for seats, local and long distance. For us, we traveled in box cars, dark red ones with a little tiny window with a sliding cover and barbed wire over the opening on some. We suspected what they were used for at one time. The toilet? Sure. Whenever the car stopped or slowed down. Just hang it out the open door. First class? The officers rode there. Only it was a boxcar, too. They had the same straw on their floor. Same toilet.
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 05:51 PM
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To original poster:

It is much better to buy your tickets in Euros, from a European company rather than Raileurope. The rates seemed to be 30 to 40% higher on Raileurope than on Deutschbahn, who will happily sell you tickets over the web--railpasses included. Deutschbahn has a fabulous rail site which will configure almost any trip you can imagine in Europe. The data base is fast and accurate. If you give it a street address, it will actually tell you how to walk to train station. They don't always have prices for trips outside of Germany, but they have schedules, and they have a button to click for English speakers. Try them: www.bahn.de
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Old Sep 6th, 2004, 07:37 PM
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I really need a seat that faces forward (motion sickness) especially on a longer trip, so on a very crowded train getting a less crowded car would make it worth the 1st class ticket price alone.
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Old Sep 7th, 2004, 01:07 AM
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Re meeting the "locals" in First vs. Second.

You can meet "locals" in both classes IF they don't mind "mmeting" total strangers.

The locals you'll meet in First are just like the locals you'll meet in Second (once you've dispensed with all the American tourists in Second who are trying to meet the locals, too).

The biggest difference I've found is that the locals in First were simply more willing to pay to sit there than the locals in Second!

Have a reat trip and enjoy Seat61..it is wonderful.
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