Every year I plan a vacation and I scan this site for information and I can't begin to say what a great help it has been. This year has been no different. We first started out as a party of four going to London and Ireland. With the help of this site I learned that Ireland is basically a trip in itself. Then, our party of four turned into a party of eight. Me, my wife, my daugnter, niece, nephew, brother and sister in law, and my mother-in-law (believe it or not she is the least of the problems). I would like to thank all of you because your postings have given me a lot of information to plan my trip. Here is what I have so far. Any comments or advise would be appreciated (expecially restaurants)
Dy 1- arivve london 8:30am arrive Grosvner Hotel park la london pm misc sightseeing
dinner?
Day2 London sightseeing (maybe a city tour or walking tour)
eve dinner cruise thames
day 3 Tour to bath, stonehedge eve dinner theatre?

day 4 sightseeing 6:30 pm fly from Gatwick to venice airport

9:40 arrive venice transfer to metropole hotel
day 5 vince sightseeing dinner Acqua Pazza
day 6 venice, dinner lido
day 7 tour to verona for 3hours lunch, sightseeing (with guide) then on to Grand Tremezzo Palace hotel lake Como dinner lake como
day 8 Tour to st moritz, mountain tunnel, laguna lake area.... dinner ?
day 9 am golf for me and my brother in law, shopping in como for my wife et al
pm ferry to bellagio, sightseeing, dinner
day 10 check out am picked up and taken to Milan, shopping sightseeing lunch then driven to venice airport and fly at 9pm from venice to london check in gatwick hilton
day 11 am fly home
I know this sounds "busy" but for "family" reasons venice was a must do so I hope I made good use of the wisdom that I have found on this site. Again, I would be grateful for any advice.

I can only comment on the London portion of your trip. The first two days, since you haven't given any details as to what you'll be seeing, it's kind of hard to comment. You'll want to make a list of your "must-sees" and figure out a game plan from that.

The day you want to go to Stonehenge and Bath, it would be very difficult to be back in London in time for theatre. Stonehenge is a good distance from Bath so you would either need to take an organized tour that included both, or take the train to Bath, then take a tour from there to Stonehenge. Personally, I think it's too much to do in one day. The train to Bath is about a 2 hour trip and there will be plenty there to see and do to fill an entire day.

I agree about that Bath and Stonehenge day. Don't plan on theatre for sure, it will be a long day whether you take a tour or go on your own. Bath is great, I'd devote the whole day to it. Train is about 90 minutes from London, and the city center is a 10-15 minute walk from Bath train station. You will eventually walk past the Tourist Info Center, which offers tours, and then you can explore on your own.

You also are allowing only one day in Venice. If it's a must-do (and I love it there) then do skip one of your other short stops (Verona? St Moritz) and spend a second day, at least, in Venice.

I just realized that I misread, and you do have two days in Venice. Still, for less wear and tear, I'd skip either Verona or the Milan bit. It hardly seems worth it when you have to return to Venice anyway.

Thank's for your replies. I was thinking about an organized tour that included bath and stonehedge and windsor.
Elaine, we are spending three nights and two full days in Venice, having been there before I figured that this would be enough. Verona is on the way to lake como and I enjoy seeing places I haven't seen before Kayb95 I plan on visiting the usual "must sees" in london I will take your advice and plan the theatre on another night I would love to take a day trip to paris but i think that would not leave enough time for London (would have to give up bath and stonehedge which i dont think is wise)
do you have any comments on what to see in the lake region I figured hiring a mini bus with driver and guide would be the best way to get around with a party of eight st moritz sounds interesting as well as the entire lake region in general

"I plan on visiting the usual "must sees" in london"

In 2 days????

With a group of 8, you will be lucky to get in two major sites a day. The day you fly to Venice won't really even be a 1/2 day for sightseeing. You will have to be at Victoria Station for the Gatwick Express by 3:30 or 4 p.m. and with the packing and travel to Victoria you really will only have until lunch time in London. And if you decide on a car service - that will mean a 60 to 90 minute drive so you will have even less time.

How many of you have been to London before? Bath/Windsor/Stonehenge is a good but quite rushed tour. Unless you are old London hands I strongly recommend you drop that plan and stay in London.

Even then you will only have 3 days and will not begin to scratch the surface or see more than a handful of the "must sees"

Janis let me re-phrase that. what I meant by "must sees" is as much of the major London sights (e.g. tower of london, changing of the guard, etc.) as possible in the two and one half days withoout going crazy. A big part of the experience is just "being there" and trying to enjoy london without the anxiety of having to see everything. I realize that time is limited but I think the bath and stonehedge are important to see. If you had the amount of time we do what would your list of "must sees" include?

Hi frank,

I don't wish to be mean, but my first thought is that this is a plan for disaster.

To quote Winston Churchill, "This pudding has no theme".

2.5 days in London.
A trip to Bath and Stonehenge and back in time for dinner?
2 days in Venice
day trip to St Moritz
One day devoted to golf or shopping?
a day on Lake Como
a day in Milan
Day 10 return to Venice to fly to London at 9PM - dinner?
Can't you fly home from Milan?

My second thought is to drop London and spend your time in Venice and vicinity.

I hope that you can work this out to everyone's satisfaction.

Frank, I, too, don't wish to be mean but your itinerary is so much rushing around to so many places that you are unlikely to see much of anything. With a group the size of yours, simplicity is the best plan. It will take you much longer to do and see things in a large group. You have 10 days. I would limit your trip to London and Venice, flying into London and out of Venice. With 5 days for each, you can include side trips to Bath, Stonehenge and Verona.

I think you will see more and remember the vacation with more fondness if there is less rushing from place to place and more time to enjoy where you are.

I think ira's suggestion (about dropping London) is excellent. You are losing so much time on inter-city travel.
If London was the original idea, and you must stick with that, have a few days there, have a daytrip. If you must have days somewhere else and you don't want it to be in the lovely UK, then fly to Paris for a couple of days. Save Italy for another time.

Let me add an analogy for the USA. I'm not counting the miles between cities exactly, but most people wouldn't plan a trip to New York for a couple of days,include a daytrip, then fly to Chicago for two days, then spend a day or two on Lake Michigan, then drive to Detroit to fly back to New York to stay overnight just to fly home the next day.

Is it also possible not to split your time in London between the beginning and the end? If you must fly into and out of London, then how about on your first arrival day, just change planes and fly on to Venice. You will be tired,but it's pretty much a tired day anyway, might as well get the longest leg of the journey over with. See London for consecutive days at the end.

frankpkeller: Don't mean to pile on here but mamc, elaine, ira and I all think your London bit is a diaster. And I'm really not over stating it.

"the major London sights (e.g. tower of london, changing of the guard, etc.) as possible in the two and one half days withoout going crazy. A big part of the experience is just "being there" and trying to enjoy london without the anxiety of having to see everything. I realize that time is limited but I think the bath and stonehedge are important
to see."

OK - lets work this out -- you are traveling w/ EIGHT people. Now I hope you are not all going to be joined at the hip for the full trip - but even a group of 5 or 6 people will need at least 4 hours to see the Tower. the Changing of the guard takes (wastes) a LOT of time because you have to be there at least an hour ahead of time just to get a viewing point.

in 2 1/2 days, w/ the first day pretty much lost to jet lag for at least some of your group, you really will not "experience just being there". And Bath and StoneHENGE are terrific places - but they will take a full day out of an already very short visit.

If it was just you - or maybe a young active couple this itinerary would be barely doable. But with 8 people in tow EVERYThING will take much longer -- transport, dithering about what to do, meals, museums, tours - just everything.

Whereas one person can zip around on the tube and run up and down the stairs/escalators, read the tube map on the fly, make quick decisions to change routes when a tube station is closed, etc -- when you are trying to keep track of 8 people every trip around town will be an adventure waiting to happen.

You only have 10 days - re-think all that is involved and think about how much running around you want to do with an army in tow . . . . . . .

If the Changing of the Guard is a definite must-see, you can plan on that taking 1/2 of your day. As mentioned, you will need to get there at least an hour before hand and you won't be done with it until 12 or 12:30. With such limited time in London, I would re-think it. It's actually one of the few things we've done in London that I considered a waste of time - and we didn't see it until our 5th trip.

The last time we were in London, we had 4 days. It was not nearly enough time to see the major sights. Our one day trip, Kew and Hampton Court, took a lot longer than we anticipated. I think the idea to stick to 2 cities - London, Venice - is a good one. You will see many things and not be frantic with all the traveling from place to place. Skip the golf and don't spend a whole day shopping!

Wow! thanks for the feedback! I realize it is an aggressive itinery but it I think I can pull it off. This is not the first time we have done a busy trip like this. I like the idea of a two city plan but most of us have been to venice before and I hear so much about the italian lake region. Through experience I have learned that the best way to "move" us around is through private tours (mini bus w/guide and driver). I think after checking in on wed and simply adjusting wed aft and eve we could take a city tour (full day) on thurs. this would let us see some of the sights and make it easier to get around. I also understand that Bath and stonehedge are a full day but "how could we not?" Sat would also be for london as we are flying out early sat eve. I realize it is a short time but i equate it to a long weekend in NY. Can't see everything, but it is still fun. We arrive late in venice and I think two days in venice is enough (again not to see everything). It will be easier in venice for us to get around (and I have been there twice before) so i dont think a tour is needed. we will be picked up in venice and taken to verona and then to lake como. The hotel I booked is more "resort-ish" and we may even blow off golf and relax (but not to play golf in the italian alps????) Again two full day tours solve the logistics problem and also gets us back to venice airport. A free day (if we don't play golf) allows us to take the ferry to bellagio (could we still go there in the afternoon after 1 pm?). I know it sounds like a crazy trip but i have done this type of trip before (draggen my mother in law from paris to venice to rome to sorrento and back to rome in 12 days) she a real trooper and loves to travel. we are a close knit family and have done this kind of thing many times before. If it were up to me i would just do london, amsterdam and paris but my sister in law has her heart set on venice so why not? Tips like the info on the changing of the guard are very helpful (i think we will skip it) I also learned on this site that the hilton at gatwick is connected to the south terminal and booked us in there(even got free rooms with points)_
any advice like that can make this trip not only doable but also enjoyable. Many thanks again for all your input.

Wow! thanks for all the feedback! I realize that this is a very busy itinery but as a family we have done this kind of thing before. I have found through experience that the best way to get around is to book private tours (mini bus with driver and guide) If it were up to me I would do london, amsterdam and paris but my sister in law has her heart set on venice so why not? and if if am going to go to venice (where i have been before) I would love to see the lake region. I think that staying three night in each place does make it a little easier allthough i do understand the logistics. Tips like the changing of the guards taking too much time (i think we will skip it) and about the hilton at gatwick being connected to the south terminal are very helpful ( i even got two rooms free with points). Any more suggestions would be helpful I now understand that bath and stonehedge are a full day but seem important to see. I think the important thing is to fight the urge to try to "see everything&quot and to limit the "must sees" to what is feasible in the time alloted. Some input on what those are (particularly in London) would be very helpful. Many thanks again!

sorry about the double posting something went wrong with my screen

the trip is yours to make, but you asked for suggestions and comments and many were offered. It seems that you're not acting on any of them, but you are asking for more?

I'm w/ elaine for sure. You have been given some very good advice/cautions but seem to glide right over all of them and are pretty sure what you want to do.

Go on your trip and enjoy it.

(BTW it is Stonehenge . . . . )

Janis and /Elaine- please don't misunderstand me. The advice I have received has helped me. It is not my intention to appear stubborn. Unfortunately, I am locked into the three main destinations. I am just trying to make the best of it. I think I can make it work and please believe me, I am heading the advice I received on this thread. As I said in previous posting we will skip the changing if the guards, and Bath and Stonehenge (see Janis, I even learned how to spell Stonehenge)are out. We will stay in London for the 4 days and three nights and do the best we can there. What I am asking for is any info or nuances that will make my trip a little easier. I know from experience that there is a lot of knowledge out there on this site and I do indeed respect that and hope to take advantage of it. Any time one takes a vacation this exciting the imagination has a habit of taking flight over the possibilities and I guess I am asking for a little help in getting grounded.