MHS

klondike, you missed my point -- <BR>being able to appreciate a Rubens or Pissaro does not require a knowledge of their native language -- or even a background in art appreciate/history (which I have). recognizing architural styles &amp; ages does not require knowledge of a foreign language. while my pleasure in a garden is increased by knowing the Latin name, common name &amp; care needs of a flower, those really are not pre-requirements for enjoyment. <BR><BR>My point was that travel, for likely most of us (after all Fodors, From..., etc. make a profit by selling books to just such travel-for-pleasure-only individuals), is not about entering a &quot;people's psyche&quot; or &quot;more fully understand/appreciate the people&quot;. And, I wonder how you do have meaningful interaction with the common housewife when traveling since travel interaction is with hotel/restuarant/ taxi-train service people, not the housewife or insurance salesman, etc. Actually I &quot;talk&quot; more with women in France, Belgium, England in my quilt group than I ever have on vacation. <BR> <BR>

mrwunrfl

<BR>I didn't learn any Portuguese before I went to Rio in November. <BR><BR>a) I fared ok. It was a bit frustrating at times and I felt like a dope a few times. I learned some of the basics after I got there. I picked up a program at the Gavea race track. It was Portuguese, of course. They were also showing racing from Sao Paulo. I asked a guy, by pointing at the program and then pointing down to the ground, if the program was for Gavea or not. He said it was. It wasn't. Knowing a bit of Spanish helped.<BR>b) I definitely regretted it. After saying &quot;bom gia&quot;, I would just launch into English, without apology. I felt bad about this.<BR>c) The people were very kind about my not knowing the language and they did respond well to the few words I learned along the way. In the tourist area, they were patient. At a couple places off the well beaten tourist path, I was treated a bit like a child (or so I felt).<BR>d) I did it again. A month later, I went back to Sao Paulo and on to Buenos Aires, without studying Portuguese or brushing up on my Spanish. Both places were not as touristy as Rio, so my interactions were more difficult, though I didn't experience any rudeness. Maybe the Argentines speak with a particular accent, or I wasn't listening well, because I had a hard time understanding any of the Spanish. I actually used some Portuguese when I got to B.A.<BR><BR>On this forum, I will try to avoid criticizing people for:<BR>learning or not learning languages<BR>driving vs riding the train<BR>tour bus vs on your own.<BR><BR>I'd rather encourage people, especially Americans, to travel to other countries however they choose to do it.<BR>

doc_

Trying to speak the native language of the country always seemed to get me in trouble. like a previous poster said,hello,thank you,some main dishes and pleasantries works fine. Sometimes,knowing the word but not how to pronounce it can be deadly.Or trying to speak french with a few thrown in english words males it hard for them to comprehend.

suze

a) fared just fine<BR>b) no regrets<BR>c) people reacted kindly<BR>d) sure i'd do it again<BR>This was in Switzerland and Paris without French and Venice without Italian, five trips total.<BR><BR>I believe it *is* in your attitude - open, friendly, soft spoken, smile and eye contact, and expecting success...<BR><BR>(but since our OP specifically asked not to hear the &quot;nice gets nice&quot; philsophy I have no more to post ;-)

RufusTFirefly

Sure, brush up on that college German. I did last year and was pleasantly surprised to see how much of it came back to me after just a couple of days in Germany. Couldn't carry on in-depth conversations with people, but I could get the gist of information signs for museum exhibits and such, figure out most menu items, and pass pleasentries with folks on trains, in beer gardens, over breakfast, etc. But I've also been in countries where I spoke none of the language, and while there were certainly problems it wouldn't be enough to stop me from going.

cmt

Here's an interesting thread on this question:<BR><BR>http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessa...mp;keyword=117

realtor

This may seem an odd perspective. The first time I went to Spain was with my then 6yr.old while my husband worked. As we were there for a 3 week period we sort of fell into a schedule until one day everything {Prado,store,cafe]was closed. We made a song up about Spain es Cerrado....we still sing today but we never figured out why it was &quot;closed&quot;! I am sure a knowledge of the language would have prevented our surprise but our surprise was memorable. Forced us to slow down, walk around much more and like someone who is deaf we were more visually alert. When u cannot hear I think u see more.<BR>Now I never think of it and have travelled to many parts of Germany [bought a beautiful plate by pantomime!] Spain,Italy and France. I was somewhat nervous about Japan but being visually alert kept me from getting lost. Bangkok had a guide ...there I do admit to being overwhelmed. Being able to recognize the letters and figure out the words and being willing to make a fool of yourself helps. Makes me wonder if just reading it before u go would help. I look forward to more adventures with all the nuances of communication.

Lexma90

I definitely am in the group of &quot;learn as much of the language as you can.&quot; Of course, the amount that's learned varies greatly depending on how much time you have to do so before your trip, and your ability to pick up new languages &amp; accents. Knowing even a few words makes communicating easier, especially when you add to that sign language and drawing pictures! Also keep in mind that even if you can't speak it, you'll be better able to decipher signs, etc.<BR><BR>Over the course of several trips to France, I've noticed a bit of a change, and I don't really think I can attribute it much to my linguistic ability. I try to conjugate my verbs, but while I can understand quite a bit of simple speech, most of my responses are limited to yes and no (those French verbs just fade from my brain)! But I have noticed less of a tendancy of the French to automatically switch to English when hearing my pathetic French, and I appreciate that, because it gave me a chance to practice. I even had several people ask me if I wanted to speak in French or English. <BR><BR>I also noticed that people (for example, the wait staff types who bring you more bread) who were less likely to know English also seemed less likely to want to talk to us, even though we could have exchanged pleasantries and had those simple conversations (but they couldn't know that).<BR><BR>Maybe the point at which people are more likely to stick with their native tongue, rather than switching to English, is not fluency, or even semi-fluency on the part of the traveler, but being able to say something (however badly) that indicates that the speaker might understand a response in the native tongue. For example, when on my most recent trip, at a market in rural France, I would go up to a cheese stall, and instead of just pointing, or saying &quot;I would like cheese,&quot; (both of which I've definitely done!), I could say in French, &quot;I would like some cheese, very mild, my husband doesn't like strong cheese.&quot; Even if I messed up a verb, and my accent was poor, maybe the cheese vendor felt confident enough that I'd understand an answer in French that he could reply in French.<BR><BR>Of course, the risk with understanding some of a language is that you get a response that contains the two words you understand and are listening for, but means something else entirely! For example, &quot;I'd like a room with a view,&quot; could be answered with &quot;I know you'd like to stay here, but we've given all the rooms to a group from Borneo, though we have a beautiful room in our cheaper hotel many miles away!&quot; I'd hear &quot;room,&quot; &quot;beautiful&quot; and no negatives, and not the word &quot;complet,&quot; and think I had a place to stay! Someday I'll get land myself in that situation...