We want to spend as much time as we can taking in all of the wonderful locations for our Honeymoon in May. Does anyone recommend taking the train at night (sleeper?) to travel from one destination to the next?

On your honeymoon??? I would rather stick a sharp pencil in my eye - or spend my honeymoon in the in-laws spare bedroom!

Are the night trains that bad??? We are taking the Orient-Express from Venice to Paris, however we are planning to take trains from Vienna to Lucerne & from Lucerne to Rome (each 10 hour rides). We will be giving up 2 full days if we take trains during the day. What do you think?

I envy you the Orient Express. I don't envy you any other European night train. If it were me I pare down my itinerary rather than take one.

oh, it's not THAT bad!

We did Venice-Paris last year (along with 2 Talgo Spanish trains) and the Venice-Paris train cabin was filthy (we were in a 4-bed 1st class cabin). The trains are much, MUCH older.
(We loved the Talgo ones though).
However, you'll survive and have a grand adventure. Just remember to line everything you sit on with the blankets they provide you.

Seriously, if I were you I would not hesitate to take an overnight train, but take heed of two things:
1. make sure you put a limit on how many you want to take. Personally, on a honeymoon I would probably only take 1 or 2 overnight trains MAXIMUM.

2. try to get a first class cabin, maybe a private two-berth cabin if cost is no objection, and make the best of it.

Beware!!!!!! I've heard that night trains are very dark making it hard to see the "wonderful locations for your honeymoon".

Curious

That sounds like traveling back and forth around Europe a lot--are you going from Vienna to Luzern then down to Rome then back from Venice to Paris? I can see your point about the Vienna to Lucerne trip, and the Orient Express is obviously an experience in itself (although won't save you time over a flight), but I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on overnight regular trains.

I thought the Orient Express cost about $2000 per person. I'd rather take another trip for that amount, but can understand that special experience may be attractive. The other routes aren't appealing to do at night, and I don't like overnight trains much -- really wouldn't on a honeymoon. What kind of sleeping arrangements would that be? I'd probably change my itinerary than all those long train trips.

We took the night train fron Krakow to Prague - and we hope to never have that experience again. I give you one word of advice - FLY.

The only way I would recommend a night train is if you made reservations for a 2 person couchette (sp?). There is no way I would recommend a 4 or 6 berth or even regular seating. My husband and I made that mistake before and it was our most miserable travel experience. We spent the whole next day sleeping.
Something else to consider is what type of sleeper you are. If you are a light sleeper, forget it.
I'll agree with others that this is not the most romantic way to travel (think bunk beds). But from your other posts I see that you've been married for awhile and this is a delayed honeymoon. It is also the only way I can figure that you'll really get to see anything in between all of your very long train rides.

We went on the Artesia overnight from Paris to Rome for exactly the same reason---we did not want to waste a day on the trip. I was traveling with my 13-year-old son, and we both had books to read. It was cramped, but it really was not that bad. Presumably,you and your intended will have lots to talk about on the trip. Intimacy is all about shared experiences, and even if the train ride is not fabulously romantic, I'll bet you look back on it with great fondness 20 years from now.

ps we were in a two person couchette and it was fine---just like being on a ship, with all the clever uses of space. If price is no object, first class would be even better.

This is really concerning me. When I asked about this before, I got a couple of less than positive responses about the train. But, on the whole, people acted like it was a good experience that was fun because you can't experience it in the US (most of the time). I'm a pretty sound sleeper, so I wasn't that worried about that part.

so, I went and bought the 60E Mini C fare for the Artesia train from Paris to Rome.

Now all of your posts have me worried. I hate sleeping in filth and all of you make it sound like its the worst thing that ever happened to you. Should I be buying a Ryanair ticket and just take the nonrefundable train fare as a loss?

Just because ONE train from Venice to Paris was filthy for one poster does not mean that ALL trains are. That's like visiting Rome and deciding it's so filthy you won't go to Paris.

I'm not sure what kind of sleeping accomodations you will have for 60Euros. Our fares (1 adult and 1 youth) combined were a bit more than $400--it was much more expensive than flying, but then, the planes weren't flying in the middle of the night. I personally would not feel comfortable sleeping in a "train dorm" with strangers. However, 30 years ago I probably wouldn't have hesitated.

I did a night train twice. I can't remember the first route (I think it was either Zurich-Barcelona or Munich-Barcelona) but the second was Barcelona-Milan.

First class sleeper both times. That is the ONLY way I would have done the night train. I was by myself and felt much better that way. It was clean, but nothing luxurious, despite what "first class" my connote to people. Very small and two small bunk beds. Fortunately, I was alone, so the top bunk was stored away. I brought my own food so I just hunkered down for the night and had myself a fun little picnic.

If you're going to do it, I agree to do it once or twice max. Otherwise, definitely fly. I did not wake up refreshed either time..and I am a pretty heavy sleeper.

60E is a special for the first class couchette. So, I will be sharing with 3 other people.

I will be traveling by myself from Paris to Rome (where I will meet my friend who lives there). Since I will be by myself, I wouldn't have been able to have a cabin by myself or with people I knew (although, I suppose I could have bought the other berth in a 2 person sleeper, I would really rather not spend that much money).

I'm in my late 20s and I thought it might be a fun experience. However, I'm not a big fan of filth, so perhaps it won't be so fun.

I didn't do RyanAir because people talk non-stop about the hassle of getting to Beauvais, etc. Also, the ryanair flight that I could take was leaving at 9:45 and arriving at 11:45 in Rome. I figured by the time I got to my friernd's place it would be at least 1am and I didn't want to make her wait up that late. However, I'm sure she would understand if it was a matter of safety and avoiding unsanitary conditions- if its really the way people are suggesting it is.

Hi,
yes, the Artesia 1st class cabin I was in was filthy, as I posted before, and I think I need to clarify what I mean by filthy, if it will help you in any way.
1. I am in my late 20s and I have visited Europe several times, so I am quite used to things being a bit older and sometimes not so spik-and-span. However, the cabin I was in had very, and I mean very, dirty seats. Our companions' seats were dirty as well. I peeked in the next cabin but didn't look that much better. What do I mean by dirty? Stained, looking 20+ years old, unidentifiable black spots in a few places.
Having said that, however, the rest of the cabin was swept and the toilets were quite clean and had enough toilet paper, even late through the night.

The halls were all right. Not sparking, but not as bad as some Eastern European trains. So really, other than the stained upholstery, my partner and I tolerated the Artesia.
Would we travel it again? OF course.

Personally, I wouldn't fly Ryanair over using a train ticket already bought. With the hassle of the awkward time travel, getting to the airport, etc, you will probably feel more comfortable on the train anyway. Just my opinion.

Don't let what I said previously stop you from taking the Artesia. You might, as some suggest, end up in a newer train. But you can also make the best of it, and yes, it will be an adventure.
Again, don't let it stop you. I would still take the overnight train. Just not that often!!!!

The train that was said to be filthy turns out to have had some stains on seats and floors. It is true that this can happen if you are in old stock, but it is not true of all 4-berth couchette compartments, is rare in 2-berth sleepers with bathrooms at ends of corridors, and is not true at all of two-berth compartments with a shower and bathroom en suite. So if I were in the honeymoon couple I would ask my booking agent to quote me the costs of grading up to a two-berth sleeper. That way you have more likelihood of newer cars so no stains, and you have nobody keeping lights on, or waking early: you set your own times. In practice the stains may be hard to find, as most of the time the beds are made up, with crisp white linen.

There are a detailed and able survey of rail travel, country by country at http://www.seat61.com/, and a note on getting the best from sleepers and couchettes at http://www.geocities.com/rexbickers/...ghttrains.htm/.

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In the late 90s, we took a night train (first class) from Madrid to Barcelona. The cabin was small and had two bunk beds and its own bathroom. It was not pretty at all but was clean. I have taken night trains in non-European countries a while back and I was surprised how small this cabin was!!! We were short of time and the night train saved us some time. I think sleeping in a hotel bed is definitely more comfortable. But night train has its own advantages.

There are somke night services that actually offer a 1st Class compartment with a true double bed..the so-called "matrimonial" compartment.

Re-read some of the responses above: how many of these people have ACTUALLY taken a night train? How many of them decided they had to "svae a lot of money" and travel like a bunch of dormitory rats and then wondered why they call it "second class"???

If this is the Orient Express described here: http://www.orient-express.com/web/oe/c3a_trains.jsp

I don't see that you have much to worry about.

I recall your itinerary, and still wish you would leave out Lucerne in favour of Salzburg and even maybe a night in Villach or Klagenfurt en route to Venice from Vienna. (There are gorgeous mountain lakes near Salzburg, BTW). It would be far better to return to Europe for Lucerne and make it the centrepiece of the trip, instead of turning 2 10-hour long train trips to accomodate it! One long train journey, even if on the luxurious Orient Express, is enough for one trip, since when all's said and done, it's still just a train.