lisa

The love of my life & I are flying from Washington DC to Amsterdam to Johannesburg on NW/KLM in late November of this year on our honeymoon (9 days on safari in Kruger & Sabi Sands followed by 6 days in Cape Town). After saving up our frequent flier miles, we are now booked in World Business class (hooray!), flying into Johannesburg & back home out of Cape Town. The catch is that the only available frequent flier seats they had were to leave DC on a Thursday pm, arrive in AMS Friday morning, lay over in AMS all day Friday & Friday night, and leave AMS Saturday morning for arrival in JNB Saturday evening. So for now, those are our tickets, and we are waitlisted to leave a day later and avoid the 24+ hour layover in Amsterdam. The question is, if something opens up to leave a day later, should we go ahead and change our tickets and pay the $100 change fee, or should we keep our current tickets and have a day & night in Amsterdam? I'm torn. I've been to Amsterdam once before and loved it -- especially the museums and the Anne Frank House -- but that was almost 12 years ago now, and it was in the summertime when the weather was gorgeous. Fiance has never been there and would like to see the Van Gogh museum in particular. But this will be late November (probably not great weather), and we are wondering whether it will be worth the trouble to get into the city from the airport (although as I recall that's actually quite easy), check into a hotel, etc., just for one day. On the one hand, it might break up the long trip. On the other hand, it might just be a hassle for very little time to actually enjoy the city, and we could save a vacation day by leaving a day later. And we can always see Amsterdam another time when we have more time to enjoy it.

If it were you, what would you do? And while you're at it, if you were going to stay in Amsterdam for only one night on your honeymoon, and wanted to either use hotel points for your stay because cost is a consideration (Starwood, Hilton, Radisson, or Priority Club) or stay in a very nice moderately priced hotel (preferably under $125-$150), and also wanted to stay in a central location so that you could walk to museums & restaurants, where would you stay?

Also, we've never flown World Business Class on NW/KLM -- how is it in terms of food, entertainment, etc.? Since we are flying in World Business, will we get to use NW/KLM's World Club at the airport in Amsterdam, and if so, what is it like (e.g. do they have showers, what kinds of food/beverages, etc.?).

And are there any particular seats that you would recommend we request on our flights (I'm sure we'll be thrilled no matter what our seats are after years of flying coach, but it's our honeymoon, and I'd like it to be as special as possible).

Thanks Fodorites!

rex

<<Since we are flying in World Business, will we get to use NW/KLM's World Club at the airport in Amsterdam, and if so, what is it like (e.g. do they have showers, what kinds of food/beverages, etc.?).>>

It's been seven years since I flew NW/KLM in business class, but I believe that the answer to the World Club question is yes - - and I think that you may find it more useful at departure time - - both from Washington (if they have one there, and I suspect that they do) and from Amsterdam prior to your departure to Johannesburg. It adds an element of civility and comfort to these now-mandatory longer times in airport prior to departure.

Don't recall about showers; there may be a small fee to use one.

But I don't see the need. I think that the stopover time in Amsterdam is not a substantial negative (though I have never flown to South Africa, direct or otherwise). I would go straight into the city and make yourself comfortable at the accommodations of your choice there.

If it fits in your budget, the Pulitzer would make a great first honeymoon night in Europe.

Whatever your choices, congratulations on your new life in marriage... and...

Best wishes,

Rex

ira

Hi

If you are flyinf NW to AMS, you can look at www.seatguru.com for suggestions as to best seats.

I would do a day and night in Amsterdam.

Intrepid

I can comment about a little of this. Yes, it is very easy to get into downtown by train from Schiphol..about a 15-minute ride. As you may recall there is a ticket office and rail station in the main entrance area of the airport. It is up to you but you might consider staying at one of the airport hotels rather than trying to get a place in town. I am not convinced that finding a place in the center, schlepping the luggage there and back is worth it for 24 hours..and staying at the airport isn't going to feel like you aren't in the Netherlands. Of course, the advantage of being IN town is you have a bit more flexibility to pop in and out of the hotel during the stay and it might seem more romantic, too. You can check on the airport situation at www.schiphol.nl
If you've got the time and the money to do this I would go for it...in business class or not these can be long flight segments and if you're going to be in Amsterdam anyway, well...

Boots

I fly NW Business class to Europe several times a year. My preference is the upper tier where there are only 12 seats. The row numbers are in the 80s. The food and drink is far superior to Economy, but not as good as it was a few years ago. You can find seat maps at www.nwa.com.
I don't think flying Business Class allows you to use their lounges at the airport, but you might ask.
If your points cover the Sheraton, why not try the Sheraton at the Airport. We stayed there in November. There is a covered walkway from the Airport to the Hotel. Breakfast is good. It would eliminate schlepping those bags into the city and back.
Congratulations and have a good time. Your time in Africa sounds wonderful.
Boots

TC

I believe you can get into the Business Class lounge in Amsterdam when flying WBC, but I am not certain. You may have to be a World Club member for access. You will need to be a WCM to get into the Club in Washington, DC. Call NW/KLM Airline to be sure.

I agree, we like sitting upstairs.
Much quieter. Do not sit in exit row seats. That is where everyone stands when they get tired of sitting. We like bulkhead seats.

When flying to Nairobi, we spent two days in Amsterdam. It was a wonderful break. We left luggage in lockers at the airport and took small bags into the city. Stay at the Canal House near the Ann Frank house. It is very special. You can read lots of posts on this board about it. We were there in January and walked around a lot. I should think November will be very nice.

Andre

Lisa,

Definitely break up you loooong journey in AMS!

Boots has a great idea regarding the Sheraton at the airport. There's also a Hilton, but it's older and a short shuttle ride away, as well as a Radisson and a Crowne Plaza which are still further.

Nevertheless, if you want to stay in the thick of things I would recommend the AMERICAN Crowne Plaza, a renovated historic hotel in a great location. Pulitzer (Starwood Luxury Collection) is very attractive but location is not as central. Marriott is right near the American, but ugly modern.

Re: the KLM lounge in AMS - you can definitely use it. It's large, but they often rope off a section so it can feel crowded anyway. I wasn't particularly impressed - does it show? . I imagine they have showers (check the KLM site for details), but they might charge - they did for using an internet terminal...

Have

Cicerone

I will be the contrarian here and say do everything you can to change your tickets and take the other flight. This is doubly the case if the flight on which you are waitlisted is direct/non-stop to J-burg or with a short layover in another city. $100 is a very small price to pay to avoid what will be an extremely long 2-3 days. Amsterdam is very far north, so you are essentially flying out of your way and then will have to head south a greater distance. You will fly overnight to Amsterdam, be jetlagged and have only 24 hours there, then have another 14-19 hour flights to South Africa. (I did a quick look on Epedia and it looks like your KLM flight from Amsterdam to J-burg connects in London; another reason to avoid this flight, more backtracking and delays.)

In my experience, you will feel like you have been in transit for 3 days. . . having lived in Asia for many years, I learned that it was worth almost anything to avoid changes and long layovers. Direct flights are gold, flights with a brief layover and with luggage checked all the way through all silver. Save Amsterdam and Europe for your first anniversary. . .

patg

I think laying over in Amsterdam will be a big bonus. Do a lot of walking (reduces the dangers of deep vein thrombosis) and enjoy the nice contrast of cool weather and art museums versus your back-to-nature time in Africa. I stayed both at a central Amsterdam Hotel and at the airport Sheraton last year and I must say, that while the airport hotel was convenient, it was the most soulless place I've ever stayed. I felt like an item in an Automat.

It may be a bit more trouble to go downtown with your luggage, but it is worth it to experience the culture and to have your bed waiting nearby at whatever time you need to sleep. The American is in a great location. I would take a cab or the airport shuttle rather than the train and tram ride with all your stuff. Make sure all your things for Amsterdam are in your carry on bag, and you won't have to disturb the rest. Have a great visit.

Sjoerd

Airline: The Dulles to Amsterdam leg will be on Northwest. I have never flown them, so can't comment. Amsterdam to Johannesburg and Cape Town to Amsterdam will be KLM. I fly KLM World Business Class about 8 times / year (last time three weeks ago Amsterdam to/from New York JFK) and they are quite good. Decent food and wine, good chairs. (I can always sleep in them and I am 6ft4)
You will have your personal video screen with a choice of movies.
You can use the lounges at all airports when you fly business class, quality varies. Amsterdam Schiphol's KLM lounges are nice with a good selection of free drinks and snacks, and newspapers and magazines. I have also been to the Cape Town lounge which was OK, at Dulles I only know the United lounge which was awful compared to any KLM lounge I know.

I think that Amsterdam would be a nice stop between Washington and South Africa. Dulles to AMS is about 7 hours and AMS to Jo'burg is about 11 hours. The city of Amsterdam is close to the airport, Schiphol is an efficient airport so you will have no hassles with immigration, customs and transport, and you will have a full day in Amsterdam for "free". There is a direct train every 12 minutes or so from Schiphol airport to Amsterdam Central Station which costs only 4 euro and takes less than 20 minutes. Weather can be unpleasant (cool, windy and rainy) in November, but can also be pleasant. (cool and sunny). few tourists that time of the year, so you will have the Van Gogh museum for you "alone".
Whatever you decide to do, congratulations and have a great honeymoon.

Sjoerd

Forgot to say: you can probably through-check your bags to Jo'burg (even if your flight is the next day) and go to Amsterdam only with a carry-on bag. Alternatively, there are lockers at Schiphol to store your large bags for a day.

suze

If you do make the Amsterdam stop, I suggest the KLM / Connexxion bus service from the airport instead of the train. If picks up directly in front of the exit terminal and does a loop of major hotels for 10euro per person or 18 round trip.

cal776

I agree with everyone else who recommends sticking with the 24 hour layover in Amsterdam. It is an excellent way to break up a long journey between the USA and South Africa.

As mentioned earlier, www.seatguru.com will have all the insight you need to picking the best WBC seats.

I disagree with Suze on taking the bus from Schiphol. The train is faster and easier, IMHO. Just head to the basement of the airport after clearing immigration. Trains depart every 10-15 minutes for Centraal Station and take 20 minutes to get there. From Centraal Station, you can get to your hotel depending on its proximity by foot, tram, or taxi.

As for getting a good priced but decent hotel, please check out www.biddingfortravel.com. Four star hotels such as the Renaissance and Marriott routinely go for $78-$86/night.

Enjoy your honeymoon.

sandi

If you're waitlisted for the later next day flight, why do you have to pay $100?

As you're scheduled right now you'll be arriving in AMS in morning and whether you choose a hotel in city or at airport, be sure you can get an early checkin! If not, and if no room available, you'll have to drop your bags and get out on the street. Sure the daylight might reset your body clock, but it didn't ours and that first day (about 5:30pm) when we got into our room we were "basket cases" and up at 12M and not able to get back to sleep. Thankfully, we had 2-days scheduled for AMS before going onto Kenya, so the second day saved us.

If you want a hotel room for your arrival, you'll have to pay for the night before which is actually 2-days room rate.

Your bags can be thru-checked to JNB so you won't need more than an overnight bag for the two of you, and even though Schiphol is a very efficient airport, personally, I'd like to keep an eye on my bags even for one-full day! I'd claim them and then recheck them.

I'd stay at an airport hotel, get into my room, shower, change cloths and take bus or train into city (short ride); if you want you can even take a nap and then get out mid-day. You'll still be able to do the Anne Frank and Van Gogh (they're less crowded later in the day) and AMS is busy thru the night. You can have dinner in town, then bus/train back to hotel for a good well deserved night of sleep. And even though city hotels are a short ride to airport, if you stay at airport hotel, it's 15-30 minutes more time you have before checking in for your flight to JNB.

We were in AMS late-Nov and took a thermal tee for under sweater and for outer wear had a "transitional" weight fabric anorak (for Fall, not Winter) - basically the type of cloths we'd need for our return arrival to JFK early December - surprisingly the day we returned there was a heatwave in NY with temps in the 80s!!!!. But do take gloves and socks as it can get nippy; we even had freezing rain showers for a few hours.

As "cicerone" mentioned, I would double check that your flight from AMS to JNB is non-stop - if a stop, where? Sure hope you don't backtrack to LHR/LGW and have you checked whether you stop in CPT before final stop at JNB!

Whatever your decision once you arrive in South Africa this will all be behind you and you'll have a wonderful honeymoon - Africa is my favorite destination. Where will you be visiting in South Africa?

Sjoerd

All KLM flights Amsterdam - Jo'burg are non-stop.

nicki

Please keep the flight getting you into Amsterdam a day early. Others have mentioned the importance of breaking up the long trip and the added advantage of seeing some of Amsterdam. But the most important reason is to allow an extra day so you don't miss your connection to Johannesburg, in case your flight from Washington to Amsterdam is delayed or cancelled. A friend had to cancel a safari several years ago when the first leg of her flight was cancelled due to weather and she missed her Amsterdam to Kenya (don't remember the airport) flight, thus missing the charter flight to the national park where the safari was to begin. Even if she had been on the AMS to Kenya flight the next day she could not have met up with the group since there was no way for her to get out to the park other than the missed charter flight (fortunately she had bought travel cancellation/interruption insurance which reimbursed her for the entire cost of the trip). On a trip this important, and I am sure expensive, you don't want the same thing to happen to you -- building in that extra day is smart, even if you don't have to do it. (And you do have travel insurance, don't you? Many tour operators provide it, but check.)

lisa

Thanks so much for all the great input & advice! I'm printing this out for LOML & starting to look into some of the AMS hotels suggested here...we're probably leaning toward going ahead and doing the overnight in AMS. We pack light and will have carry-ons only (yes, even on our honeymoon), so schlepping luggage in AMS shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Sandi -- The reason we would have to pay a $100 change fee ($50 per person) is because our tickets have already been issued (we held our reservation as long as possible without ticketing but finally we had to ticket or lose them, so we went ahead and ticketed with the understanding that if we make any changes to our itinerary there will be a change fee). In answer to your other question, in SA we are staying 6 nights in Kruger National Park (3 at Olifants & 3 at Lower Sabie), 3 nights at Chitwa Chitwa in Sabi Sands, and 6 nights in Cape Town (current reservations are at Radisson Waterfront). Very excited, can't wait!

Any more thoughts would be appreciated. I love this forum.

sandi

Lisa - were you the person asking about Chitwa Chitwa on the Africa board?

If yes, okay you made your decision. I'm not familiar with the other stops in Kruger, but overall you're going to have a wonderful time in South Africa.

Thank for the explanation on the $100 fee - hey $50 each is no big deal. Guess the days are over when you could do anything you wanted with FF miles.

Whatever you decide for AMS (city or airport), as you know it's a charming city, easily walkable and the tram system is great; your husband will enjoy. And as "nicki" mentioned, should there be flight delays, at least you have 1-day leeway, just in case. We've used AMS as our connecting point to Nairobi and have been lucky with no delays - but the extra day is your "insurance".

Have a wonderful time.

lisa

Sandi -- Yes, I was the one on the Africa board asking about Chitwa Chitwa. Since then we've heard more good things, and the price is great relative to many of the pricier camps in the area.

Thanks for your insights!