Honest Question about dress codes!
May 28th, 2008 | 08:06 AM
#21
Joined: Jan 2003
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Tipping in the US is usually 20%, more for very good service, since the minimum wage for servers is 30% less than the national minimum. The government feels that tips will make up the balance. Tipping 10% or less is an indication that the service was poor.
May 28th, 2008 | 08:11 AM
#22
Joined: Sep 2007
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Well, as someone who lives in Florida, and someone who just returned from Europe, here is my take...
When I even bother to notice what I assume is a European tourist's clothing, I just think to myself, "Oh there's another European."
In Paris and Rome, not once did I feel like someone looked at me in my Levi's jeans, Old Navy t-shirt, and Gap sweater, and think anything more than, "Oh, there's another American." In fact, I don't think anyone even noticed me at all.
I truly never felt like it was an issue to me or to anyone who lived there. We didn't eat anywhere fancy. If we did, of course, I would have worn something better.
Having said that, jeans, t-shirt, and sweater is considered dressed up at home. So, I actually felt pretty fancy while I was there.
When I even bother to notice what I assume is a European tourist's clothing, I just think to myself, "Oh there's another European."
In Paris and Rome, not once did I feel like someone looked at me in my Levi's jeans, Old Navy t-shirt, and Gap sweater, and think anything more than, "Oh, there's another American." In fact, I don't think anyone even noticed me at all.
I truly never felt like it was an issue to me or to anyone who lived there. We didn't eat anywhere fancy. If we did, of course, I would have worn something better.
Having said that, jeans, t-shirt, and sweater is considered dressed up at home. So, I actually felt pretty fancy while I was there.
May 28th, 2008 | 08:16 AM
#24
Joined: Sep 2007
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I just remembered this story from our last night in Paris:
We were walking over to view the Eiffel Tower one last time, and a girl came up to me and starting speaking French. As I was trying to say (in French) that I don't speak French, she held out her camera and said "Photo?" Then, I realized she was American and took her photo. I asked her if she thought we were French, and she said that she did because we weren't carrying lots of stuff with us, so she assumed we were locals.
So, even though I was dressed very American, it was the lack of paraphenalia that made the difference.
We were walking over to view the Eiffel Tower one last time, and a girl came up to me and starting speaking French. As I was trying to say (in French) that I don't speak French, she held out her camera and said "Photo?" Then, I realized she was American and took her photo. I asked her if she thought we were French, and she said that she did because we weren't carrying lots of stuff with us, so she assumed we were locals.
So, even though I was dressed very American, it was the lack of paraphenalia that made the difference.
May 28th, 2008 | 08:32 AM
#26
Joined: May 2007
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The shop assistants at Munich airport's duty free shops often address me in English. Which I think is cute. And it does not keep me from wearing a baseball cap, jeans, and sneakers most of the time.
One question bugs me (a bit in the line of what shelly_m wrote):
When you, as an American tourist in Paris or Rome, look at all the other people (which are mostly also tourists from all corners of the world), do they all appear to you as being dressed in a "European way"? Or do you notice that you can see all types of clothing when lining up for the Vatican or Eiffel tower?
One question bugs me (a bit in the line of what shelly_m wrote):
When you, as an American tourist in Paris or Rome, look at all the other people (which are mostly also tourists from all corners of the world), do they all appear to you as being dressed in a "European way"? Or do you notice that you can see all types of clothing when lining up for the Vatican or Eiffel tower?
May 28th, 2008 | 08:33 AM
#28
Joined: Aug 2007
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<i>You've clearly not shopped in either lately.</i>
Actually, I stopped into both this past weekend, while in London. Both were busy. As were Uniqlo and Gap and H&M and most of the other chains. I saw a lot of Abercrombie bags going around as well, though I didn't go in. Passed a lot of shoe stores with stuff in the window largely indistinguishable from what I saw a month ago in the US.
Selfridges was packed with the same labels found at most mid-tier department stores elsewhere. Liberty was a bit more daring, but no more so than someone like Nieman Marcus, in the US. About the only store I found selling anything even remotely bold was Desigual. But nothing that would be too out of place in many US stores.
I assume that you will be able to offer some observations from your recent, extensive travels to the US?
Actually, I stopped into both this past weekend, while in London. Both were busy. As were Uniqlo and Gap and H&M and most of the other chains. I saw a lot of Abercrombie bags going around as well, though I didn't go in. Passed a lot of shoe stores with stuff in the window largely indistinguishable from what I saw a month ago in the US.
Selfridges was packed with the same labels found at most mid-tier department stores elsewhere. Liberty was a bit more daring, but no more so than someone like Nieman Marcus, in the US. About the only store I found selling anything even remotely bold was Desigual. But nothing that would be too out of place in many US stores.
I assume that you will be able to offer some observations from your recent, extensive travels to the US?
May 28th, 2008 | 08:42 AM
#29
Joined: Sep 2007
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Cowboy:
Actually, when I was in Paris, it was very warm (for what I think was the first warm weather in a long time). On that Sunday, most girls were out in mini-skirts and tank tops, which looked pretty much the same as what they wear here. I even took a photo of the Converse Chuck Taylors seen in every store just to show my daughter that the "cool kids" in Paris are wearing the same things the "cool kids" in Florida are wearing.
The one thing that really identified a Paris local to me was the scarf-skirt-leggings-boots outfits that they were wearing when it was cold. Of course, that may have just stood out to me because we don't wear clothes like that at all at home. Those people could have been New Yorkers, for all I knew. I did think they were cute outfits, though.
Actually, when I was in Paris, it was very warm (for what I think was the first warm weather in a long time). On that Sunday, most girls were out in mini-skirts and tank tops, which looked pretty much the same as what they wear here. I even took a photo of the Converse Chuck Taylors seen in every store just to show my daughter that the "cool kids" in Paris are wearing the same things the "cool kids" in Florida are wearing.
The one thing that really identified a Paris local to me was the scarf-skirt-leggings-boots outfits that they were wearing when it was cold. Of course, that may have just stood out to me because we don't wear clothes like that at all at home. Those people could have been New Yorkers, for all I knew. I did think they were cute outfits, though.
May 28th, 2008 | 02:59 PM
#30
Original Poster
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I suspect that Europeans are abroad so often that they realize there are no right answers to what is the dress code in any particular country. Once you've been to five or six different countries in Europe you realize that fashions, for the mainstream, are seldom much different.
They're also exposed to US media, culture and fashions to such an extent that, at least on a superficial level, they are familiar with what to expect when they travel there. Perhaps that goes some way to explaining the general lack of angst on the topic.
They're also exposed to US media, culture and fashions to such an extent that, at least on a superficial level, they are familiar with what to expect when they travel there. Perhaps that goes some way to explaining the general lack of angst on the topic.
May 28th, 2008 | 03:18 PM
#31
Joined: Apr 2005
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Well, looking back at old holiday photos I have to conclude that I have no shame and don't give a stuff what anyone thinks of my clothes on holiday!
Crete in August - a particularly awful massive straw hat. (boy it was hot and I burn burn burn so had to get the biggest one I could find).
funniest - camping in a tiny tent on a Suffolk farm in rotten weather for 3 weeks with few facilities and a toddler. We went into a tearoom in Bury St Edmunds and the lady who greeted us at the door very discretely and sympathetically asked if we were here for the charity clothing handouts from upstairs!
Crete in August - a particularly awful massive straw hat. (boy it was hot and I burn burn burn so had to get the biggest one I could find).
funniest - camping in a tiny tent on a Suffolk farm in rotten weather for 3 weeks with few facilities and a toddler. We went into a tearoom in Bury St Edmunds and the lady who greeted us at the door very discretely and sympathetically asked if we were here for the charity clothing handouts from upstairs!
May 29th, 2008 | 01:14 AM
#32
Joined: Jan 2005
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I suspect that Europeans are abroad so often that they realize there are no right answers to what is the dress code in any particular country. Once you've been to five or six different countries in Europe you realize that fashions, for the mainstream, are seldom much different
That's right enough.
I'm approaching my three score years and ten (groan) and go to Italy most years.
Quite honestly, I look just like the local old Italian wifies.
I haven't been in the US for decades, but I certainly wouldn't buy a new outfit in order to fit in.
The last time one of my American friends visited, she looked pretty well the same as any middle-class Englishwoman of her age.
The American bum-bag, shorts and baseball hat brigade and their European equivalents make themselves conspicuous, but they are only a minority.
The majority of people just dress appropriately for their age, size and the venue and you don't notice them.
That's right enough.
I'm approaching my three score years and ten (groan) and go to Italy most years.
Quite honestly, I look just like the local old Italian wifies.
I haven't been in the US for decades, but I certainly wouldn't buy a new outfit in order to fit in.
The last time one of my American friends visited, she looked pretty well the same as any middle-class Englishwoman of her age.
The American bum-bag, shorts and baseball hat brigade and their European equivalents make themselves conspicuous, but they are only a minority.
The majority of people just dress appropriately for their age, size and the venue and you don't notice them.
May 29th, 2008 | 03:16 AM
#34
Joined: Dec 2005
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Okay, here is the other side of the "Americans in Europe/Europeans in America" issue, though my example is about people from the UK, who aren't really Europeans.
We live in an upscale resort on an island off the coast of Massachusetts and have frequent visitors. One pair of wonderful UK friends dress so casually when they are here that we simply can't take them or let them take us to any of the better restaurants for dinner.
Their idea of holiday clothing from trips to Spain and Florida is shorts, T-shirts, and sandals, and that's all they bring. These are fine for lunch at many places but not for dinner most places. So we wind up eating at home.
To show that our town is not alone, when we visited friends in Charleston, SC, and went to a nice restaurant for dinner, SNOB or Magnolias,maybe, I asked my friend what to wear. His reply, "Charleston casual." I said, "Khakis and a blazer?" and he responded, "Yes." It is a uniform.
When we owned a condo in Naples, Florida, I would skip the blazer when going to dinner but would wear nice trousers and a neat shirt with a collar at any place that might have table cloths.
So the answer for Europeans as it is for Americans, is that you should dress for what you hope to do. If you are happy with casual meals in casual places, take casual clothing. If you want a broader range of choices, take a broader range of clothes.
We live in an upscale resort on an island off the coast of Massachusetts and have frequent visitors. One pair of wonderful UK friends dress so casually when they are here that we simply can't take them or let them take us to any of the better restaurants for dinner.
Their idea of holiday clothing from trips to Spain and Florida is shorts, T-shirts, and sandals, and that's all they bring. These are fine for lunch at many places but not for dinner most places. So we wind up eating at home.
To show that our town is not alone, when we visited friends in Charleston, SC, and went to a nice restaurant for dinner, SNOB or Magnolias,maybe, I asked my friend what to wear. His reply, "Charleston casual." I said, "Khakis and a blazer?" and he responded, "Yes." It is a uniform.
When we owned a condo in Naples, Florida, I would skip the blazer when going to dinner but would wear nice trousers and a neat shirt with a collar at any place that might have table cloths.
So the answer for Europeans as it is for Americans, is that you should dress for what you hope to do. If you are happy with casual meals in casual places, take casual clothing. If you want a broader range of choices, take a broader range of clothes.
May 29th, 2008 | 03:37 AM
#35
Joined: Jan 2003
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We returned last night from France, our first trip there since 2004. I was surprised how much "sloppier" many Europeans were dressed compared to past visits (especially compared to my first trip in 1977!), e.g., T-shirts, sneakers. I did notice that even on quite warm days, most French wore jackets and coats. No doubt, more Americans were seen in Paris wearing shorts and flip-flops - mostly the younger ones - but I think it's about time we can stop obsessing over this.
