socialworker

HI zwho--it sounds like maybe the issue is not so much logistics but rather--perhaps--a group dynamics issue. It seems that the 4 of you have formed a group bond and the idea of an extra member is "destabilizing" your group identity. If that is the case, just addressing the logistical concerns will not really resolve the core problem. If you are really no longer inclined to have her as a member on this particular trip, I think you have to find the kindest way possible to figure out a way to tell her. She had no difficulty telling you originally that she had other plans and now you all may be feeling a little put on the spot, so to speak.

Walter_Walltotti

Black Cabs will comfortably take 5 people without luggage. Many airport taxi companies have immediate access to large people carriers.

Most large hire companies have easy access to people carriers which can carry 5 with luggage, 7 without.

The roads around the Cotswalds aren't that narrow.

Most restaurants will easily be able to accommodate 5 people.

Other than at a personal "getting along" level I don't see a problem.

taggie

I don't understand people saying the roads in the Cotswolds aren't that narrow.
Sure, there are a lot of "major" roads that would have enough room for a larger vehicle.
But I've been on roads between some of the smaller villages where there is no room for 2 cars to pass going in opposite directions. You have to keep an eye open for the "pullout" areas that are interspersed along the roads. Then when you meet up with another car, someone has to back up until they get to a pullout so one car can get past the other.
If you avoid these tiny roads then you'd be OK I guess, but I don't think you'd get to see as much interesting stuff by sticking to the bigger roads.

tledford

I have a group of college friends who travel every year together. The number of people is never an issue, odd or even between 2 and 8. Triple rooms are easy to find, two cars can be rented- limo drivers
or van drivers can be hired and split 5 ways. What makes it work for us is that we go separate ways whenever we want, and are not nit picky about the money. I agree with P M- The key to success is splitting up frequently.
Of course you have every right to tell her it won't work if you are set on
your current plans.

Kayb95

We've traveled with 5 to the UK before and we found it less expensive to rent two smaller cars than one van.

Even if you rented one full-size car and could fit 5 people in, getting your luggage to your hotel, cottage, etc... will be a problem. Even in a large trunk (boot) you will only be able to fit probably two large suitcases and one or two small ones.

If you feel you want to ask her, I'd make it clear that you would have to rent another car and possibly hotel rooms so there would be additional costs.

lincasanova

is she aware of this website? if so...i imagine the phone will ring soon and the problem will be solved.

zwho

I love all the advice! Here are the answers to your questions. We never wanted more then 4 to go on the trip. We replaced the one woman with another and thats where it ended, we planned a great trip and then she said her and her hubbys trip was cancelled. She is close friends with only 1 of the girls going on (our) trip and thats where my post came in. I felt bad for my friend who felt bad about her close friend, now not going to London at all. I know it sounds treacly, but I intellectually knew that 4 of us was the right number, but just thought if someone had a wonderful remote point I hadn't thought of, she could join our trip without making waves. We are all good sports, but no one wants to be the middle person in the backseat driving thru the Cotwolds. Only one of us feel confident enough to drive a left handed stick shift on the left side of the road, and we don't want to spend more money, because for most of us, this trip is a gift from hardworking DH's and getting an automatic is alot more, isn't it? Two of us have been to London and are planning the trip. She also posts here ([email protected]). The other two just want to see all the "sights". We may split up some, but probably not much. As social worker noted, our group dynamic is pretty great with this group! Adding the other girl would change that, and not because shes not nice; shes a doll! It would just complicate our well laid plans, and that could cause bad feelings, especially if the girls in our group who aren't close friends of this other girl start feeling put out. So, yeah we are complicated and trite and in the scheme of all things important, this doesn't even matter. But since we ARE going and plan on having a GREAT time, I thank each one of you for your thoughtful comments, and sage advice.

P_M

It sounds like you've given this a lot of thought and you've made a very wise decision. Have a great trip!!

gracieb

DON'T DO IT!!! (Re-invite her) It WILL completely change the dynamics and multiple times a day.

If you do have to upgrade to a larger car, you'll probably want an automatic anyway. It's harder to drive a straight shift when it's a heavier car. And the driver is going to be challenged already with driving on the "wrong side" of the road.

The others need to help her out by chanting, "Think left, think left, think left" every time you pull out onto the road. Believe me, the tendency will be to pull into the right lane and EVERYONE has a close call sometime during the trip.

Have a blast!

taggie

zwho I totally understand. Groups are tough to deal with sometimes.
When you're driving around in the Cotswolds, pick up a copy of a little book by Joanna Trollope called "The Romantic Road" (I know it sounds sucky but it's not). You can get it in the Tourist Information offices and likely bookstores in the area. She has a couple of great routes to follow that'll take you to some really interesting spots. Snowshill is the village that they used for Bridget Jones' parents place and it is sooooo cute. Snowshill Manor is fascinating - a private collection of all kinds of STUFF. Also tea at Buckleigh Manor, close to Broadway, is very nice. It gives a person a TOTALLY different experience than just going to the main touristy spots. I can't recommend it enough.
If you haven't decided on aplace to stay I can suggest The Olive Branch in Broadway. Great hosts and a very nice guesthouse.

FromAtlanta

Good decision not to re-invite her.

Like I said before, she is a grown woman and she has no right to have hurt feelings since she was the one who cancelled in the first place.

Have a great time and make sure you tell us all about it when you get back

P_M, I am glad you found my "travel group" amusing

suze

You've answered your own question. Traveling is tough, regarding personal dynamics. The "5" thing will haunt you (& her), judging by your posts. I'd proceed with your foursome.

zwho

Taggie if you look at this thread again, i want to thank you for reccommending "The Romantic Road". Yeah, it sounds sucky, but that is exactly the kind of info we are missing. The travel books don't really give you good ideas of how to see the Cotwolds. Believe me, that was going to be a future question for this forum. I have heard of the Olive Branch. We're going mid October. Should we book before we get there? If you (or anyone other (in the know) Fodorite don't see this and answer, I'll post it separately. I'm going to email this to my fellow travellers. Mucho gracias again!

taggie

Hi zwho - If it were me I'd book in advance, even in October. I like to book things in advance where possible. The Olive Branch is pretty popular and it's reasonable for Broadway so if I were you I would book it.
http://www.theolivebranch-broadway.com/
They are great hosts - Pam is the person who told us about The Romantic Road - she lent us her copy the first day and then we bought our own.
The only thing is I don't know about the sleeping arrangements. We had the lower level garden room with its own entrance. It was great for us but it would involve 2 sharing a bed. I see they have a family room for up to 4 so that might work for you.
Anyway, if you do stay there, tell Pam you heard about her place from 2 Canadians from Vancouver who work in television. She just might remember us! (I don't post under my real name)
And give Zulu the dog a pet for me.

taggie

And just a bit more info re: Romantic Road. She doesn't go into all kinds of "where to kiss" stuff so I'm not really sure where the title came from. Basically it's a driving guide for 2 separate routes. She tells you which roads to take, where to turn, what to look out for, a bit of history about various things along the way (and we only got lost once). We'd been to the Cotswolds a couple of times before but we saw and learned way, way more using the book.
Just be aware of the narrow roads, though.... I wrote about it earlier on this thread. As long as you know the protocol....

Also, rent the movie "The Crush" (a real chick flick) with Andie MacDowell, for some good scenery of the Cotswolds.
I'm so jealous! I'll be in London in August but with my little sister, not with my husband, and he made me promise not to rent a car on my own so I can't go to the Cotswolds this trip.
Have a fab time!

zwho

Taggie, Thank you again for all the info. So you are from Vancouver? That is one of my favorite places to visit, if we can't go overseas! I love Granville Island, my husband and me cannot get over the food market there. Infact one of the girls going to London with us ([email protected])another Fodors poster, just returned from Vancouver. They ate at a chinese resturant that she said was spectacular, Shanghai bistro (I think). We will check out The Olive Branch, but Broadway may be too out of the way for us. Maybe not. Here is our (in the rough) plan; Wednesday morning take the train from London to Bath, spend the day and probably night, because we won't want to be on small, dark? country roads after dark, then pick up our rental car the next morning and drive thru the Cotswolds. Spend that day exploring a few towns, drop the car off in the one with a train station and back to London after dinner. Now, I don't know if we can do this, if its even smart to try to do this, but its the only way we can see the Cotswolds and Bath. Or maybe skip Bath and take the train to Stratford upon Avon instead and go to the Cotswolds from there. Same time span. See how much help I need? And the answers are not in the guide books, not really! They have to come from people like you who have been there, done that. So once again, I hope you see this and can answer. If not, I will post a new message. Thanks again.

cigalechanta

I think, if all four of you really love this woman, than two small cars are the way to go, so you can fit the luggage, and you'll pay for an extra cot perhaps in one room. As others said, dining is no problem, in fact will be fun.

taggie

Hi zwho - I'd skip Stratford and go to Bath. More to see and I just like it better.
since you'll need ot get to Moreton-in-Marsh where the train station is, you'll want to stick to the north Cotswolds. You can plan your own route, but place I'd recommend in that region are the Slughters

natjgc

Hi,

It's natjgc and I think the 5th girl who is my close friend will be fine- I think she will think twice before she says no to a fabulous girls trip in the future. The info about the Olive Branch in the Cotswolds sounds great. We will talk about it at the next trip meeting.
zwho- thanks for all of your terrific input!!!

taggie

Hi zwho - Yeah Vancouver is a pretty nice place in its own right. But it's not Europe!!
I'd skip Stratford and go to Bath. More to see and I just like it better.
Since you'll need to get to Moreton-in-Marsh (it's the least scenic) where the train station is, you'll want to stick to the central-north Cotswolds. You can plan your own route, but places I'd recommend in that region are Upper and Lower Slaughter (get out and walk between the 2), Burford and Bibury (famous for Arlington Row - a row of weavers' cottages), Broadway and Chipping Camden if you can get there, perhaps Stow-on-the-Wold (bigger and busier). Bourton-on-the-Water is a popular tourist stop but it sure isn't my favourite - overcrowded and too cutesy for my tastes, but it's close to the Slaughters and you might find it worth a look.... has lots of little bridges over the river that winds through town. I like Cheltenham but you won't have time and it's a small city that can be quite busy and confusing to drive in so you should skip it.
You can see quite a bit in one day. Stow and Chipping Campden are only about 5 miles or so from Moreton-in-Marsh. We're not talking huge distances here.
Rick Steves actually has a pretty decent 1-day 100-mile Cotswolds blitz in his Great Britain guide, so it'd be worth getting your hands on a copy, even one that's a few years old.
OK - that's enough from me... have fun!