Honest, is 5 a crowd for London?
 

As regular readers of Fodors travel talk must know by now I am going to London with 3 friends in October. One of the women we originally planned the trip with backed out, (she thought she would be going with her DH about the same time). That fell through and now she regrets she told us no. While we feel bad for her, we don't know if asking her to come along now is a good idea. We know we can do a triple room and a double, but how about tables in resturants? How hard is it to come by tables for 5? Also, I have read when driving in the Cotswolds, the smaller the car the better because of the narrow roads. How uncomfortable will 3 in a backseat be? Can we do it? My honest feeling is, I want everyone to be happy, I don't want any hurt feelings, but we have really planned carefully for this trip and I don't want it ruined because of trying to accomadate everyone when it won't work. Help us.....we need some positive reasons to include her. We probably also need some more (good) reasons to keep our group at the original number of 4. Thanks as always, in advance.

depending on the size of passengers and luggage you will be carrying, 5 can be a bit tight by any means for extended periods of driving.

i have friends who couldnt even fit 4 in their small rental with the bags and had to hire taxis continuously to get around with extra baggage, person.

i hope you can resolve your dilemma with no hard feelings.

i wouldnt worry about restaurant reservations, etc.
that should be no problem. but the means of transportation and trunk space could prove a challenge.

Honestly, I think 5 will make the trip a lot harder, both because of the logistical reasons and because of one more personality in the mix. I met someone on my recent trip who was traveling as part of a family of 5 and she mentioned the same issues you did of the tables, rooms, etc.

Agree restaruant are no problem - everyone has tables for 6 they can use for 5.

A car is another problem. We've had a lot of trouble finding a car big enough for 4 and luggage ((the 4 part is easy its the luggage that's a problem). I don;t understand it but even full size cars in europe have trunks that don;t seem to hold as much as my sub-compact hatchback.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds like you already know you would rather not invite her and you are only considering it from a sense of guilt. Do you and your friends want her to come along or not? How do the others feel about it? I think you should meet with your friends, tell them what you have told us, then decide together what to do.

As far as restaraunts go, I don't see a problem with a table for 5, and if you have to get a larger car, you will have another person to share that extra cost, although I agree with the others that luggage will be a problem.

If there's a reason you think her presence will spoil the trip, then you have no obligation to invite her once the plans are made. It's your call.

Traveling with five adults can be done. It is just less convenient. Hotels easily do doubles/triples. Restaurants are not a problem. Transportation is another issue as I find even four with a car or station wagon tight. You would have to rent a van. if you take taxis you will need two unless it is a van. You might wish to stick to your original plans and include your friend on your next trip.

if you are willing to look into solutions, anything can be resolved, but the willingness must be there.
this is obviously a good friend, since she was included in the original four.

as mentioned, you could get larger vehicle at not much more extra expense perhaps since 5 are sharing. this vehicle would also be safer than a smaller model.

maybe the question here is about the friendship, not the hassle.
many families of five, or four with a grandma travel all the time.
so, although the original plans may need some altering, a cherished friendship would be worth it.

but if everyone doesnt downsize the luggage question, four won't even fit comfortably with bags and souvenirs.

Ok, it is driving me crazy!! What is a "DH" If I knew what that was, then maybe I would/could understand why she backed out of your plans in the first place.

Really, she shouldn't have hard feeling if SHE was the one who originally backed out. I know she must be disappointed, but being a grown woman I am sure she will understand that it is not your fault her plans fell through.

That said, one more person couldn't make that much difference. (Personally, I couldn't travel with 4 let alone 5...but that is me. :)) 3 is all I can handle: Me, Myself and I. Ha!Ha!) The only problem would be the car. If you couldn't get a bigger one, it would not be fair to the original 2 to squeeze a 3rd in the back!! Other than that, everything is doable.

But I agree with P_M, you seem to want to keep this a 4-some. I don't see anything wrong with that. I know once I make plans, I don't like them to change that much either.

DH = dear husband (or sometimes another adjectival word is substituted).

Thanks to all of you for your very thoughtful answers. I think the (new) 4 of us need to talk about it (honestly) before we say anything to our friend. The best thing about this travel forum is the quality of the people who read these and answer. Not only do you always come thru on the BEST travel advice, but in situations (like mine) you guys can give Dear Abby a run for her money. Thanks again.

I would put up with lots of inconvenience to have the pleasure of a friend's company. This is really about how much all of you want the fifth person to share your trip.

4 of you plus your luggage is going to be awfully tight in one car, and I wouldn't want to drive a van around UK country roads. What about including her and getting 2 cars? The extra expense might be a good trade off for extra flexibility -- you don't all have to do the same thing every day.

I don't think hotels or restaurants will be a problem.

You could hire a people carrier which would be ample room for five of you plus luggage. A small car is easier, but tourist buses manage to get down those lanes.
The two car idea is good. With five adults, you might want flexibility.

If you are determined AND willing to spend the money you can easily find a car big enough for five...the REAL question is: are you willing to spend the money?????

I would like to offer a word of advice when travelling in a group or either 4 or 5 people. You all don't have to stay together all of the time. For example, if 2 people want to see the British Museum and 3 want to do the London Eye, and there's only time for one of these activities, then it's OK for the group to split up and meet again later. Sometimes when groups of friends travel together, they think they have to stay together and please everyone all the time. That's really impossible because someone will miss doing what they want in order to please others. I probably should have mentioned this in my earlier post, but I travelled to Europe once in a group of 5. It was tough because we just couldn't do everything that all 5 of us wanted to do. It put a strain on some friendships within the group, and I wouldn't do it again.

I like From Atlanta's idea of travelling with a group of 3: me, myself, and I. That way there's no arguing, and everyone is happy. :-)

The roads in the Cotswolds aren't that narrow. I've been on roads in Devon which are teeny tiny and only wide enough for one car.You will be fine with a standard car in the Cotswolds.

>One of the women we originally planned the trip with backed out,...now she regrets she told us no. While we feel bad for her, we don't know if asking her to come along now is a good idea.<

If it was OK then, why is not OK now?

I would reconsider the size of car, whether there are 4 or 5 of you. A compact car in the uk - is just that - compact. Even with four people, you will struggle with luggage unless you are bringing only carry-on bags.

A larger car will really not be a problem on the roads in the Cotswolds.

Restaurants for 5 is not a problem.

If it was originally going to be 5, then going back to 5 doesn't seem like a big deal to me, unless someone is going to be out some money on hotel deposits or other arrangements. Can she still get on the same flight as the rest of you? How were you going to manage 5 originally with the car?

5 can be an awkward number, 6 almost makes it easier as you can divide up into 3 rooms. A triple, with 3 people using a possibly small bathroom, would be trying, for me.

On the other hand, perhaps we're misreading you and when this lady backed out you added in someone else instead to take her place. That's different to me, what's easy or just right for four doesn't necessarily work easily for 5. She mght just have to bite the bullet and realize she missed this opportunity, it was no one's fault, maybe next time will work. Or she can go someplace on her own! It's no reflection on your regard for her to not want to make the trip awkward or inconvenient for every one else. I will add, if you all haven't traveled together before, traveling with a person is entirely different from just a regular close friendship, it's intense togethernesss 24-7 and doesn't always work well even among close friends or even spouses or families.
The more people you add, the more you are increasing the odds that at least one person is going to rub at least one other person the wrong way.

She's an adult, she bowed out, her circumstances changed, she still made a choice and she'll be going with DH someday.

DON'T act of some misplaced sympathy and guilt and adversely impact the upcoming trip.

5 adults in a car will be a lot, no matter how much larger vehicle you rent. There will always be three in the back seat - not the best set-up for enjoying the drive through the countryside.

I am uncomfortable traveling in odd numbers (adults, not kids or family members). My personal experience has been that it's easier to alternate and accomodate everyone's choices with 2 or 4 persons. Much more difficult with 3 or 5. I'm not sure that makes a lot of sense and I have my theories as to why...but I have found that for me it's true.

I cancelled on a long-planned vacation by four of us when 1 invited another without consulting the rest of the group. There were other issues at hand, but that final act of inconsideration made me realize that I did not need to spend two weeks in this group.

If I have followed your post correctly, you planned with 3, 1 dropped out and then you invited another person to take the 4th slot? If so, how will the new #4 feel when the previous #4 is readded to the group to make 5. I think on many accounts you are setting yourselves up for a challenging travel situation.

I would not do it.

I'm with P_M on two counts: do you really want this person along? and you don't have to be joined at the hip with the entire group for every activity, every day!

For rooms with 5 people, I'd suggest 2 doubles and let the new 5th person rent a single for herself (I prefer than for myself under any conditions).

No expert advice about the car because I don't know the area-g etting a bigger one? not everyone goes on that part of the trip? a car service? public transporation?