Help with Switzerland and France itinerary?
Oct 29th, 2008 | 06:06 PM
#1
Original Poster
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Help with Switzerland and France itinerary?
We will be traveling with my parents in May, arriving in and departing from Zurich, we will be driving. We'll be there just short of 2 weeks (arrive Sun/leave Sat). Plan to spend at least 3 or 4 nights in Alsace region. Where to spend the remaining time? I'm reading my Fodors, but would like a little (ok a lot) direction.
My elderly father is well-traveled, but now disabled and can only walk short distances with a walker. This does not stop him from enjoying his travels, but requires a bit more planning.
So, with that in mind, can you help me round out the trip? I know some of the great villages in Switzerland will be off limits to us.
Day 1 and 2-Luzern (pedestrian only?)
Day 3, 4, 5, 6, Alsace
Day 7, 8, 9 Fribourg area?
Day 10, 11, 12, BO area?
Day 13 Zurich
This is just a first stab, please let me know what you think would be a doable plan.
Thanks! annie
My elderly father is well-traveled, but now disabled and can only walk short distances with a walker. This does not stop him from enjoying his travels, but requires a bit more planning.
So, with that in mind, can you help me round out the trip? I know some of the great villages in Switzerland will be off limits to us.
Day 1 and 2-Luzern (pedestrian only?)
Day 3, 4, 5, 6, Alsace
Day 7, 8, 9 Fribourg area?
Day 10, 11, 12, BO area?
Day 13 Zurich
This is just a first stab, please let me know what you think would be a doable plan.
Thanks! annie
Oct 29th, 2008 | 09:10 PM
#2
Joined: Feb 2003
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Brava to your Dad for continuing to travel…my first thoughts are that if walking is an issue for him, you should concentrate your Swiss trip on using scenic trains and ferries, where he can sit and take in the fabulous scenery. You can do some of these same routes by car, but many of the better mountain routes can only to be seen by train, and of course ferries speak for themselves. Also, in May, the higher mountain passes which are scenic and quite fun to drive will still be closed, so a car will not be a whole lot of use to you for that. If the weather has been warm, you may find that they are open, it will all depend on how warm the spring has been, so I would not plan around being able to drive the passes. (If you can postpone your trip to June, those passes would be open, and in general IMO you would find better weather in the mountains. May is usually very iffy weather in Switzerland, esp for the mountain areas. Take a look at weatherbase.com for temps and rainfall. Many areas are going to be cool to cold and worse, rainy and foggy or even snowing. If you have to go in May, late May is better than early May.)
My personal view on your itin is that driving first to Lucerne, and then France and then <i>back</i> to the Lucerne area (where the BO is), is more driving than you want or need. You can easily get to France from Zurich first, and then go to the BO area. I would normally recommend that you drop the car after France and save on gas and parking, and rely only on the superb public transport in Switzerland, but can see in your case where a car may be convenient. For example, it faster and easier to get to the Jungfrau valley in the BO from Lucerne by car than by train, although you will have to pay for parking in both places.
An excellent scenic rail ride would be the Bernina Express, this is an all-day excursion from Zurich, or if you base yourself in the Engadine region, can be done as a half-day trip. See rhb.ch for details. From Zurich, this requires one train change in Chur, but otherwise no walking would be involved. You would have a lunch-layover in Turino, where you can walk or not walk, there are restaurants near the train station if you don’t want to venture too far. (This trip is not doable from the BO as a day trip, it might be possible to do it from Lucerne.)
In the BO area, the Golden Pass is another very good ride, this will take you all the way to Lake Geneva, with some lovely countryside and mountain views along the way. See http://www.goldenpass.ch/GPL/main.asp. For both the Bernina and the Golden Pass, I would be a little bit worried about fog in May, but perhaps others can comment. (I lived in Zurich for 4 years, so am pretty familiar with the weather, but never took a scenic train in May.)
I have not done the William Tell Express, but this might be interesting; I have gone on the same train route and it is quite lovely and interesting. As a day trip, you might want to skip the ferry ride and start with the train from Fluelen; otherwise this may be a nice way to get down to the Tocino for a night or so. The Ticino region <i>might</i> be a better choice weather-wise in May than the Alp areas, as they have a micro-climate which is warmer. I have been there in rain and cool weather in May though, so it is hard to say. Mid-May would be better for sure for that area than early May.
For ferries, while I am not a huge fan of Lucerne generally, the ferry rides around the lake are lovely and can be a good way to see things. Otherwise, Lucerne does require a fair bit of walking, however if you concentrate on the area just around the wooden bridge, it is probably doable. The other old town areas and fort area may be too much for a non-walker.
In the BO, other than the great train and cable car systems to get up into the mountains, there are very beautiful ferry rides on Lake Bregenz and Lake Thun. They run on a more limited schedule in May (again, June is better for full summer schedules).
If you have a car, Gstaad is quite a nice drive for a day trip from the Jungfrau valley area (which I assume you mean by the “BO”), and they have a small but very charming old town area that IMO your father could handle, as it is flat, compact, and close to parking. (Towns in the BO are not really as charming, IMO, Gstaad is the best of the lot, although Thun is pretty nice too.) The ride into the Gstaad valley is very lovely as well, look for covered wooden bridges, some of the few remaining ones in Switzerland. You can also train to Gstaad from Lauterbrunnen, it is just a longer trip than via car, although quite scenic too. The train station in Gstaad is near the old town area so again IMO your Dad could see do that. (The Golden Pass train also goes through Gstaad.)
On the way to the BO, or as a day trip from Zurich, you can go to Zug, on its own lake and with a very charming, compact old town; again probably doable for your Dad as it is small and near parking. Their old town has painted buildings, almost like scraffito, quite rare in Switzerland. (Zug can also can be easily done by train from Zurich.) Take a look at http://cms.zug-tourismus.ch. If you like the work of Klimit, Schiele, and other 20th century artists, the Kunsthaus would be a great place to visit. Go to http://www.kunsthauszug.ch. (The museum of course requires walking.) A very good restaurant in the old town is the Gausthaus Rathauskeller, see http://www.rathauskeller.ch/.
In Zurich, take a ferry ride down the lake and back, and then concentrate on tram rides within Zurich, which can give you some good city-sites (i.e. the Bahnhofstrasse which is the main shopping street, and something like the ride up to the zoo on the #6 tram which will give you some good high elevation views as well.) Also, your father could do the little red train up the Utlieberg hill to get a very good view from the top. The even better view requires a walk uphill a bit, but the view from the train station area is quite nice too, and the ride is fun.
From Zurich with a car I think that the Appenzell area would be a great choice (this is Heidiland), and the little village of Appenzell itself is charming and more accessible to a non-walker. Like Gstaad it is flat and compact and close to parking. The countryside itself is rolling green hills with the Alps as a backdrop and in May, these low lands would be in better weather (rain not-withstanding).
The stunning Walensee would be about 40 minutes by car. This is a green glacial lake in quite a spectacular setting. You can park Weesen, and then a ferry down the lake to Murg or Unterterzen and a train back from there to Weesen. There is a nice place on the lake in Weesen to have lunch and take in the views, see http://www.parkhotelschwert.ch. You could also drive up the mountain to Flumserberg and get some great views from the ski area there, or even ride the cable car up to the top (and back) for more views. Or drive up the other side of the lake beyond Weesen to Amden and get some good views too. There is a nice little restaurant with a sun terrace serving fondue and other specialties at Café Leistkamm.
The “black Madonna” in the beautiful baroque church at Einsiedeln is about 45 minutes to an hour by car. You can park in front of the church, so no walking. You can walk around the grounds a bit if you want (Dad does not have too), the monks sell a decent wine and some other home-made goods as well. (Shop is open on Sunday, God bless, one of the few places in Switzerland that are.) Not sure if you have an interest in this, but this town is one of the stops on the Way of St James to Spain. (This could be combined with a trip to Lake Walensee.)
I think that the old town of St Gallen is lovely, again compact, and they have a magnificent cathedral and abbey library. A bit of walking to see the old town, but as you can park close to it (like many old town areas, it is car free), it may work.
All of the above trips are also quite doable by train, just would require more time, some may require changing trains, etc. But see rail.ch for schedules.
The Stein am Rhein area may also work, as there are boats which go down the river for half a day or so. I don’t know that your father could handle the walk required for the Rheinfalls, perhaps out to the first viewing point, but other points of view require walking up and down stairs, sometimes wet stairs. I might give that a miss, but you do pass by the Stein am Rhein area when coming from the Alsace, so a trip on the river may work for you.
My personal view on your itin is that driving first to Lucerne, and then France and then <i>back</i> to the Lucerne area (where the BO is), is more driving than you want or need. You can easily get to France from Zurich first, and then go to the BO area. I would normally recommend that you drop the car after France and save on gas and parking, and rely only on the superb public transport in Switzerland, but can see in your case where a car may be convenient. For example, it faster and easier to get to the Jungfrau valley in the BO from Lucerne by car than by train, although you will have to pay for parking in both places.
An excellent scenic rail ride would be the Bernina Express, this is an all-day excursion from Zurich, or if you base yourself in the Engadine region, can be done as a half-day trip. See rhb.ch for details. From Zurich, this requires one train change in Chur, but otherwise no walking would be involved. You would have a lunch-layover in Turino, where you can walk or not walk, there are restaurants near the train station if you don’t want to venture too far. (This trip is not doable from the BO as a day trip, it might be possible to do it from Lucerne.)
In the BO area, the Golden Pass is another very good ride, this will take you all the way to Lake Geneva, with some lovely countryside and mountain views along the way. See http://www.goldenpass.ch/GPL/main.asp. For both the Bernina and the Golden Pass, I would be a little bit worried about fog in May, but perhaps others can comment. (I lived in Zurich for 4 years, so am pretty familiar with the weather, but never took a scenic train in May.)
I have not done the William Tell Express, but this might be interesting; I have gone on the same train route and it is quite lovely and interesting. As a day trip, you might want to skip the ferry ride and start with the train from Fluelen; otherwise this may be a nice way to get down to the Tocino for a night or so. The Ticino region <i>might</i> be a better choice weather-wise in May than the Alp areas, as they have a micro-climate which is warmer. I have been there in rain and cool weather in May though, so it is hard to say. Mid-May would be better for sure for that area than early May.
For ferries, while I am not a huge fan of Lucerne generally, the ferry rides around the lake are lovely and can be a good way to see things. Otherwise, Lucerne does require a fair bit of walking, however if you concentrate on the area just around the wooden bridge, it is probably doable. The other old town areas and fort area may be too much for a non-walker.
In the BO, other than the great train and cable car systems to get up into the mountains, there are very beautiful ferry rides on Lake Bregenz and Lake Thun. They run on a more limited schedule in May (again, June is better for full summer schedules).
If you have a car, Gstaad is quite a nice drive for a day trip from the Jungfrau valley area (which I assume you mean by the “BO”), and they have a small but very charming old town area that IMO your father could handle, as it is flat, compact, and close to parking. (Towns in the BO are not really as charming, IMO, Gstaad is the best of the lot, although Thun is pretty nice too.) The ride into the Gstaad valley is very lovely as well, look for covered wooden bridges, some of the few remaining ones in Switzerland. You can also train to Gstaad from Lauterbrunnen, it is just a longer trip than via car, although quite scenic too. The train station in Gstaad is near the old town area so again IMO your Dad could see do that. (The Golden Pass train also goes through Gstaad.)
On the way to the BO, or as a day trip from Zurich, you can go to Zug, on its own lake and with a very charming, compact old town; again probably doable for your Dad as it is small and near parking. Their old town has painted buildings, almost like scraffito, quite rare in Switzerland. (Zug can also can be easily done by train from Zurich.) Take a look at http://cms.zug-tourismus.ch. If you like the work of Klimit, Schiele, and other 20th century artists, the Kunsthaus would be a great place to visit. Go to http://www.kunsthauszug.ch. (The museum of course requires walking.) A very good restaurant in the old town is the Gausthaus Rathauskeller, see http://www.rathauskeller.ch/.
In Zurich, take a ferry ride down the lake and back, and then concentrate on tram rides within Zurich, which can give you some good city-sites (i.e. the Bahnhofstrasse which is the main shopping street, and something like the ride up to the zoo on the #6 tram which will give you some good high elevation views as well.) Also, your father could do the little red train up the Utlieberg hill to get a very good view from the top. The even better view requires a walk uphill a bit, but the view from the train station area is quite nice too, and the ride is fun.
From Zurich with a car I think that the Appenzell area would be a great choice (this is Heidiland), and the little village of Appenzell itself is charming and more accessible to a non-walker. Like Gstaad it is flat and compact and close to parking. The countryside itself is rolling green hills with the Alps as a backdrop and in May, these low lands would be in better weather (rain not-withstanding).
The stunning Walensee would be about 40 minutes by car. This is a green glacial lake in quite a spectacular setting. You can park Weesen, and then a ferry down the lake to Murg or Unterterzen and a train back from there to Weesen. There is a nice place on the lake in Weesen to have lunch and take in the views, see http://www.parkhotelschwert.ch. You could also drive up the mountain to Flumserberg and get some great views from the ski area there, or even ride the cable car up to the top (and back) for more views. Or drive up the other side of the lake beyond Weesen to Amden and get some good views too. There is a nice little restaurant with a sun terrace serving fondue and other specialties at Café Leistkamm.
The “black Madonna” in the beautiful baroque church at Einsiedeln is about 45 minutes to an hour by car. You can park in front of the church, so no walking. You can walk around the grounds a bit if you want (Dad does not have too), the monks sell a decent wine and some other home-made goods as well. (Shop is open on Sunday, God bless, one of the few places in Switzerland that are.) Not sure if you have an interest in this, but this town is one of the stops on the Way of St James to Spain. (This could be combined with a trip to Lake Walensee.)
I think that the old town of St Gallen is lovely, again compact, and they have a magnificent cathedral and abbey library. A bit of walking to see the old town, but as you can park close to it (like many old town areas, it is car free), it may work.
All of the above trips are also quite doable by train, just would require more time, some may require changing trains, etc. But see rail.ch for schedules.
The Stein am Rhein area may also work, as there are boats which go down the river for half a day or so. I don’t know that your father could handle the walk required for the Rheinfalls, perhaps out to the first viewing point, but other points of view require walking up and down stairs, sometimes wet stairs. I might give that a miss, but you do pass by the Stein am Rhein area when coming from the Alsace, so a trip on the river may work for you.
Oct 29th, 2008 | 09:35 PM
#3
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,689
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It just occurred to me that you might want to look into seeing if you can get a handicapped sticker for yoru car in Switzerland or France. I know that in Switzerland, this would allow you to park in “blue zones” and other areas that would be closer to things like train stations and possibly to old town areas. In Switzerland, it also allows limited free parking, as well as parking in areas where there is no parking allowed, so theoretically you could get quite close to some old town areas and park. You can get them in France as well, although I don’t know the privileges extended for them. I am not sure how tourists go about getting one, but it may be worth checking on. For info on the blue badge in the EU, see http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice...dge-users.html. If you can get an EU one in France, you may be able to use it in Switzerland, or use it to obtain a Swiss parking permit.
The Rail systems also offers assistance to handicapped persons, see the rail. ch website. There is a website called Access-able, which gives information and links for handicapped travelers. Website it http://www.access-able.com. Also take a look at http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1502/...dresources.htm which is a site for disabled travelers as well, with many links and useful information.
I should mention that May and May 21 are public holidays in Switzerland. May 1 is Labour Day and is also a public holiday in France. May 21 is the Ascension. Trains will be running on holiday schedules, you probably will find most restaurants open, but there may be the odd closure. Tourist sights should be open, although some museums may be closed, so check schedules. Schools, banks and offices will be closed. If you like organized labour rallies, then be in Zurich on May 1. There may be similar events (or strikes) in France on May 1 as well.
The Rail systems also offers assistance to handicapped persons, see the rail. ch website. There is a website called Access-able, which gives information and links for handicapped travelers. Website it http://www.access-able.com. Also take a look at http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1502/...dresources.htm which is a site for disabled travelers as well, with many links and useful information.
I should mention that May and May 21 are public holidays in Switzerland. May 1 is Labour Day and is also a public holiday in France. May 21 is the Ascension. Trains will be running on holiday schedules, you probably will find most restaurants open, but there may be the odd closure. Tourist sights should be open, although some museums may be closed, so check schedules. Schools, banks and offices will be closed. If you like organized labour rallies, then be in Zurich on May 1. There may be similar events (or strikes) in France on May 1 as well.
Oct 29th, 2008 | 09:56 PM
#4
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572
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1) Luzern - ok by car, not far from Zürich, and not pedestrian-only. Take a boat trip on day two - will require a bit of logistics re. dropping off your dad with somebody to keep him company while you go park the car and get back to where the boats leave from (called Schifflände). but once he's settled on the boat he'll have the time of his life, the views are exquisite, and refreshments are available. Check www.lakelucerne.ch
2) On the way to the Alsace you'll go by the venerable historic city of Basel. A few inner-city streets are pedestrian-only, but overall it is driveable. Another boat ride, on the river Rhein from Basel to Schweizerhalle or even to Rheinfelden, could be very nice. See www.bpg.ch
3) Fribourg/Freiburg (French and German names for the same city, on the language border in Switzerland) is difficult for walkers - the old part of town that has a certain historic cachet is where you want to visit, but it is on a downslope and has lots of cobblestone streets. Your best bet is to drive through, get out maybe once or twice for a view, and stay outside the city.
Lots of countryside guesthouses and small hotels, but only some with easy access, you'll have to ask, but with your car you can be anywhere in a hurry, as long as you stay anywhere between Lausanne and Bern and Neuenburg-Neuchatel for example..
In that region you'll have to go visit:
Murten-Morat, a well-preserved town where the town-ramparts are still in place, and just down below is a parking and picnic area at the lake, very picturesque.
Bern - the historic core of the city has a similar lay-out as inner Fribourg, in the crook of a river loop, but Berne is much more accessible, you can even drive right to the cathedral (just not down the central main streets Spitalgasse-Marktgasse-Kramgasse) and drop passengers off for the short walk to the Münsterterrasse, the gardens with stunning views. When in Bern, plan on a meal at the Rosengarten (Rose Gardens) restaurant overlooking the old parts of town. It will require just a bit of a walk, but on level ground, take your time.
4) BO area (which is not anywhere near Lucerne): Interlaken is handy, on the flat, full of hotels and restaurants and with easy access to both lakes and the ships that cruise them (great for a leisurely afternoon of great views!).
Interlaken itself is not the most scenic of towns, but a great place to stay and branch out for daytrips. A few mountain towns are not car-friendly, but you'll find plenty of worthwhile targets for great views, for example you can drive up to the town of Beatenberg (via Thun), situated on a broad ledge above the lake Thun and below the mountain peak of the Niederhorn. It offers great views on all the famous peaks like Eiger, Mönch and Jungfrau etc.
5) Zürich - there are nice hotels in the town nearest to the airport, called Kloten - no need to stay in the Zürich big-city hustle and bustle where parking is a pain.
2) On the way to the Alsace you'll go by the venerable historic city of Basel. A few inner-city streets are pedestrian-only, but overall it is driveable. Another boat ride, on the river Rhein from Basel to Schweizerhalle or even to Rheinfelden, could be very nice. See www.bpg.ch
3) Fribourg/Freiburg (French and German names for the same city, on the language border in Switzerland) is difficult for walkers - the old part of town that has a certain historic cachet is where you want to visit, but it is on a downslope and has lots of cobblestone streets. Your best bet is to drive through, get out maybe once or twice for a view, and stay outside the city.
Lots of countryside guesthouses and small hotels, but only some with easy access, you'll have to ask, but with your car you can be anywhere in a hurry, as long as you stay anywhere between Lausanne and Bern and Neuenburg-Neuchatel for example..
In that region you'll have to go visit:
Murten-Morat, a well-preserved town where the town-ramparts are still in place, and just down below is a parking and picnic area at the lake, very picturesque.
Bern - the historic core of the city has a similar lay-out as inner Fribourg, in the crook of a river loop, but Berne is much more accessible, you can even drive right to the cathedral (just not down the central main streets Spitalgasse-Marktgasse-Kramgasse) and drop passengers off for the short walk to the Münsterterrasse, the gardens with stunning views. When in Bern, plan on a meal at the Rosengarten (Rose Gardens) restaurant overlooking the old parts of town. It will require just a bit of a walk, but on level ground, take your time.
4) BO area (which is not anywhere near Lucerne): Interlaken is handy, on the flat, full of hotels and restaurants and with easy access to both lakes and the ships that cruise them (great for a leisurely afternoon of great views!).
Interlaken itself is not the most scenic of towns, but a great place to stay and branch out for daytrips. A few mountain towns are not car-friendly, but you'll find plenty of worthwhile targets for great views, for example you can drive up to the town of Beatenberg (via Thun), situated on a broad ledge above the lake Thun and below the mountain peak of the Niederhorn. It offers great views on all the famous peaks like Eiger, Mönch and Jungfrau etc.
5) Zürich - there are nice hotels in the town nearest to the airport, called Kloten - no need to stay in the Zürich big-city hustle and bustle where parking is a pain.
Oct 29th, 2008 | 11:20 PM
#5
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,689
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I did not mean to imply that Lucerne is in the BO, there are in separate cantons of course; however it is next door, canton-wise. To drive from Zurich to Interlaken in the BO one has to drive <i>through<i/> the town of Lucerne. My point was that driving first to Lucerne, then to France, then back to the Jungfrau/Interlaken area (which is what most people mean by the “BO”) is a lot of diriving, even if going via Berne rather than Zurich.</i>
Oct 30th, 2008 | 04:45 PM
#6
Original Poster
Joined: Dec 2007
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Thank you both for the info. I'll get the map out this weekend and look at all the options you provided.
I know train and ferry will be best transport for many of the sites, but sometimes just getting to them presents problems (stairs, distance, etc). Dad really prefers riding in the car, but we'll try to do what we can. The timing (mid-May) is firm.
I'll be back with a little more fine tuning, but please, others, if you have suggestions, let me know!
annie
I know train and ferry will be best transport for many of the sites, but sometimes just getting to them presents problems (stairs, distance, etc). Dad really prefers riding in the car, but we'll try to do what we can. The timing (mid-May) is firm.
I'll be back with a little more fine tuning, but please, others, if you have suggestions, let me know!
annie
