Help with Scotland Itinerary Sep 2009
Dec 24th, 2008, 01:13 PM
#1
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Help with Scotland Itinerary Sep 2009
The Travelers: myself, wife and 5 yr old daughter. All somewhat experienced with daughter having suffered us through 9 trips to Europe. Fairly aggressive travelers willing to drive around (will have car) and visit multiple sites per day.
First time to Scotland for daughter, 3rd time for me and wife although not in more than 5 yrs. Have been to Borders, Edinburgh (and festival), Glasgow, Mull, Aran, Ayrshire.
Interests: History, castles, open air musueums, tourist traps (e.g., loch ness monster), ruins, light nature & wildlife, museums, things to do for kids. Am aware of Scotland Homecoming 2009 and will plan accordingly.
Current Agenda: 13 days in Scotland mid-Sept 2009.
Day 1: Arrive Edinburgh, drive to Falkirk Wheel (visit wheel, have already been to Stirling Castle) and then on to overnight in Ft. William.
Day 2: Jacobite Steam train Ft. William to Mallaig. Rent new car and onto Portree, Isle of Skye.
Day 3: Isle of Skye
Day 4: Isles of Lewis & Harris (stay in Stornaway)
Day 5: Isles of Lewis & Harris
Day 6: Lewis to Drumnadrochit (Urquhart Castle, Loch Ness Monster and Loch cruise)
Day 6 - 10 - up in the air, need advice. Thinking Inverness and Peth
Should I plan on 5 days in the outer Hebrides (daughter may be bored stiff)?
Day 11 - 13: Edinburgh
Day 14 - Fly home
Thanks for any suggestions.
First time to Scotland for daughter, 3rd time for me and wife although not in more than 5 yrs. Have been to Borders, Edinburgh (and festival), Glasgow, Mull, Aran, Ayrshire.
Interests: History, castles, open air musueums, tourist traps (e.g., loch ness monster), ruins, light nature & wildlife, museums, things to do for kids. Am aware of Scotland Homecoming 2009 and will plan accordingly.
Current Agenda: 13 days in Scotland mid-Sept 2009.
Day 1: Arrive Edinburgh, drive to Falkirk Wheel (visit wheel, have already been to Stirling Castle) and then on to overnight in Ft. William.
Day 2: Jacobite Steam train Ft. William to Mallaig. Rent new car and onto Portree, Isle of Skye.
Day 3: Isle of Skye
Day 4: Isles of Lewis & Harris (stay in Stornaway)
Day 5: Isles of Lewis & Harris
Day 6: Lewis to Drumnadrochit (Urquhart Castle, Loch Ness Monster and Loch cruise)
Day 6 - 10 - up in the air, need advice. Thinking Inverness and Peth
Should I plan on 5 days in the outer Hebrides (daughter may be bored stiff)?
Day 11 - 13: Edinburgh
Day 14 - Fly home
Thanks for any suggestions.
Dec 24th, 2008, 03:22 PM
#2
I can only write a brief note right now - dashing out for a party . .
But just to get you started - there are a few "issues" w/ your plan. The two biggest that I see are:
• Driving from EDI to Falkirk to Ft William after an overnight flight is seriously a problem. I'd plan on the first night either in Edinburgh or someplace near the airport like Linlithgow, etc. Either car-less in Edinburgh and pick up your car the next day. -- or -- w/ a rental car but w/i a few miles of EDI. Anything else could be dangerous . . . .
You have 2 weeks, so no need for a mad dash across the country in a jet lagged fog (which would be a criminal offense if you were to have an accident)
• You won't be able to collect a rental car - that can be dropped anywhere else - from Mallaig
So a bit of tweaking is in order
Now, off to celebrate!! You'll get lots more advice but it may be slow for the next day or two . . . . .
But just to get you started - there are a few "issues" w/ your plan. The two biggest that I see are:
• Driving from EDI to Falkirk to Ft William after an overnight flight is seriously a problem. I'd plan on the first night either in Edinburgh or someplace near the airport like Linlithgow, etc. Either car-less in Edinburgh and pick up your car the next day. -- or -- w/ a rental car but w/i a few miles of EDI. Anything else could be dangerous . . . .
You have 2 weeks, so no need for a mad dash across the country in a jet lagged fog (which would be a criminal offense if you were to have an accident)
• You won't be able to collect a rental car - that can be dropped anywhere else - from Mallaig
So a bit of tweaking is in order
Now, off to celebrate!! You'll get lots more advice but it may be slow for the next day or two . . . . .
Dec 25th, 2008, 07:11 AM
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mhdavidson - I am so glad to see someone else is taking the trouble to visit the Falkirk Wheel! We did it this May and were lucky enough to wander about in glorious sunshine - was a Bank Holiday Monday and the place was packed but somehow added to the carnival atmosphere. Didin't get to go on the Wheel as bookings were through until 5pm and we had to get to a campsite before nightfall.
We spent 14 days in England and if you click on my name can read my trip report with photos - some of Falkirk W. naturally!
We spent 14 days in England and if you click on my name can read my trip report with photos - some of Falkirk W. naturally!
Dec 25th, 2008, 08:02 AM
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I'm also planning a trip to Scotland - 2 weeks in June. Seeing this post made me go check out the Falkirk wheel. Looks incredible especially to an engineering type like me.
It looks to me like a half day visit.
TOD: Do you think it's worth a half a day on a two week visit to Scotland?
It looks to me like a half day visit.
TOD: Do you think it's worth a half a day on a two week visit to Scotland?
Dec 25th, 2008, 10:09 AM
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sssteve, the Falkirk Wheel is exceptional as an engineering work and as a piece of art. I visited in April and it was the highlight of my 3 day visit to Edinburgh. Combining it with a walk along the Antonine wall, I spent about 4h30m in the area, arriving by train at Camelon at 09:37, departing from Camelon back to Edinburgh at 14:18. Train journey was 35 to 45 minutes each way.
Dec 25th, 2008, 11:57 AM
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I would take some of days 6-10 and slow down a bit. Add a day in Skye, for example. My children were not bored there for two weeks, let alone two days.
Agree with janisj about not trying to do Falkirk Wheel and then drive to Ft. William on the first day. Maybe Falkirk Wheel, stay not too far from there, and drive to Ft. William in the morning? We did the Jacobite ride two years ago and did it as a day trip from near Inveraray, so it was possible to get up early and still make the train. But it would not have been a fun drive if we'd been traveling all day. Be sure you check for seasonal changes in the steam train schedule.
The car rental - I have to defer to others on this; we never tried changing cars. If you want to do the steam train, you can do it as a round trip from Ft. William and then continue on by car.
The steam engine was a must for us because my boys are both huge train fans. But you could also plan your schedule to drive to Mallaig and intercept the train along the way, if seeing it would be just as good as riding it, and then take the ferry over at Mallaig. Or one of you could take the train with your daughter, the other one could drive, and you could meet at the ferry.
A few days later, trying to do Lewis to Drumnadrochit, including Uruqhart Castle and a Loch cruise, also seems optimistic. We did Uruquart as a day trip from Skye and had to choose between a cruise and the touristy (but fun) exhibit in Drumnadrochit - did not have time for both in one day.
If you stretch that out over two days you still have a couple of days to play with at the end.
Agree with janisj about not trying to do Falkirk Wheel and then drive to Ft. William on the first day. Maybe Falkirk Wheel, stay not too far from there, and drive to Ft. William in the morning? We did the Jacobite ride two years ago and did it as a day trip from near Inveraray, so it was possible to get up early and still make the train. But it would not have been a fun drive if we'd been traveling all day. Be sure you check for seasonal changes in the steam train schedule.
The car rental - I have to defer to others on this; we never tried changing cars. If you want to do the steam train, you can do it as a round trip from Ft. William and then continue on by car.
The steam engine was a must for us because my boys are both huge train fans. But you could also plan your schedule to drive to Mallaig and intercept the train along the way, if seeing it would be just as good as riding it, and then take the ferry over at Mallaig. Or one of you could take the train with your daughter, the other one could drive, and you could meet at the ferry.
A few days later, trying to do Lewis to Drumnadrochit, including Uruqhart Castle and a Loch cruise, also seems optimistic. We did Uruquart as a day trip from Skye and had to choose between a cruise and the touristy (but fun) exhibit in Drumnadrochit - did not have time for both in one day.
If you stretch that out over two days you still have a couple of days to play with at the end.
Dec 25th, 2008, 12:01 PM
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Based on the initial feedback from janisj I have reversed my itinerary to reduce the 1st day's driving time and further issues with dropping a rental car in Mallaig.
Now I don't think I can easily make it to the Falkirk Wheel (sigh).
Day 1 - EDI to Perth (43m)
Day 2 - Perth
Day 3 - Inverness Area (would like advice on small to mid-size town to stay in, sites, etc.)
Day 4 - Inverness Area
Day 5 - Inverness Area
Day 6 - Bus from Inverness to Ullapool. Ferry to Stornaway (Lewis). Arrive 1:10PM. Hire 2nd car.
Day 7 - Lewis & Harris
Day 8 - Portree (Hire 3rd car)
Day 9 - Portree
Day 10 - Armadale to Mallaig. Jacobite Steam Train to Ft William (arrive 4pm). Difficult to find one-way rental car. Would like to get to Stirling for the night.
Day 11 - Stirling/Falkirk Wheel or direct to Edinburgh. Overnight in Edinburgh.
Day 12 - Edinburgh
Day 13 - Edinburgh
Day 14 - Fly home
We are very keen on the Jacobite steam train so trying to work that in has caused need to hire 3 separate rental cars (maybe 4 if I can get a one-way from Ft William to Edinburgh).
Would appreciate further input on itinerary as a whole and points of interest in Perthshire and Inverness area.
Now I don't think I can easily make it to the Falkirk Wheel (sigh).
Day 1 - EDI to Perth (43m)
Day 2 - Perth
Day 3 - Inverness Area (would like advice on small to mid-size town to stay in, sites, etc.)
Day 4 - Inverness Area
Day 5 - Inverness Area
Day 6 - Bus from Inverness to Ullapool. Ferry to Stornaway (Lewis). Arrive 1:10PM. Hire 2nd car.
Day 7 - Lewis & Harris
Day 8 - Portree (Hire 3rd car)
Day 9 - Portree
Day 10 - Armadale to Mallaig. Jacobite Steam Train to Ft William (arrive 4pm). Difficult to find one-way rental car. Would like to get to Stirling for the night.
Day 11 - Stirling/Falkirk Wheel or direct to Edinburgh. Overnight in Edinburgh.
Day 12 - Edinburgh
Day 13 - Edinburgh
Day 14 - Fly home
We are very keen on the Jacobite steam train so trying to work that in has caused need to hire 3 separate rental cars (maybe 4 if I can get a one-way from Ft William to Edinburgh).
Would appreciate further input on itinerary as a whole and points of interest in Perthshire and Inverness area.
Dec 25th, 2008, 12:22 PM
#8
Ok - you've caught me just as I'm going out again so can't follow up on a lot of this right now. But one thing I REALLY want to emphasize -- You absolutely <u>do not</u> want/need to keep dropping and picking up different rental cars.
remember - short term rentals cost much more per day than full week or longer rents. You can take the one (and only) car you'll need on the ferries. Yes a car on the ferry costs some ££ - but when you add up the extra for all these short rental periods you will more than make up the difference.
If you pick up your car in any major town/location (Edinburgh, EDI, Inverness, Glasgow, GLA, etc etc) - you can very easily get a one-way rental w/o extra drop off charges.
But if you rent in most any rural/island location, you will be dealing w/ small local agencies and 1-way rentals will be just about impossible since they do not have any other locations . . . . .
remember - short term rentals cost much more per day than full week or longer rents. You can take the one (and only) car you'll need on the ferries. Yes a car on the ferry costs some ££ - but when you add up the extra for all these short rental periods you will more than make up the difference.
If you pick up your car in any major town/location (Edinburgh, EDI, Inverness, Glasgow, GLA, etc etc) - you can very easily get a one-way rental w/o extra drop off charges.
But if you rent in most any rural/island location, you will be dealing w/ small local agencies and 1-way rentals will be just about impossible since they do not have any other locations . . . . .
Dec 25th, 2008, 12:50 PM
#9
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janisj - I understand about the added cost for having multiple rentals and this is not my preferred route. I would much rather keep 1 car from Edinburgh to Mallaig or Skye and take it on the ferries (which I have done in before) for the convenience factor alone. However, I cannot find an agency that has a location at EDI and also Ullapool, Lewis or Skye. I've checked the major travel sites, Kemwel/Auto Europe, Sixt and then local agencies but no luck. If I would give up on the Jacobite Steam train (or do a round trip as opposed to one way) then all this mess goes away but we really want to do that. The reversed agenda seems to work better in terms of maximizing time on Lewis & Skye. If you or anyone knows of a rental agency that meets the criteria let me know. Thank you.
Dec 25th, 2008, 01:57 PM
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Car problem solved. I'll drive from Portree to Ft. William on day 10 and take the round trip.
Day 1 - EDI to Perthshire (43m)
Day 2 - Perthshire (Perth or other interesting town/village nearby?)
Day 3 - Inverness Area (would like advice on small to mid-size town to stay in, sites, etc.)
Day 4 - Inverness Area (Drumnadrochit)
Day 5 - Inverness Area
Day 6 - Ullapool ferry to Stornaway (Lewis). Arrive 1:10PM.
Day 7 - Lewis & Harris
Day 8 - Portree
Day 9 - Portree
Day 10 - Portree to Ft William. Jacobite Steam Train to Mallaig and return(arrive 4pm). (Ovdernight in Ft William or drive to Stirling?)
Day 11 - Falkirk Wheel and then to Edinburgh.
Day 12 - Edinburgh
Day 13 - Edinburgh
Day 14 - Fly home
Day 1 - EDI to Perthshire (43m)
Day 2 - Perthshire (Perth or other interesting town/village nearby?)
Day 3 - Inverness Area (would like advice on small to mid-size town to stay in, sites, etc.)
Day 4 - Inverness Area (Drumnadrochit)
Day 5 - Inverness Area
Day 6 - Ullapool ferry to Stornaway (Lewis). Arrive 1:10PM.
Day 7 - Lewis & Harris
Day 8 - Portree
Day 9 - Portree
Day 10 - Portree to Ft William. Jacobite Steam Train to Mallaig and return(arrive 4pm). (Ovdernight in Ft William or drive to Stirling?)
Day 11 - Falkirk Wheel and then to Edinburgh.
Day 12 - Edinburgh
Day 13 - Edinburgh
Day 14 - Fly home
Dec 26th, 2008, 08:06 AM
#12
More to chew on . . .
You want to leave Portree early enough to make it to Ft William by 10AM? That is a 2.5 - 3 hour drive if all goes well. Just Portree to the Bridge can take over an hour if you get behind a lorry or caravan.
I know the steam train is sitting right there in the middle of your itinerary -- so enticing. But because it is in the middle of everything it really doesn't fit very well as part of the "itinerary". Think of it more a a day's excursion. So - don't try to rush to Ft William in time to catch the train. If riding the train is a must, try this instead:
See Falkirk Wheel first day (or not - you can also see it on your way back to Edinburgh) Stirling area one night >
Inverness area 3 days/nights >
NW Scotland/Ullapool area 1 day/night >
Outer Hebrides 2 days/nights >
Skye 2 days/nights >
Glencoe/Ballacullish area 2 days/nights (use one of those days for the steam train) >
Edinburgh last 2 nights (or stop over in/near Callander one night and then finish up in Edinburgh)
One other comment about the Jacobite train - is riding the train vital - or do you really want to see it and watch it cross the Glenfinan viaduct? The answer to that question will really determine how you should do this . . . .
"<i>I cannot find an agency that has a location at EDI and also Ullapool, Lewis or Skye.</i>" That is what I was trying to explain about rural or island agencies. You won't be able to either pick up or drop off a one-way rental in those types of places. You would mostly be dealing w/ tiny operations that are not affiliated w/ any national chains. Some are really taxi companies that rent out a vehicle or 2. You aren't talking about places w/ rental fleets. Just teensy villages and towns w/ a few rentals available.
So just collect your car and keep it the whole time.
As for a "mid-sized" town near Inverness -- Inverness IS the mid-sized town in that region. You will have a car so you can stay anywhere so don't worry about being in a town. I'd look for a place just east or just west of Inverness for your base. Near Culloden or as far as Nairn to the east. Or Beauly/Black Isle or thereabouts to the west.
Places/sites - a short list for the area could include, Culloden/Clava Cairns, Fort George (Ft George is HUGE and will take at least 3 or 4 hours), Urquhart castle, Cawdor and/or Brodie castles, Glen Affric, the Black Isle and the dolphins, Rogie Falls, maybe as far as Dunrobin Castle and Shin Falls
You want to leave Portree early enough to make it to Ft William by 10AM? That is a 2.5 - 3 hour drive if all goes well. Just Portree to the Bridge can take over an hour if you get behind a lorry or caravan.
I know the steam train is sitting right there in the middle of your itinerary -- so enticing. But because it is in the middle of everything it really doesn't fit very well as part of the "itinerary". Think of it more a a day's excursion. So - don't try to rush to Ft William in time to catch the train. If riding the train is a must, try this instead:
See Falkirk Wheel first day (or not - you can also see it on your way back to Edinburgh) Stirling area one night >
Inverness area 3 days/nights >
NW Scotland/Ullapool area 1 day/night >
Outer Hebrides 2 days/nights >
Skye 2 days/nights >
Glencoe/Ballacullish area 2 days/nights (use one of those days for the steam train) >
Edinburgh last 2 nights (or stop over in/near Callander one night and then finish up in Edinburgh)
One other comment about the Jacobite train - is riding the train vital - or do you really want to see it and watch it cross the Glenfinan viaduct? The answer to that question will really determine how you should do this . . . .
"<i>I cannot find an agency that has a location at EDI and also Ullapool, Lewis or Skye.</i>" That is what I was trying to explain about rural or island agencies. You won't be able to either pick up or drop off a one-way rental in those types of places. You would mostly be dealing w/ tiny operations that are not affiliated w/ any national chains. Some are really taxi companies that rent out a vehicle or 2. You aren't talking about places w/ rental fleets. Just teensy villages and towns w/ a few rentals available.
So just collect your car and keep it the whole time.
As for a "mid-sized" town near Inverness -- Inverness IS the mid-sized town in that region. You will have a car so you can stay anywhere so don't worry about being in a town. I'd look for a place just east or just west of Inverness for your base. Near Culloden or as far as Nairn to the east. Or Beauly/Black Isle or thereabouts to the west.
Places/sites - a short list for the area could include, Culloden/Clava Cairns, Fort George (Ft George is HUGE and will take at least 3 or 4 hours), Urquhart castle, Cawdor and/or Brodie castles, Glen Affric, the Black Isle and the dolphins, Rogie Falls, maybe as far as Dunrobin Castle and Shin Falls
Dec 26th, 2008, 12:01 PM
#13
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janisj - thanks for all your help. your comments were greatly appreciated.
sssteve - We really liked the Isle of Aran and mull so Skye was the next major island to see. Figure while we are there should go to Lewis & Harris as we will likely never be in that area again. Turns out a fair bit of historical sites (stones, ruins, etc.). We've seen a fair bit of southern Scotland and are saving the trip up to Shetlands & Orkey for another time.
sssteve - We really liked the Isle of Aran and mull so Skye was the next major island to see. Figure while we are there should go to Lewis & Harris as we will likely never be in that area again. Turns out a fair bit of historical sites (stones, ruins, etc.). We've seen a fair bit of southern Scotland and are saving the trip up to Shetlands & Orkey for another time.
Dec 30th, 2008, 12:38 PM
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CASTLES you say? What about going to the Castle Trail in Aberdeenshire before returning to Edinburgh? There are probably about 15 castles in the near-immediate area, plus you can go to both Glamis Castle (former home of the Queen Mum) and Scone Palace on your way back to Edinburgh.
Jan 7th, 2009, 02:44 AM
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Sorry to have missed this earlier. Must have been the celebrations!
You seem to have missed most of the Highlands on your previous visits- the pretty bits
If you email me, I'll send you a Word doc I put together ages ago with stuff for kids in it.
I must say, I liked the original version better. I always think you can over worry about the driving on arrival thing. You've been here heaps of times before, and know the road conditions. You're going a distance, but nothing to lose sleep over, and the roads are pretty good.
However based on version 3
Day 1 seems fine
Day 2- seems fine. You should consider spending a bit of time at the Coylumbridge Hotel- very kid friendly and masses to do in the area.
It looks good all the way back to Fort William- me, I'd stay somewhere else. And I'd come over the bridge the night before.
Technically Skye is Inner Hebrides, not Outer.
There is plenty to do on Skye. Lewis and Harris remain untouched by me, but you'll be fine if the weather is good. You might want to lop off a day.
If you fixed the route, let us know and I'll try to fill in some blanks for you
You seem to have missed most of the Highlands on your previous visits- the pretty bits
If you email me, I'll send you a Word doc I put together ages ago with stuff for kids in it.
I must say, I liked the original version better. I always think you can over worry about the driving on arrival thing. You've been here heaps of times before, and know the road conditions. You're going a distance, but nothing to lose sleep over, and the roads are pretty good.
However based on version 3
Day 1 seems fine
Day 2- seems fine. You should consider spending a bit of time at the Coylumbridge Hotel- very kid friendly and masses to do in the area.
It looks good all the way back to Fort William- me, I'd stay somewhere else. And I'd come over the bridge the night before.
Technically Skye is Inner Hebrides, not Outer.
There is plenty to do on Skye. Lewis and Harris remain untouched by me, but you'll be fine if the weather is good. You might want to lop off a day.
If you fixed the route, let us know and I'll try to fill in some blanks for you
