To anyone with advise: I am planning a 7-14 day trip to Krakow and southern Poland in June 2007. We will have 6-8 adults in our group and our primary goal is to visit my dad's birthplace near Krasnik outside of Lublin. On top of that, we will only be able to get a peak of some of the other "jewels" in SE Europe and that's it. I'd welcome comments on my proposed trip thus far, except PLEASE don't tell me we aren't allowing enough time in places as I am painfully aware of that already, unfortunately! Thanks!

(Day 1) - I would love to arrive in Warsaw and rent a van at the airport. I see alot of flights that get you in at noon-ish. We'd then make the 3 hr. drive to Lublin or Krasnik (4 hrs.) and stay there with really no time to see the city. (Days 2 & 3) - Drive off to my dad's village. (Day 4) - Drive from Lublin/Krasnik south through Tarnow (lunch stop) to Wielicka Salt Mines for late afternoon tour. Then on to Krakow that afternoon/evening for hotel check-in and dinner downtown. [N.B. While we are in this region, my parents have already declined to visit Auschwitz. They've been to camps in Germany and it was enough for them]. (Day 5) - From Krakow, drive to Widowice to tour the Pope's birthplace and try to make it to Czestochowa in the afternoon. Then back for overnight in Krakow. (Day 6) - Tour and stay in Krakow. (Day 7) - Drive to Zakopane (2 -2.5 hrs), explore town during day and stay overnight. (Day 8) - Drive to Budapest, arrive 1pm, visit city for afternoon, then hotel. (Day 9) - Drive to Wien (is it really only 2 1/2 hours???), visit Wien (half day), and overnight in Wien. (Day 11) - Then either fly home from Wien (preferred) or make the 6 - 7 hour drive up to Krakow fo return flight to US.

I have been using a Michelin Route Planner from the internet which appears to be helpful - not sure how accurate or up-to-date. http://www.viamichelin.com/viamichel...ing_directions

I FULLY realize we will barely scratch the surface at any of these cities. Our main focus is to give Dad time in his village and then to just squeeze in what we can since most of our party will probably never get back to Europe.

My Dad speaks Polish fluently although it's been many years since using the language. Also, I used to live in Germany and feel farely comfortable getting around in general.

Question 1: Due to reports from friends and media, my dad is almost paranoid about getting robbed in Poland/EU. He brings up many horror stories of thieves targeting rental cars, etc. I assured him I would find hotels with garages or guards. He insists on hiring a driver to accompany us through all of this. Any thoughts???

Question 2: Has anyone used a driver/guide for an extended trip? I know exactly where I want to go, and have extensively researched restaurant choices, tour operation hours, prices, when eng. tours are offered (e.g, Salt Mines), etc. Dad already speaks enought Polish - not sure why we need to pay for a driver and put him up in a hotel every night as well. Maybe some of you can convince me otherwise and talk me out of my stubborn Polish ways??! LOL. If we do it ourselves, how are the roads?

Question 3: Need a hotel in Lublin or Krasnik that could offer 3 or 4 separate rooms for our group. They seem to be quite limited.

Question 4: Any knowledge on cost effectiveness of flying into Krakow (or Warsaw would work too) and flying home out of Wien? Also, I've heard it's cheaper to drop your rental car back in Poland. Comments?

Dziekuje!

Yes: Budapest to Vienna is 260 kilometers

Ben Haines, London

You are very brave to be doing all that driving; the train would be less stressful but with your big crew it may be too expensive to get all the train tickets; when figuring out the prices remember that gas is VERY expensive in Europe. If it were me, I'd rent a car in Poland for a week and then do the rest of the countries by train. A driver seems to be a huge expense, but I have never done it so I cannot say.

Why fly into Warsaw? Could you get a R/T from the US to Krakow, Vienna or Budapest? If not, maybe easyjet, ryan air or sky europe could help with reasonable connections.

On day 4, I'd go directly from Krasnik to Czestochowa (4.40 hour drive); have lunch and then spend the night in Krakow

Perhaps you could visit Wadowice on your way to Zakopane? Or maybe you could stay in Bratislava for 2 nights and take a river cruise to visit Vienna on one day and then Budapest on the next?

Day 1 flight to Warsaw drive to Krasnik
2 Krasnik
3 Krasnik
4 Krasnik to Czestochowa to Krakow
5 Krakow (saltmine tour)
6 Krakow (wadowice in am)
7 Krakow to Zakopane (Wadowice on the way)
8 Zakopane to Budapest
9 Budapest
10 Budapest to Vienna
11 Vienna
12 fly out

Thanks, Moxie.
I lived in Germany for a few years and we drove around "hopping" like that from country to country quite a bit. So my only concern about the driving (besides high Petrol prices), is safety. We've heard quite a bit lately about car theft and break-ins, etc. I am trying to cerefully select only hotels/sites with guarded garages, etc. And, again, thank goodness, we have Dad's Polish.

I originally planned to fly into Krakow and make a big loop north to Lublin and down to family village near Krasnik, drive south, then west again to Tarnow, Salt Mines, then end up in Krakow again. The Warsaw to Krasnik drive is much quicker. The family does not care to spend time in Warsaw anyway, so we would just rent a van at airport and move out.

Then we could spend some time in Krakow and then drive 2.5 hours to Zakopane. I guess we could then drive the van back up to Krakow after and drop it off. Then take a train or bus?? to Budapest and on to Vienna.

I have heard it is MUCH more expensive to drop the car off OUTSIDE of country (Poland), but did not want to waste a day driving back up to Krakow. Then only to have to go south again on a train or bus to Budapest.

Does anyone have info on train/bus from Krakow to Budapest? I haven't really researched that yet.

I am concerned that my large party might get a bit anxious with baggage issues, possible transfers, etc. and thought driving ourselves we be easiest - albeit most expensive.

My Dad wants the security of a paid driver and vehicle but I can't see paying the price for that, to include the drivers' hotels & food (?) eveywhere (I'm sure it would all be in there in his large fee).

Plus, that adds on now a FOURTH room that we need to book everywhere and according to my checks online, the places I am most interested in staying are almost all booked already for June (high season). Now we need 4 rooms instead of only 3in a tight market. Yikes! I hate the idea of the big Radisson type places where all the big tour busses stay and am trying for mid-range smaller hotels or large pensions.

BTW, the driver I (Dad wants me to) consider is named Pawel Szczepaniec. I got his name from many threads last year. He is out of Krakow. Any comments on him/Pablo Taxi (company name)? They use 6, 7, & 8 passenger vans all outlined on their website. I am waiting for an estimate I sent him now.

FINAL thought to complicate things worse - we might be able to take an organized tour that begins in Warsaw and lands in Krakow two or three days later where we could join them and continue on if allowed. The "Warsaw" part of their tour (days 1-3), we would rent a car and drive to Dad's village with our own hotel until Krakow.

I am seriouslly thinking, that if they let us do that, this might be the very best option. So, Ok, we now will have paid twice for hotels & transportation for the first 2-3 days, but then that's it. No extravagent driver fees and extra room. Confidence about security and a room to spend the night in provided by the large tour. Confidence that we will get the sightseeing packed in there with the whirl-wind tour package. And still the first couple days to see our homestead on our own.

The 10 or so day tours I have found are about $2,500 to 3,000. My trip with us driving is calculated at about $3,500 pp so I think it would even out after we add on our extra transportation/hotel to family village. And I still haven't heard back to see what my driver would charge.

Boy, I've added a lot more "junk" here to decipher again. Can't wait until things get locked in!!!
-Diane

The reference library of a city near you may have the Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable. A direct train, with 3 berth sleepers and crowded 67 berth couchettes, leaves Krakow main station (beware pickpockets) at 2230. That station has pickpockets in groups of three, so you can take the luggage and most of you by taxi to the taxi stand on the roof of the station, pick up a luggage trolley, and take it straight down to your train by lift. Others of you can walk, but carry no valuables at all, and meet at the train. The night train reaches Budapest Keleti at 0922. It reaches Fuzesabony at 0745, and there you can drop bags at left luggage, take a taxi 15 kilometers, and go to breakfast in the Senator House Hotel in Eger, a good hotel in a beautiful small city. You carry on to Budapest any time. Good trains leave at 1248, 1443, 1548, 1643 (not Saturdays), 1743, 1848 and 1948. You should book seats in advance, but for a small fine you can usually board unbooked. The trains have restaurant cars, and run non-stop. Failing one of those, slower trains with no need to book and no restaurant car run at other times. I have on disc a note on getting the best from night trains: please ask me if you would like a copy: [email protected]/.

The daytime connection from Krakow is this: Krakow 1330, restaurant car from 1535, Breclav 1808 to 1952, restaurant car, Budapest Keleti 2322.

Theee may be a group fasre. If you are in the USA you can phone or e mail to ask
Budget Europe Travel Service, phone 800-441-9413 or 800-441-2387, site http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/
and Euraide of Florida, E-mail [email protected], phone
at the Florida office 941/480-1555, site http://www.euraide.com/. I can advise you if you need to book from outside the USA.

Ben Haines, London

Hi Magranedi -- just look out for the trucks and lorries along the way. I find that Polish drivers are really scary. Spent 6 days and driven around for almost 2000-km on a business trip back in 2004 and I was exhausted simply by looking at other drivers cutting lanes and thinking "Oh oh" every other minute. Coming from a country where roads are monitored by cameras and fines are handed out without mercy for speeding or lane-cutting, driving in Poland was terrible on my nerves.

Does the "Warsaw" tour also include Budapest and Vienna? If not, it does not sound like a good deal.

The problems I have heard about are break-ins to steal the luggage. If you do daytrips this will not be a problem. Yes, it is very expensive, or not allowed to return a car to a different country in my experience (even returning it to a different city defeats a 'good rate').

You can arrange any number of guided tours to the salt mines, Czectochow and Wadowice and even Zakopane from Krakow without having a private driver.
some links are:
http://www.cracowtours.pl/?p0=2
http://www.cracow-tours.com/john_paul_II.html

sample train circuits (direct trains):
Krakow-Wien 22.25-6.03
Wien-Budapest 10.03-12.58
Budapest-Krakow 19.10-5.45

Krakow-Budapest 22.30-9.22
Budapest-Wien 9.20-12.17
Wien-Krakow 22.23-5.44

from :
http://www.bahn.de
Dial + 49 1805 - 996633 from outside Germany (phone charges apply)

I just purchased R/T Prague-Krakow tickets from them (140€ first class non-sleeper).

I am not as courageous after transatlatic flights to drive 4 hours in a foreign land with a group of people. I would base myself in Krakow, rent a car/or the driver if your father insists and go to his village for 3 days and then do the rest by little tours and trains.

Good luck!

Dear Ben & Moxie,
Thank you for the info. on the trains to Budapest. After all of your very detailed comments, I have a better "mental" picture and believe it will be too much for our group (2 seniors, 1 sister who does not do well in "crowds," etc.). If it were just me and my husband, I'd go for it. You both have given me much to consider.

Sounds like a better idea might be sticking to more of my original plan. Fly into Krakow (not Warsaw), rent van to Dad's village (3 hrs. longer than from Warsaw but that's ok). Do all of rest of itinerary using only guarded garages (I already researched which hotels have them).

Then, if we still want to drive to Budapest and Vienna, we take one more day to drive back up to Krakow and drop car back at same airport rental office. The fly back to US.

Now, I just buy some good books and music, pass them out to my family, and tell them not to look out their windows at the Polish drivers cutting us off! I used to drive sightseeing vans around Germany on and off the autobahn and in the little local villages so I hope it can't be might worse.......!

I'll be interested in your final plan. I think you are great for taking responsibility for the planning and driving. Perhaps you and your husband can run off on the train for 48 hours to give the rest of the group some down time

If you need a specific info ask and I'll try to get it while I'm in Krakow (in 2 weeks).

Moxie, please do post an update of your adventure when you get back. Have a wonderful, safe trip!