Help with Europe itinerary for 30 days
Jun 24th, 2009, 11:20 PM
#21
After deducting your travel, I see:
• 1/2 a day in Zurich
• 2 days in Lucerne
• 2 days in Interlaken
• 1 day / no nights for Montreaux & Geneva
• 5 days Salzburg
• 1.5 days in Vienna
• 2 days Prague
• less than 2 full days in Rome
• 1 day - no nights in Venice
• 4 days in Paris
• 2.5 days in Scotland
• 2.5 days in London
IMO that is a lot in Salzburg; A day or two short for Paris but doable; Just about everywhere else is too short by a little or a LOT.
despite the arguing above whether folks were rude or not - this is a really, REALLY difficult plan. In most of those cities, by the time you have actually explored the neighborhood and got so you can find you hotel w/o getting lost - you will be packing and back on the train.
You will see a lot, miss even more, and probably not remember more than 3 or 4 of those stops when you get home. The rest will be a blur of riding trains. It really does read like a laundry list.
Since Zurich, London, and hotels in Vienna and Salzburg are set in stone, something else has to give. IMO unfortunately that means Italy and Scotland (And Scotland is my favorite place on Earth). You aren't spending enough time in Rome to see much of anything and no time in Venice. 2.5 days in Scotland is about enough time to see Edinburgh Castle and have a pub lunch (only a slight exaggeration)
Dropping all three places only nets you 5+ days but that lets you at least see a bit of London and maybe add a day to Paris. Unfortunately - because of the hotels you really can't add any time pre-Salzburg.
• 1/2 a day in Zurich
• 2 days in Lucerne
• 2 days in Interlaken
• 1 day / no nights for Montreaux & Geneva
• 5 days Salzburg
• 1.5 days in Vienna
• 2 days Prague
• less than 2 full days in Rome
• 1 day - no nights in Venice
• 4 days in Paris
• 2.5 days in Scotland
• 2.5 days in London
IMO that is a lot in Salzburg; A day or two short for Paris but doable; Just about everywhere else is too short by a little or a LOT.
despite the arguing above whether folks were rude or not - this is a really, REALLY difficult plan. In most of those cities, by the time you have actually explored the neighborhood and got so you can find you hotel w/o getting lost - you will be packing and back on the train.
You will see a lot, miss even more, and probably not remember more than 3 or 4 of those stops when you get home. The rest will be a blur of riding trains. It really does read like a laundry list.
Since Zurich, London, and hotels in Vienna and Salzburg are set in stone, something else has to give. IMO unfortunately that means Italy and Scotland (And Scotland is my favorite place on Earth). You aren't spending enough time in Rome to see much of anything and no time in Venice. 2.5 days in Scotland is about enough time to see Edinburgh Castle and have a pub lunch (only a slight exaggeration)
Dropping all three places only nets you 5+ days but that lets you at least see a bit of London and maybe add a day to Paris. Unfortunately - because of the hotels you really can't add any time pre-Salzburg.
Jun 25th, 2009, 12:41 AM
#22
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I agree with Janis. Drop Rome and Venice this trip, save them for a trip where you have time to actually see them. The way you have it now you will arrive, drop stuff at hotel, see a couple things then get back on the train. I'd reallocate that time to Paris.
Also agree, drop Scotland and spend that time in London.
Also agree, drop Scotland and spend that time in London.
Jun 25th, 2009, 07:31 AM
#23
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despite the arguing above whether folks were rude or not>
janis - there was no arguing that they were not rude - anyone would certainly say to say those things to a first-time ever poster was RUDE - no debate about it; the way you gave your take was an exemplar IMO how it should be done - a helpful critque without the attitude or name calling.
viajero2 - yes we all, me for sure, get carried away sometimes. cheers
janis - there was no arguing that they were not rude - anyone would certainly say to say those things to a first-time ever poster was RUDE - no debate about it; the way you gave your take was an exemplar IMO how it should be done - a helpful critque without the attitude or name calling.
viajero2 - yes we all, me for sure, get carried away sometimes. cheers
Jun 25th, 2009, 09:00 AM
#24
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Hi Anamika,
You must be exicted - a month in Europe! We'll my two cents is that it looks fine up until Vienna-Prague-Rome-Venice - that is the part that worries me on your behalf. North then far South then back North with very little time to see and enjoy in between. I would personally cut Italy on this trip BUT if that is really important to you, I would take those days you've now added to Scotland and redistribute them in Italy/Prague/Vienna to give you more breathing space. We are going to Central Europe too this August/Sept and are flying in and out of London, so I do understand you need to get to your end point but I would say there is still almost a bit too much "travel" in your travel plans.
Have fun!
Naxos
You must be exicted - a month in Europe! We'll my two cents is that it looks fine up until Vienna-Prague-Rome-Venice - that is the part that worries me on your behalf. North then far South then back North with very little time to see and enjoy in between. I would personally cut Italy on this trip BUT if that is really important to you, I would take those days you've now added to Scotland and redistribute them in Italy/Prague/Vienna to give you more breathing space. We are going to Central Europe too this August/Sept and are flying in and out of London, so I do understand you need to get to your end point but I would say there is still almost a bit too much "travel" in your travel plans.
Have fun!
Naxos
Jun 25th, 2009, 11:22 AM
#25
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Anamika - I'm not going to try to help with the first half, since it seems pretty set and I haven't been to Austria or Prague anyway. But I think you should cut out Venice (at least) and Scotland. If you go by your current plan, you'll arrive in Venice (feeling grungy and with minimal sleep), have nowhere to freshen up beyond a train station restroom, and spend a few hours wandering around Venice before dealing with the hassle of getting to the airport. I like Venice and all, but that's completely not worth it.
And definitely don't try to fit in Scotland; there's so much to see in your other cities. I like Edinburgh, but especially on a first trip, I'd much rather add that time to London or Rome. If you take out Venice and Scotland, you can have more or less four days in Paris, London and Rome, if my calculations are correct.
And definitely don't try to fit in Scotland; there's so much to see in your other cities. I like Edinburgh, but especially on a first trip, I'd much rather add that time to London or Rome. If you take out Venice and Scotland, you can have more or less four days in Paris, London and Rome, if my calculations are correct.
Jun 25th, 2009, 11:49 AM
#26
Since I'm crazy about the Lac Leman region and the towns of Vevey and Montreux (among others), I can't imagine going there and not even spending a single night! How can you see anything when you're training in from Interlaken in the morning, then leaving later that same day?
The new itinerary is a slight bit more realistic, but it's still no trip you could pay me to take. WAY too many places in WAY too short a time.
Can we at least cross off Scotland?
The new itinerary is a slight bit more realistic, but it's still no trip you could pay me to take. WAY too many places in WAY too short a time.
Can we at least cross off Scotland?
Jun 25th, 2009, 11:50 AM
#27
Oops I missed that part. OK same comment only even stronger for your Venice plan. I've taken an overnight train (twice) to Venice, you end up staggering around from lack of sleep that first day (or at least I did)... and you'll leave for Paris that same night?
I don't see the point of going to places as fabulously wonderful as Venice or Montreux, and not even spending one night.
I don't see the point of going to places as fabulously wonderful as Venice or Montreux, and not even spending one night.
Jun 25th, 2009, 11:57 AM
#28
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yup some folks just cannot sleep on overnight trains - there is a lot of noise from tracks, etc. and unless you have a pricey private double in a couchette you have snorers, etc. But me i can sleep thru thunderstorms so it's no problem and a great way of re-locating and saving on a hotel - i rather enjoy night trains and even after hundreds of them find them an adventure - an adventure that can be Hell on wheels though in a few cases with couchette mates that either were inconsiderate or in one case stunk to high heavens. But even a private double supplement above the pass (which with the train travel you prevue is a no-brainer IMO) it would be cheaper than what the average traveler here may pay for a hotel.
Jun 25th, 2009, 12:05 PM
#29
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Hi Anamika -
I would leave out Lucerne, Interlaken, and Insbruck, and concentrate on Vienna and Salzberg because they are both such beautiful cities. I would leave Greece for another trip. I would spend much more time in Italy in Venice, Florence, and Rome. Then I would subtract a day or two from Paris and spend the time in London. Sounds like a wonderful trip. Hope you have a great time!
I would leave out Lucerne, Interlaken, and Insbruck, and concentrate on Vienna and Salzberg because they are both such beautiful cities. I would leave Greece for another trip. I would spend much more time in Italy in Venice, Florence, and Rome. Then I would subtract a day or two from Paris and spend the time in London. Sounds like a wonderful trip. Hope you have a great time!
Jun 25th, 2009, 04:47 PM
#31
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I'm sorry - but the whole thing is till making me dizzy.
Agree that at a minimum you need to cut Italy and Scotland.
And there is no reason to stay in both Lucerme and Interlaken - they're only about an hour apart and it doesn't make sense to change hotels. Also, you need to know you can;t plan the Jungfrau in advance. Even when the weather is good in the valleys the mountaintops are often socked in by clouds - and there's no point in wasting time and money ascending since you can't see a thing. We had to wait until the third day before it was clear at the top. And when we went up Mt. Pilatus it was beautiful at the lake level, and even nice when we arrived at the top. After about an hour later (rain) clouds rolled in and you could see only a few feet in front of you. It's the same with all mountains of that height.
Agree that at a minimum you need to cut Italy and Scotland.
And there is no reason to stay in both Lucerme and Interlaken - they're only about an hour apart and it doesn't make sense to change hotels. Also, you need to know you can;t plan the Jungfrau in advance. Even when the weather is good in the valleys the mountaintops are often socked in by clouds - and there's no point in wasting time and money ascending since you can't see a thing. We had to wait until the third day before it was clear at the top. And when we went up Mt. Pilatus it was beautiful at the lake level, and even nice when we arrived at the top. After about an hour later (rain) clouds rolled in and you could see only a few feet in front of you. It's the same with all mountains of that height.
Jun 25th, 2009, 08:48 PM
#32
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It seems to me that the new itinerary pretty much just takes the time first allotted to Greece and moves it to Scotland.
Given how much time you are giving other places, and how little time you are giving Italy, it doesn't seem to hold that much interest for you, so perhaps you should skip it this trip. If I am reading you wrong, and you are really interested in Italy, then drop something else and give Italy more time. Otherwise, you won't get much out of your time there.
Rome is a big and somewhat demanding city. Make a list of what you really want to see there and how much time that will take. Then see if you have enough time allocated for it. I, personally, wouldn't take an overnight from Rome to Venice because the trip is not long enough to justify it, IMHO. Your time in Venice, arriving after a night on the train and flying out to Paris later that same day does not give you enough time to see anything in Venice except crowds of people. If you can't give it more time, then I really recommend skipping it altogether this trip.
If you really want to visit Italy, take the time in Scotland and give it to Italy.
Given how much time you are giving other places, and how little time you are giving Italy, it doesn't seem to hold that much interest for you, so perhaps you should skip it this trip. If I am reading you wrong, and you are really interested in Italy, then drop something else and give Italy more time. Otherwise, you won't get much out of your time there.
Rome is a big and somewhat demanding city. Make a list of what you really want to see there and how much time that will take. Then see if you have enough time allocated for it. I, personally, wouldn't take an overnight from Rome to Venice because the trip is not long enough to justify it, IMHO. Your time in Venice, arriving after a night on the train and flying out to Paris later that same day does not give you enough time to see anything in Venice except crowds of people. If you can't give it more time, then I really recommend skipping it altogether this trip.
If you really want to visit Italy, take the time in Scotland and give it to Italy.
Jun 25th, 2009, 10:31 PM
#34
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This is not unlike my very first trip to Europe. And I don't regret it a bit. Sure, I was younger then, but it gave me a good overview; I loved every bit of it; and having got that taste for it, I've been back several times.
Even now I still do sections of a trip this way (the newer parts perhaps), and other sections in a more relaxed way (the parts I've been to before but want to extend on). Works for me. Go for it, Anamika.
Even now I still do sections of a trip this way (the newer parts perhaps), and other sections in a more relaxed way (the parts I've been to before but want to extend on). Works for me. Go for it, Anamika.
Jun 26th, 2009, 07:20 AM
#35
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. I, personally, wouldn't take an overnight from Rome to Venice because the trip is not long enough to justify it, IMHO>
especially since i think this overnight train leaves around midnight - means a long wait just for the train. I take lots of overnight trains but usually ones that leave much earlier - waiting around for a midnight train is no fun IME
especially since i think this overnight train leaves around midnight - means a long wait just for the train. I take lots of overnight trains but usually ones that leave much earlier - waiting around for a midnight train is no fun IME
Jun 26th, 2009, 11:07 AM
#37
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Nope - you gotta spend more than part of one day in Venice or should IMO
yeh you can see why many call Venice the most beautiful city in the world in a few hours but you really need to be there at night IMO to really see how surrealistic it can be - the canal bridges are floodlit - the ancient facades are sublimely illuminated and best of all, the hoards of day trippers are gone - just sitting in San Marco Square and listening to the orchestras that pipe up at night is so so surreal in what is often called Europe's most exquisite square.
yeh you can see why many call Venice the most beautiful city in the world in a few hours but you really need to be there at night IMO to really see how surrealistic it can be - the canal bridges are floodlit - the ancient facades are sublimely illuminated and best of all, the hoards of day trippers are gone - just sitting in San Marco Square and listening to the orchestras that pipe up at night is so so surreal in what is often called Europe's most exquisite square.
Jun 30th, 2009, 12:49 PM
#40
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Please give comments on our revised itinerary (its yet slightly dumb) –
19 August – Depart from Sydney to Zurich
20 August – Arrive in Zurich around 1.30 pm and leave to Lucerne in the evening
*I would suggest going straight away to Lucerne and poking around town whilst recuperating from jet lag.
21 August – Sight-seeing in Lucerne (Mt Titlus)
22 August - Sight-seeing in Lucerne and go to Interlaken in the eve by scenic train
*Add another day to Lucerne and on the final day just leave on a morning train to Interlaken
23 August - Sight-seeing in Interlaken (Jungfraou)
24 August – Sight-seeing in Interlaken (Schilthorn)
25 August - Take scenic train to Montreaux, lake Geneva and then in the night catch train from Geneva to Salzburg to reach 26’th morning
*I think this is doable but a long day of trains - i myself would do it and do all the time but be sure you want to spend most of the day and night on a train?
26 August - Salzburg , Austria (relax and city tour)
27 August - Sight-seeing in Salzburg ( Danube valley ?)
Danube Valley is too far for a day trip from Salzburg but a great one from nearby Vienna - move one day from Salzburg to Vienna to do that
28 August - Sight-seeing in Innsbruck (day trip from Salzburg )
29 August - Sight-seeing in Salzburg (Halsatt)
30 August - Travel to Vienna , Sight-seeing in Vienna
31 August - Sight-seeing in Vienna
1 September - Travel from Vienna to Prague
2 September - Sight-seeing in Prague
3 September - Sight-seeing in Prague and Fly to Rome either 3’rd night or 4’th morning
4 September - Sight-seeing in Rome
5 September - Sight-seeing in Rome and leave by overnight train to Venice
*Add another day at least in Rome - the night train to Venice i think leaves after midnight - a long wait in Rome, etc. Take a day train to Venice perhaps
6 September - Sight seeing in Venice and fly to Paris
* You should add IMO another day to Venice - do some islands or whatever and here is a good night train to take the Artesia Hotel train to Paris vs flying - save a hotel cost and wake up in Paris
7 September - Sight-seeing in Paris
8 September - Sight-seeing in Paris
9 September - Sight-seeing in Paris (day trip to Versailles )
10 September - Sight-seeing in Paris
11 September - Travel from Paris to Scotland ( Edinburgh or Inverness – which is better ?)
12 September - Sight-seeing in Scotland
13 September - Sight-seeing in Scotland
14 September – Travel from Scotland to London
* add these days in as i suggest above
15 September - Sight-seeing in London
16 September - Sight-seeing in London
*And add at least a day into London - two days ain't enough.
17 September – Fly from London to Sydney to reach Sydney on 19 September
Oh well just suggestions - but could be a very doable trip.
19 August – Depart from Sydney to Zurich
20 August – Arrive in Zurich around 1.30 pm and leave to Lucerne in the evening
*I would suggest going straight away to Lucerne and poking around town whilst recuperating from jet lag.
21 August – Sight-seeing in Lucerne (Mt Titlus)
22 August - Sight-seeing in Lucerne and go to Interlaken in the eve by scenic train
*Add another day to Lucerne and on the final day just leave on a morning train to Interlaken
23 August - Sight-seeing in Interlaken (Jungfraou)
24 August – Sight-seeing in Interlaken (Schilthorn)
25 August - Take scenic train to Montreaux, lake Geneva and then in the night catch train from Geneva to Salzburg to reach 26’th morning
*I think this is doable but a long day of trains - i myself would do it and do all the time but be sure you want to spend most of the day and night on a train?
26 August - Salzburg , Austria (relax and city tour)
27 August - Sight-seeing in Salzburg ( Danube valley ?)
Danube Valley is too far for a day trip from Salzburg but a great one from nearby Vienna - move one day from Salzburg to Vienna to do that
28 August - Sight-seeing in Innsbruck (day trip from Salzburg )
29 August - Sight-seeing in Salzburg (Halsatt)
30 August - Travel to Vienna , Sight-seeing in Vienna
31 August - Sight-seeing in Vienna
1 September - Travel from Vienna to Prague
2 September - Sight-seeing in Prague
3 September - Sight-seeing in Prague and Fly to Rome either 3’rd night or 4’th morning
4 September - Sight-seeing in Rome
5 September - Sight-seeing in Rome and leave by overnight train to Venice
*Add another day at least in Rome - the night train to Venice i think leaves after midnight - a long wait in Rome, etc. Take a day train to Venice perhaps
6 September - Sight seeing in Venice and fly to Paris
* You should add IMO another day to Venice - do some islands or whatever and here is a good night train to take the Artesia Hotel train to Paris vs flying - save a hotel cost and wake up in Paris
7 September - Sight-seeing in Paris
8 September - Sight-seeing in Paris
9 September - Sight-seeing in Paris (day trip to Versailles )
10 September - Sight-seeing in Paris
11 September - Travel from Paris to Scotland ( Edinburgh or Inverness – which is better ?)
12 September - Sight-seeing in Scotland
13 September - Sight-seeing in Scotland
14 September – Travel from Scotland to London
* add these days in as i suggest above
15 September - Sight-seeing in London
16 September - Sight-seeing in London
*And add at least a day into London - two days ain't enough.
17 September – Fly from London to Sydney to reach Sydney on 19 September
Oh well just suggestions - but could be a very doable trip.
