Lesa

We are planning a 4 week trip to Europe, would appreciate any help with our schedule.<BR>We will have 1st class Eurail in October next year.<BR><BR>Rome - 3 days<BR>Amalfi Coast - 2.5 days<BR>Florence - 2 days<BR>Venice - 1 day<BR>Vienna - 3 days<BR>Prague - 2 days<BR>Salzburg - 1.5 days<BR>Innsbruck - 2 days (would like to summer ski Stubai Glacier??)<BR>Paris - 3 days<BR>Bordeaux - 1 day<BR>Bayonne - 3 days with friends<BR>Nice - 2 days (visit monaco)<BR>La Spezia region - 2 days<BR>Back to Rome<BR><BR>Any input would be appreciated.<BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>Lesa

SA

Way too much, allow more time in Florence & Venice. Cut out Salzburg (& Prague) due to the distance. Also cut out the 1 day in Bordeaux. Perhaps work in Munich & leave out Innsbruck.

brownie

Wow..that's another whirlwind itinerary. <BR><BR>Do you know what you'll be doing at these places for that amount of time? I've always found it easier to work out how long I'd like to spend in each place by actually figuring out what I want to see and hence, how long I will need.<BR><BR>At first glance, I'd say you'll be making full use of your Eurail Pass, no question. I'd probably add a few more days in Florence & Prague but where to take these days from is a toughie.<BR><BR>I hope you're planning on booking your accomodation beforehand, cause it will save you time when you arrive at place X, in wandering around and checking out places.<BR><BR><BR>Good luck and enjoy!!<BR><BR>-brownie.<BR><BR>P/s:I am reachable via e-mail if you need.<BR><BR><BR><BR>

Bob Brown

I agree with the previous evaluation.<BR>First of all, it takes longer move from city to city than you are envisaging.<BR>Secondly, I think you are not allowing time for delays, minor chores like laundry, transportation within cities, and the fatigue that sets in after about two weeks. <BR>Paris and Rome both can use up far more time than you have allowed. Let me give you an example. After 3 trips to Paris, I still have attractions on my list that I have not yet seen. I spent a week in London and never exhausted my list of category 1 attractions.<BR>You also will be spending a tremendous amount of time on the train with your schedule. <BR>Venice certainly is worth more than 1 day. I agree on Bordeaux unless you know something I don't.<BR>I think Prague is an attractive option, but you need to look at train schedules. I don't think you have factored transportation time into your plans at all.<BR>For example, going from Innsbruck to Paris by train and Prague to Salzburg will take considerable time.<BR>The best schedule Prague to Salzburg will take you 7 and a half hours; Innsbruck to Paris is 8 plus hours, unless you want a route that requires 5 changes of train.<BR>Venice - Vienna is another 7 and a half hour trip.<BR>I think you would run a lot and not see much. <BR><BR>

Ira

Hi Lesa,<BR>I agree with the writers who suggest that you are trying to do too much.<BR>I estimate that about five days and three nights of your trip will be spent on trains.<BR>Have you checked train schedules? The German railways have schedules for all of Europe at<BR>http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/que...ewrequest=yes& <BR>This is the English version.<BR>Happy planning.

Boo

Hi.<BR><BR>Yes, your itinerary is far too ambitious. All of these are great places but the effort to get to them will kill you. As long as you have the passes, may I suggest what I did 20 years ago? Do it seat-of-the-pants. Get to your first target city then stay as long as you wish until your ready for city number 2. You can always book a room at the train station tourist services. This leaves you free to make changes based on new info (You may hate Florence or Paris!)<BR><BR>More importantly, you'll need to REST! You're schedule will keep you sufficiently harried that you'll begin to hate yourself and each other. The luxury of a whole month can turn into a nightmare if you're fatigued; you won't be able to appreciate the wonders before you.<BR><BR>Remember: This is ONE trip! You WILL go to Europe again. Plan so you can enjoy it rather than cursing you're itinerary.<BR><BR>Have a nice trip.<BR><BR>You're welcome.

Rex

The most important question, in my mind is how to improve this itnerary, not cast it aside as hopeless. The two worst aspects, besides the too much moving around are the jump from Innsbruck to Paris, and then from Bayonne to Nice. Perhaps you are very accustomed to long distances in Australia, but these are just way too long - - and moreover, quite unnecessary.<BR><BR>I assume that preserving your visit to friends in Bayonne is important to you. You should try to move, generally speaking, east-to-wst, or vice versa. And not try to force it into a circle.<BR><BR>For example, start in Vienna and end in Paris. I would recommend omitting two of the "furthest at the edge" points: Prague and the Amalfi coast.<BR><BR>With those suggestions, you will still have a very ambitious trip. But it will still be feasible and enjoyable.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

up and over the top

for Lesa, down under<BR>

Lesa

Thanks for the tips guys, yes I thought you would all say it's a tough ask trying to fit everything in and will take this into account. All the long distance trips on trains will be done overnight on sleepers so we don't waste our days. Also have to depart and arrive in Rome as we are using Frequent Flyer points to get there. Thanks again for the info. Any info on Stubai Glacier would be appreciated.<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>Lesa

Betsy

Lesa! You have gotten some EXCELLENT advice here from people who are very well-traveled. Your reply leads me to believe that you have dismissed most of it. Listen up, girl! You have planned WAY too much for the time alloted and will run yourself absolutely ragged. Your itinerary makes me want to burst into tears.<BR><BR>I have a couple of points to add, though I fear they're falling on deaf ears: First, it's often easier to fly into one city and out of another if you're using FF miles than if you're buying a ticket, so check it out with your airline. Second, if you aren't able to rearrange your entrance and exit cities, then at least skip Vienna, Prague, Salzburg, Innsbruck and Bordeaux for this trip. You won't be sorry!<BR><BR>Vienna, Prague, Salzbur and Innsbruck will make wonderful itinerary for your next trip.

Lesa

No haven't dismissed it Betsy, so don't panic will definitely take all advice on board. I will say though the chances of getting back to Europe on a regular basis are limited from OZ, so it's just tough to know what to cut out...hence the thread for advice.

brownie

Hi Lesa,<BR><BR>With regards to frequent flyer miles, we had the ol' ansett/star alliance one and we used thai airways to fly into paris and then out through rome. So the two city thing is still an option.<BR><BR>If I remember correctly Lauda Air is a member of the alliance so you may possibly be able to arrive in PAris do the south of france bit, get a train to rome and then move your way upwards and end in Vienna. That will save you from having to move full circle. <BR><BR>-brownie<BR><BR>

brownie

Sorry Lesa,<BR><BR>Just re-read your post. <BR><BR>We didn't use FF Miles to get to Europe, we just collected by using FF member airlines.<BR><BR>-brownie.

Bob Brown

After reading the responses to the original question, I still am convinced that too much time is going to be lost train hopping. There is the urge to "see it all", get the most "bang for the buck", and "do it right" sort of thinking. <BR><BR>First, you cannot see it all. I tried to convey that message when I said that I still have sights on my Paris list that after 3 trips are still unvisited.<BR>Even if you go at it 14 hours a day, bear in mind that you will still see various attractions very superficially -- so much so that I wonder if any thing of substance will be recalled in 2 years.<BR><BR>As for getting the most out of the time you are there, my own guess is that you will be so tired after 3 weeks that the 4th one will be a major drag and you will find yourself saying to heck with more than one visit. I know that happened to me in 2000. We had gone at it hard for 15 days. On the 16th day in Vienna, I misread a street car notation on the map and took the wrong car while trying to find the Belvedere.<BR>When I realized my mistake, we were near a U-Bahn station. Rather than going on, we went back to the hotel and fell asleep. In essence I said to heck with that place. We saw the Belvedere last year, and concluded that we made the right decision the previous year.<BR><BR>I do not agree that running fast and furiously is the right way to see Europe, or any place else for that matter. Events blur, details are skipped, and there is no time to linger over an unusual, extraordinarily pleasing sight. Also, should you stumble into something that appeals to you that is totally unexpected, there is no time to take it in because you must get on to the next sight.<BR><BR>In reviewing your schedule, I still feel that you have factored in insufficient travel time. You will not have 3 days in Paris because it will take you all day to get there from Innsbruck. <BR>And, given the travel time, you will have either virtually no time in Venice or 2 days in Vienna. And with the length of time it takes to get from Prague to Salzburg, you will have 1 day in Prague or about 1 short day in Salzburg. <BR><BR>I think I can sum it up by giving you my wife's answer to a fellow who asked her how long it takes to see everything in Paris. She replied "About an hour if you hire a helicopter."<BR>Your trip; do it your way. But, bear in mind that you are missing more than you are seeing.

Ira

Hi Lesa<BR>May I make a few suggestions for amending your trip?<BR>If you base yourself in Rome, you can take day trips to both Amalfi and Florence without having to pack and unpack.<BR>You can add two days to your Venice stay.<BR><BR>I also suggest that, if possible, you take the train from Venice to Vienna on Sunday. The mountains are beautiful.<BR><BR>You can do a day trip from Vienna to Salzburg rather than going to Prague and then coming back. This will add a day to your stay in Prague or Vienna.<BR><BR>Is the ski trip to Innsbruck really necessary? It takes as long to get to Paris from Innsbruck as from Prague.<BR><BR>Instead of stopping in Bordeaux with all of your luggage, you could go on to Bayonne and do a day trip to Bourdeaux from there. It's a 1 1/2 hr trip without your luggage.<BR><BR>Hope that this helps.

snorkelman

Unless you take night trains, you will never be able to spend the time in the cities that you think. Take a look at how long your train travel is going to take. Many are long (8) hour trips. Either cut out some stuff, or plan on never being able to spend as much time in each city as you think. By the way, Paris and ROme deserve 3-4 COMPLETE days each at an absolute minimum.

Marla

You have a very tiring schedule, why not save some of these countries for another time? <BR>Vienna does not require 3 days, we were in Switzerland and Austria this year. Vienna and Salzburg are terrific and you might consider a one day trip to the Eagle's Nest-Berchtesgaden about 10,000 feet on top of the mountain get spectacular views--near Obersalzburg. Innsbruck was beautiful also. <BR>I'm not overly impressed with Prague--I would save for another time. Personally, I would drop Prague and Bordeaux. <BR>Also Cannes is more charming than Nice-in fact we had a horrible visit to Nice. Paris has so many places to see and it shouldn't be rushed--it's a magical city so it's worth the extra time--get your museum pass ahead of time online. Don't miss the Rodin Museum with Napoleon's Tomb across the street. Linger in a cafe and relax.<BR>So my suggestion would be:<BR>Rome-3 days (day trip to Pompeii) <BR>Amalfi Coast-2.5 days<BR>Florence-3 days (day trip to Siena)<BR>Venice-2 days<BR>Vienna-2 days (don't miss the Lipp. Stalions)<BR>Salzburg-1.5 days<BR>Innsbruck-2 days<BR>Paris-4 days (day trip to Giverny and Versailles)<BR>Bayonne-3 days<BR>Cannes-2 days<BR>La Spezia-2 days<BR>Back to Rome<BR>

Jim

Lesa, <BR>I worked out the driving distance you would travel following your itinerary and it comes out to just under 3,700 miles. I would definitely cut down on some of your destinations.

Simi

Lots of train time! As with previous poster, perhaps you should eliminate some destinations for future trips. Also, it's nice to have time to enjoy what each city/town has to offer.<BR>Suggested itinerary:<BR>Rome-3 days <BR>Amalfi Coast-3 days - (Capri, Pompeii)<BR>Florence-3 days - (Siena, San Gimigiano)<BR>Venice-1 day<BR>Vienna-3 days - (Schonbrunn Palace, nicer than Versailles)<BR>Salzburg-1.5 days<BR>Innsbruck-2 days<BR>Paris-4 days<BR>Bayonne-3 days<BR>Nice-2 days<BR>La Spezia region-2 days<BR>Back to Rome

Lesa

Thanks to everyone for their input, it is greatly appreciated. We are now thinking of just touring Italy and France and saving Austria and Eastern Europe for a skiing holiday in a few years time. So will probably be bothering you again in the near future for more itinerary ideas. Cheers