My friend and I are starting to plan our first trip to Europe and we are in need of ideas of places to go and things to do. We are both 23 and fresh out of college searching to have a fun first adventure in Europe. We know that we probably won't get to everything we want to do, but here is a list of places we want to visit. We will be starting in Spain and would prefer to do a circular route by train.

Spain
France
Italy
Austria
Czech Republic
Germany
Netherlands
UK

We are looking to spend about 6 weeks traveling in Europe, equaling out to maybe 5 days in each country. I realize this is pretty ambitious but we have done similar trips in South America.

We are very outdoors-type people and are looking to see the sights but also to do some skiing, hiking, biking, camping, etc. We are going to try to get by as cheap as we can and so I'm guessing traveling by train and staying is hostels is the way to go?

All in all, we are a little clueless as to how to get started and so any ideas/advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

go to a travel agent and get some brochures and see how the coaches travel - youll get a sense of how much ground can be achieved at a fast pace and what the logical routes are

my son didnt really like amsterdam even though he was there twice
once with kontiki and once on his own

google itineraries for 3-5 stays in regions that appeal
you will need to google pics or go see some books of what sort of places you like to see

italy is pretty easy - the towns are close together so you can see a lot
id do venice 2 days visit florence for a day then go down to rome for the rest - three days if youre pressed

most young people dont enjoy vienna too much in austria - it's a grand city but perhaps a bit sedate for the young- we loved the woodlands near kahlensburg though - easy hiking up around there along a bus route that winds itself up through small towns and forests

go see prague for a couple of days but make sure you train it out to cesky krumlov for a day or overnight - only a three hour trip by train

so much to see in the uk but if youre only doing five days
id see london in two
and go out to bath and stonehenge for another
then the cotswalds and another daytrip say to canterbury
easy by train
just dont stay at the picadilly hostel though ( in london) - that was a true dive!
i always recommend switzerland - now theres beauty in a nutshell ( unless youre from canada or new zealand - i dont think anything compares!)

my son has been to germany and has loved it

im not very familiar with france - have only been to paris which was really beautiful
enjoy the world - youll be planning your next trip no doubt when you come back!

Hi St,

Way back when I was your age I did a similar trip.

My only clear memory is a group of people standing around me at a train station wondering whether I was sick, drunk or stoned.

In truth, I was exhausted.

With 6 weeks, choose six major points to visit with daytrips from each.

You can check the travel times and train schedules at www.bahn.de.

I suggest starting in the UK (it is fairly easy to learn the language) and then going to Paris, Bavaria/Salzburg, Venice/Florence, Southern France, Spain.

After you have a draft itinerary, come back and we will help you improve it.

Enjoy your planning.

A few thoughts...

The Czech Republic will not be covered by your rail pass. You need to think hard about going out of your way (and the extra expense) to see Prague (which is WONDERFUL - especially for a young traveler - but you should still think it through). If you do decide to include Prague, consider the overnight train (get a bed) frome Venice, Italy and then another overnight from Prague to Munich after visiting Prague.

If you set on a circular route, then limit your Italy visit to the northern part of Italy, the rest of it is a peninsula and not easily traveled in a "circular" route.

Consider some other parts of Austria in lieu of Vienna, as mentioned, Vienna is better suited to a more mature traveler. Maybe not - are you a serious classical music buff.

Most important: DON'T ASSUME YOU NEED TO DO A "CIRCLE". You most definately want to fly "open jaw". Open jaw simply means you fly into one city and home from another. For instance: Start in Amsterdam and fly home from Venice, or Rome.

Book some rooms in advance. Start with www.eurocheapo.com for a great listing of hostels, B&Bs and one star hotels in all the different cities.

My friend and I just did a similar trip this past May. We also wanted to go to The Czech Republic, but as of right now it's not covered by a rail pass. Taking the train is the easiest way for you to travel. Here's a look at where we went (looks just like where you want to go)

Flew into London
then took easyjet plane to Berlin
train to Amsterdam
train to Paris
train to Salzburg
train to Munich
train to Rome
train to Cinque Terre
train to Barcelona
then flew back to London on easyjet

As you can see, we also did the "circular route" and it worked out for us. So, if you can't do an open jaw flight, don't worry.

You first need to figure out which cities you want to visit. Then you need to place the cities into when you want to visit them. Oh, also getting the train schedule from the website will also be helpful. www.eurail.com is a great site to get your ticket and they have a HUGE PDF of train times. This is helpful because you never know if the train might not run on the day you want to leave (we ran into that problem!).

Book your hostels in advance, many of them want you to have reservations before coming in. THis is also much easier (you'll feel better having this done).

I think I'm starting to ramble now, so if you have any questions, please send me a message!
Jenn

Same old, same old! Get out of the travellers rut. Do something that will be remembered. A week long bike tour in France or Germay. A week long sport school in England. Rent a canal boat..An immersion language course. Maybe Italian or French cooking classes. Try a kayak trip in the Polish northeast. Check out University hotels...

You will be overwhelmed by the advice very soon. So, is you are starting to plan the trip, then lined up your planning resources wisely; get two basic travel guides based on your age and interest: the Lonely Planet Europe Guide and Let's Go Europe Guide (published by the Harvard Students Association). Get a sense of MUST SEE first and nice to see next. Drop the nice to see off the list. There is your baseline draft plan. Go frrom there.

Post back please as your plan develops, the posters in this forum offer the best travel advice for independent travelers you will find on the Internet. Have fun planning!

Even with 6 weeks, this is overly ambitious.

If you really are outdoorsy it will take you some time to do the hiking, etc. so pick at least some places that are not necessarily on the "Grand Tour" and that lend themselves to that sort of thing.

I assume this will be a summer trip??

First consideration: summer weather is intimidating in southern Europe. This, the expense, and the summer crowds could be a decent reason to axe places like Rome, Florence, etc. and generally to limit your travel south of the Alps.

Speaking of Italy and the Alps, why not a few days in the Dolomites? You'd probably enjoy the most scenic part of the Alps as well - which is Switzerland's Bernese Oberland, IMO.

There are some terrific long-distance hiking paths in England. Look into the Cotswolds region and have a look at Paul Theroux's Kingdom by the Sea for ideas. Hiking and biking are extremely popular in southern Germany. The Black Forest is full of good routes and scenic towns. To the east, Bavaria offers a good combination of sights and outdoor activities. Have a look at the Garmisch area. Along the Rhine and Mosel rivers, touring and mountainbiking routes take you past medieval castles and through historic towns and vineyards.

Hostels are probably your best option in larger cities. In smaller towns, hostels in the Netherlands and Germany are often located and equipped to accommodate bicyclists. But in small towns you can also stay cheaply and more comfortably in private B&B's; you can find plenty of such places in the Black Forest, for example, for around 20 Euros each with a bit of looking around.

Vienna is pretty dull. Cutting it would reduce your train travel too.

To maximize your on-the-ground time, I'd definitely think about keeping your trip radius tight and travel mostly within the UK, the Netherlands, France, and Germany, and maybe pop into the other countries here and there for a short look around. If you end up in southern France, Barcelona isn't far, for example, and Salzburg is a daytrip from Munich.

Even with 6 weeks you will have trouble conquering all of Europe in the time you have. I would sugges what others have. Go to a travel agent and get some of the big bus tour books to give you an idea of what is availble and what interests you.

If you start with Spain, which you said interests you, then add Paris, London, Rome and a few other places that catch your fancy you will quickly fill your time with a rich experience.

The more you know about travel in Europe--and I have done it 25 times---the more you realize that is not about countries--it is all about regions. Spain takes 6 weeks by itself---Italy takes more. However, you can see most of Catalonia or Tuscany in a week. That is how you should plan. Your plan is much too ambitious. I would start in Paris and end in Rome and have 10 destinations in between. Average 3 days per destination--more in the major cities---and plan for a max of 4 hours travel time from one to the other. Trust me---I have planned 220 trips for others.

If you have done similar trips in South America, I think Europe would be a breeze for you.

Don't let people tell you the plan is too ambitious, you will be tired, but your 23 and probably up for it!

You probably already realize that you won't see everything in each area or city. So my advice would be to hit the library and check out the guide books that cover your countries. Write down all the things that you would be sad if you didn't see - lay those destinations out in geographical order and you have your trip!

If you are going to do mostly hostels, I would recommend, at least sometimes, upgrading to a B&B or apartment. You can typically find fairly inexpensive ones. Check out different ones at www.tripadvisor.com I swear by this site.

Since it's such a long trip, also plan for days that you do no sightseeing, only catch up on sleep and laundry.

I had a subscription to Budget Travel Magazine for a while and they had great tip - most article are online. http://www.budgettravel.com/

Also, make sure to go to each countries official tourism website - usually you can get free tourism info sent to you in advance or download guides. And make sure to check the Event calendars - you never know when a really cool festival or regional fair may be happening.

We also like Rick Steves guidebooks and advice - he sometimes looks for the cheaper way to go and has a "backdoor" series that may be helpful. Check out his website.

Good luck and have a blast!

www.lonelyplanet.com has a forum called The Thorn Tree that can best help you with the trip you want to do.

There's lots of experience here at Fodor's but your trip sounds more like the standard student/backpacker itinerary and pace (hence my recommendation of the good folks over at Thorn Tree).

Hi stomper9,

I'm going to differ with some posters, although I have enjoyed the time I've spent in the UK, and say that getting there and back would use up time you could spend more profitably elsewhere. (If you were saying you'd always dreamed of going there, that would be different, of course.) I think the suggestion about staying in northern Italy is a good one for the same reason

I'm also going to say that a circular route starting and ending in Spain does not make sense. Take the suggestion about an open-jaw reservation seriously and, when you look at the price, consider the time you will save (and the extra use you will get out of a rail pass) not having to backtrack all that way.

But if there is some reason you "have" to start and end in Spain, you could head north first, up towards Paris, over to Germany/Austria, down to northern Italy and then back through southern France. That gives you a week in each country, plus a week to play around with. Or you could add the Czech Republic/Prague, which is worth a few days even if it's not on your rail pass, or use that week to bop up to England from northern France.

If you want to do outdoorsy 'stuff' you will need some of that extra time to get off the beaten track. Search these forums for threads on cycling and camping; I know there have been some interesting ones, and that might be a good way to get off the train circuit for a few days.

Get the guidebooks that were recommended and skim through them to see what jumps out at you. If you post again later with more specific dates and a few "must sees" you will get lots more suggestions.

You'll have a great adventure no matter where you go! Have fun planning.

I did a 10-week trip to Europe (and Israel) when I was 21. The only time we flew was from Athens to Tel Aviv and back to Zurich. At the end, we were ready to come home, but it was a fabulous trip. We aren't much into "the outdoors" (unless we're outdoors window-shopping LOL), and prefer to spend out time in big cities and quaint small towns, but in 10 weeks, we were in London, Paris, Madrid (Toledo), Barcelona, Geneva, Florence, Rome, Athens, Spetsai (Greek island), all over Israel, Zurich, Lucerne, Munich, Amsterdam and Copenhagen (we flew into London and home from Copenhagen). We pretty much went whereever the train was going when we got to the train station!

Ah, to be be young and adventurous again. GO FOR IT!!!

Anyway, I agree with the idea of not doing a circle, start in one place, go home from another, this can allow you to see lots more.

Something to consider, balance the train passes vs. renting a car. As an example, I can rent a small car in Amsterdam dropping it off in Munich or Paris, total 27 days, unlimited miles. Cost is about $1,000 through Sixt. I'm using my Visa card for the insurance. 2 people on a 1 month global pass will be about $1,800.

Yes, you must pay for gas and tolls, but you also get to go where you want, when you want. A small car can get really good mileage. We found it was cheaper to rent in the Netherlands and drop off in France or Germany than any other combination.

So, say you flew into London, spend a week in southern England/Wales.

Next stop, Amsterdam, spend a couple of days, rent the car.
(Day 9 trip, Day 1 car)

Take about 4 days to drive down to Bavaria. We found a great apartment in Bayerisch Eisenstein for about 40 euros per night, right on the Czech border.

Use that as a base. Prague, Munich are about 2 hrs away. Austria is about 3 hours. Budapest is about 4 hours.Spend 10 days in that area. With the apt. as a base, you can leave your stuff and pop around to other places, even staying overnight as the costs are already low for the convenience.

(Day 23 trip, Day 14 car)

From Bavaria, drive across to France. Spend 10 days just driving through, ending in Paris. Drop off the car. You can take camping gear with you and save some accomodation money by camping all over Europe.

(Day 33 trip, Day 24+ car)

Now, from Paris, use one of the cheapo airlines to fly to Spain. Bus or train around the country, then fly over to Italy. Start in Venice, end in Rome.

So, start at the top, end at the bottom. Most of all, have fun.

Dave, will they be able to rent a car at age 23? In the US, some companies will rent cars to under-25s, but at a much increased cost.

stomper... congratulations! what a wonderful time you're going to have. this will be a trip you'll remember for the rest of your life. i did one similar to this at 22 after graduating college -- i went with my sister for 5 weeks and we visited 6 different countries. I would definitely suggest buying a railpass and a really comfortable backpack. pack as light as you can.

we picked one or two cities in each country that we visited and explored:

--the netherlands: amsterdam
--belgium: brussels
--france: paris, grenoble, nice/cannes
--italy: rome
--austria: vienna
--germany: passau (had family there), berlin

we flew RT from amsterdam b/c it was the cheapest at the time.

our approach was to pick a few things that we had always wanted to see, even if they were small things, and make it happen.

I.e. I learned about grenoble, france, in french class and wanted to visit. We stopped in Vienna to see the painting "The Kiss" by Gustav Klimt. I wanted to see the reconstruction in Berlin before it was too late. We wanted to see where the film festival took place in Cannes... etc.

A note on Vienna -- I've seen several posts indicating it's a more mature audience -- believe it or not, one of our best nights was in Vienna... they happened to be having a festival that night (the Donaufest??) and it was so much fun. Check out festivals, particularly in Austria or Germany if you go -- they know how to party!

I would suggest not overbooking yourself or overplanning. But if you're going in the summer, I would suggest making hostel reservations in advance. At age 23, I would definitely suggest hostels. They're the right price and all the ones we visited were clean, comfortable, and relatively safe. You can even find private rooms for two with bath in some. I'd be happy to try to find the names of the ones we stayed at if you're interested, but it's been almost 8 years since our trip, so I don't know if it would be worth it. We had a day in Rome where we had a LOT of difficulty finding a place to stay bc it was high season.

When picking a hostel, I would check how far it is from public transportation, from the rail, and from the downtown. There were a few we stayed in that were nice, but out of the way, and after a long day of sightseeing in hot weather, the last thing we wanted to do was walk the mile from the public transportation stop to the hostel.

London is my favorite place in Europe, but expensive. If you're looking to cut a place, I might consider the UK because of the cost. The UK is a great trip on its own.

Beware the rules when you get a Railpass. I still recall the time I didn't get mine stamped before getting on the train in France and was yelled at in French by the conductor -- I had no idea what he was saying but somehow he managed to get $100 out of me right on the train. I was so embarassed bc he kept yelling at me in front of everyone and to this day, I'm not even sure what happened there.

Anyways, best of luck!! Enjoy the planning -- you'll have a great time on your trip

With Sixt, and probably with other firms as well, the minimum driving age is related to the type of vehicle. An 18 year old can rent some, 21 other. The terms and conditions spell it out.

They would need to contact them to make certain.

dave

Don't let the fact that Prague isn't included in the rail pass stop you. You only pay for the ticket from the border to Prague and it isn't that much money.

bookmarking