thursdaysd

I was just reminded of the DCC scam. I have read threads here recently that say that cash has pretty much vanished in Scandinavia, so I would be using a credit card most of the time and couldn't avoid the DCC scam by using cash. (My cards carry either zero or 1% foreign conversion fees.) However, I don't remember seeing the Scandinavian countries - or Germany - mentioned on the DCC threads. Is that because it isn't prevalent there? I'd just like to know how vigilant I need to be.

Odin

If cash has pretty much vanished from Scandinavia, I am not aware of it. When I do pay by credit card, I have never been presented with the option of the amount in my own currency, it is always in DKK or SEK.

What you do need to be aware of when paying by credit card in Denmark, is that you might be charged 3-4% more for using a foreign credit card. This is what I think you should be watching out for as well as DCC. Usually this info is posted somewhere like menus etc.

Kathie

Odin, I have read several news stories in the last month about Scandinavian countries (Denmark first) trying to eliminate the use of cash. Of course, this is a multi-year project, but the articles made it sound as if people would be actively discouraged from using cash.

Odin

Thanks Kathie for the advice, but I visit Denmark several times a year and have a house in Sweden, which I also visit several times a year. I have never been discouraged from using cash. I'm sure it will happen but it hasn't happened yet, at least not to places I go to. There are places however that do not take foreign credit cards.

Kathie

Thanks for the info Odin. As usual, the reports are not necessarily grounded in reality.

Odin

Car rental places will not take cash, there could be other places that don't take cash but I haven't been aware of it. I do pay by credit card for bigger purchases like hotel stays, groceries etc so use a mix of cash or credit card as I see fit. In Sweden I couldn't pay cash on the bus but I think that is usual in many countries. It would be the same for trains. I can't think of anything else but I'm sure someone else will chime in. I paid by coins for something in a supermarket in Sweden recently, you have to put the coins in a machine which counts it. I can't imagine they wouldn't take cash at the farmers market. In Gilleleje I tried to buy fiskefrikadeller but they would not take my non Danish credit card so I had no choice but to pay cash.

dyoll

Cash is fast losing out in Sweden and Norway. Read in the newspapers that 30% of Swedes no longer carry cash. Probably about the same in Norway. Everything, even the smallest amount can be paid by card everywhere, only exception is local buses when you pay the driver - buy tickets with card in convenience shop. Some middle distance buses are still cash too - doubtless phased out soon.
Government is pushing for this to reduce the black economy, shops pleased to avoid handling cash and so are customers, except those earning black who are becoming more obvious an perhaps the elderly. However there is no active discouragement from using cash for small amounts - large amounts over NOK 10 000,- are not allowed as cash transactions.
With chip and pin cards the transaction goes quicker than cash and everything automated so costs are low. Our fellow Europeans who are struggling with their economies due to high level of black economy would do well to follow suit.

dyoll

I got 'scammed' with the DCC thingy on a visit to Sweden (cheap shopping for Norwegians at one of the huge border shopping centres) didn't notice that the payment was in NOK and wasn't asked as they are supposed to do. Cost around 5% compared to the rate I got in other shops paying in SEK.
No need to worry about using cards - just keep your eyes open and refuse to sign/pin anything in the wrong currency. Any waiter trying that on loses any hope of a tip from me (not that we tip much or anything in Norway anyway). Getting cash is going to cost you at least 5% too anyway - check the exchange rates!

Finecheapboxofwine

I can see Sweden becoming cashless. It's happening slowly but then they are selecting images for new kronor bills so we are baffled.

Have you heard of an app called Swish? It was developed in Sweden. Here's an article from three years ago talking about Sweden becoming a cashless society.

http://www.thelocal.se/20121219/45172

I've only recently been seeing people using Swish. We "Swished" money to a parent who in turn bought teacher gifts at the end of the school year. Local youth sports take Swish at their food kiosks.

My bank doesn't have cash and never did for as long as I've lived in Sweden. I was like, "huh"?! when I tried to deposit cash there and was turned away. The closest city to where live has only one bank in town that handles cash and this is a popular commuter suburb. Other cash transactions are done at the Forex exchange. I can also pay bills there if I want.

thursdaysd

Thanks very much for the info. Looks like I will be using cash in Denmark!

However: "Getting cash is going to cost you at least 5% too anyway - check the exchange rates!"

Care to explain that? My Capital One account charges zero ATM fees and zero foreign conversion fees, and uses the interbank rate.

greg

I was in Denmark last year. I was probably the only one in stores using cash even for buying a cone of ice cream! It was not discouraged. It was as if the locals didn't use cash anymore.

On the other end was Turkey. It was cash only at many places including the Istanbul city transit. The consequence of not taking any credit card was that the vending machines were perpetually out of service due to machines filling up with cash.

Dukey1

Is it a "scam" when people know how it works and allow it to happen anyway?

thursdaysd

A lot of people do not know that it exists and/or how it works. Also, the intent of the perpetrator is what makes it a scam.

Definition of scam from Merriam Webster:

: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation <an insurance scam>

The intent is to deceive.

dyoll

Exchanging cash-cash is going to cost you at least around 5%, more if it's one of the less popular currencies.
Capital One card sounds great - wish that sort of deal was available here. cash withdrawal with a credit card from ATM costs around 2%, plus Visa/Mastercard rate around 2% plus interest (though you could keep the account in credit to avoid that).

chartley

"Is it a "scam" when people know how it works and allow it to happen anyway?"

Curiously, the new cash machine in our local supermarket now advertises "DCC" as one of the service sit offers, along with charity donations, topping up your pay-as-you-go mobile phone, etc

I have no idea what it means, but something advertised in this way can hardly be called a scam.

I sometimes wonder if DCC is designed to the sort of tourist who likes the idea of spending their home currency while abroad.

Christina

<<Capital One card sounds great - wish that sort of deal was available here. cash withdrawal with a credit card from ATM costs around 2%, ,,,>>

You aren't understanding, no one is suggesting you make a cash withdrawal with a credit card. She was referring to a Cap One debit/ATM card to get cash from an ATM. I don't know where you are from, but I am surprised they don't have such things as bank cards (aka debit card) and you must use a credit card to get cash from an ATM. I don't know of any country like that.

I think DCC is only a scam if you aren't warned nor asked a choice (which has happened to me). Otherwise, it's just a bad deal and some folks don't know enough math or about currency to know that. And the reason it exists is exactly because there are some people who really do prefer to have a charge in $ so they know what it is. I have no idea why, but I know there are as I've talked to some. Somehow it makes them anxious to not have the amount in $ and they aren't good with math so can't figure it out easily in their head as to about what it will be. Of course you don't need to know anyway if it is being charged to your card, it's a strange phenomenon but exists. I think most of the people who use it don't know it will be a worse exchange rate, though.

thursdaysd

@dyoll - I am talking about an ATM aka debit card. I would only use a credit card for an ATM withdrawal in dire circumstances or by mistake. Doing that is always expensive.

@chartley: "I have no idea what it means, but something advertised in this way can hardly be called a scam."

If you have no idea how it works, how can you know whether it is a scam? Your faith in the advertiser is touching, but misplaced.

dyoll

Credit card is slightly more expensive than debit card for cash withdrawals in a foreign country for my Norwegian cards - There is still a charge for withdrawal with the debit card and the Visa/MasterCard mark up (around 2%) - there is also the monthly interest payable for cash on a credit card.

thursdaysd

@dyoll - don't know about Norwegian cards, but typically American credit cards start charging interest on cash withdrawals from the day of withdrawal, instead of giving a grace period as they do for purchases. Since I pay my purchases off every month, I never worry about the interest rate, but if I used the card to withdraw cash I would have to.

nanabee

I do think it's easier and more convenient to go cashless in Norway and Sweden. You can make very small purchases with a credit card whereas in the US many shops require a minimum purchase or you're forced to use cash.