I’ve enjoyed your thread, Mel, I know I’ll never get to Portugal, and TR’s are my way to ‘see the world’.
Glad you shared about crowds, I remember feeling suffocated in Milan and Florence and realising that as much as I want to visit, I’m going to stick with quieter destinations.

I checked ‘availability’ calendars for accommodation in some of my wish list places in Europe and full until end October!!
A few random dates free but essentially this year looks packed.

Karen, we arrived at the castle just before 11. Later than we'd normally go to an attraction, but we had COVID tests to get out of the way first.

Just curious. If Lisbon wasn't crowded, do you think you would have liked the city? Did you enjoy the sites you saw?

Yes, we enjoyed what we saw for the most part but the sheer number of people really put us off. And the litter and graffiti (not to be confused with street art) and everything that comes with masses of humanity - noise, traffic, beggars, homelessness, etc . Big, crowded dirty cities never have been our thing, but we were willing to give it a go.

"Returned to apartment to hide from people and the wind until we leave tomorrow.

Actually looking forward to going home and leaving this craziness behind. We've also decided to cancel our trip to Austria and Germany in early June; unwilling to chance that that they too will be overrun with pent up demand."

Yep. I so get that! But we are so grateful that you did give it a go this time; I just love seeing your photos. But I will more enjoy seeing your photos from your vacations that feed your spirit and make your soul soar! Anyway... until your next trip to peaceful spots!

s

I wonder if Lisbon has changed since we were there in 2018. We didn't see any litter (at least nothing significant) and would never have described Lisbon as dirty. We didn't see beggars and homeless people, either. Of course, there will always be noise and traffic in cities.

Melnq8, your trip to Portugal may've had its ups and downs (I know, literally!), but your photos have been fabulous and it's very exciting to see them! If you've had some disappointments with the trip, it certainly doesn't show in the gorgeous pix you've posted.Thank you so much - I so appreciate the efforts you've made to share your trip with us as you went along.

I will admit to some moments of trepidation about my own upcoming trip but I'm hopeful we'll find our way, and, as NYers, I'm probably more used to city grittiness and crowds (or well primed to avoid them!). So I also appreciate the reassurances from Maribel, KarenWoo, mike1728, and others who have posted their thoughts and suggestions. There are a number of personal family issues I'm involved in that have added a layer of stress, so that has taken its toll on me. And I'm still a bit frustrated that we have to take a test to enter Portugal -- especially since it seems that the airlines don't bother to check the results more than half the time - at best! But we will do it - we certainly don't want to be the ones caught without them.

I'm so sad that your reaction to Lisbon was "Big, crowded dirty". Of course, I haven't been there for a while, and we all see things through our own filters, but Lisbon is one of my favorite cities. I never thought of it as big, but my standard for big is London and New York (and lets not get started on the Asian mega-cities). Of course it's not as clean as Vienna, for instance - you always know you've arrived in Switzerland or Austria when you cross the border - but it didn't strike me as excessively dirty. I like a city that feels like a city. You have got me worried about the crowds, though. My previous go-to hotel was just off Praca dos Restauradores, sounds like I need to find another.

thursdaysd,
I believe I remember the hotel where you stayed. It was the Florescente, correct? Or was it the VIP Eden that now gets mixed reviews?.
The area around Praça dos Restauradores and between it and Rossio (Praça Dom Pedro IV) has become increasingly busy and crowded over the years. We've seen the change incrementally and last month passed by it daily.

As I've mentioned here often, the dividing line between the worst of the noise, traffic, "tourist tat" shops, fast food joints, human statues, mediocre restaurants with buskers and the calm and serenity of more "manicured" Lisbon starts at the bottom of Avenida da Liberdade and up from there.
I remember (or think I do) that KarenWoo stayed at the Real Palácio, up near Eduardo VII Park. That area gives me a completely different perspective of the city, as does the area just south of, and to the east or west of, Marqués de Pombal square.

I think your enjoyment of Lisbon may just be a function now of where you stay. We traveled all over the city to revisit different neighborhoods, and we saw a distinct difference, the further away we removed ourselves from the tourist-congested Baixa area.

In Chiado, for example, we would probably no longer rent the apartment directly on Praça Luis de Camões due to the noise and bustle of that particular square, but would still feel comfortable staying around the Praça do Carmo, next to the ruins of the Convento do Carmo, on the Largo do Carmo or around it.

(I can't remember where your apartment sits, progol, but I think it might be in that area of Chiado)

I would urge anyone when renting an airbnb to use the Google street view function to see what your immediate vicinity will look like before making your decision. There are streets in the city that have been nicely "finished" or "gentrified" or "beautified" and some that still consist of derelict buildings that still cry out for some TLC, like in any large city. And there is a great deal of construction going on all over Lisbon.

Just some thoughts...

Yes, it was the Residencial Florescente. I looked it up recently and discovered it had gone up market. Last time I was there it had added a restaurant to the breakfast room, and now it has a pool. Of course, the prices have gone up accordingly. It was a block or so off the Praca and only just below the Hard Rock Cafe, so the location was really convenient for the airport bus and for public transport (and the Bom Jardim!). I did spend a couple of nights at the Eden, and was definitely not impressed, but that was 2008. If I could afford it I would stay at the Avenida Palace, of course.... As it is, looks like a need a new Lisbon "home".

thursdaysd,
I thought it was the Residential Florescente. We passed it daily on our "back way" walk north, up to our hotel. I can understand its popularity given its convenient location for public transport, the train to Sintra, and for piri piri chicken at Bomjardim.
(The Aerobus isn't running this year.)
I just checked the rates there for November with my Genius Level 3 discount on booking.com and on the hotel's own web page. It's actually still a good value for a newly renovated 4-star hotel, given comparable 4-star hotel prices. Another new hotel next to it is the Lisbon Wine Hotel but not any cheaper.

Our favorite "home", the Hotel Britânia has also upped its price since our March stay, when they graciously offered us the same rate as the one booked when we had to cancel in Dec. Hotel rates have increased significantly this year in Lisbon given its status in 2022 as a "hot destination".

Hi Maribel, We are staying at the Altis Avenida hotel in September. Interested on your thoughts on that location ... hopefully ok, since I'm not going to change. Interesting report Melnq. Usually when crowds see our group, they steer clear of us.

Well, maitaitom.......enjoy the splendid views from their Rossio roof top terrace bar/restaurant!, since you're not going to change. The hotel sits directly on Rossio (Praça Dom Pedro IV), right across from Rossio station.
One day when we needed a pick-me-up because we were flagging and seeking a rest before our last climb, we went up to the terrace for the views, chill out music and an expensive drink--not expensive by LA/Seattle standards, of course, but by Lisbon local standards---it's a 5-star hotel, after all. We didn't see the rooms but we did enjoy our Alvarinho.


Rossio square on a Sunday morning--getting an early start to beat the crowds


Views from the Altis Avenida roof top bar


https://www.therooftopguide.com/blog...ar-lisbon.html

It seems from what you're saying we will need a lot of Alvarinho to put up with the crowds near our hotel. Well, it could make for a good story, unless I find a less busy area. It looked like a good choice when I made it. In any case, it will acclimate us to the crowds that we'll face in Sintra.

maitaitom,
If you got a good rate when you booked it, just keep it.
We didn't have time to check out the rooms, but given the room amenities (Nespresso machines!!, robes, etc.) they should be extremely comfortable. The décor of the rooftop gastrobar is gorgeous--molto chic. And the wine list was curated by the sommelier of the Michelin-starred Feitoria in the Altis Belém--hence, our world class alvarinho

Maribel, you are right in that we stayed at the Real Palacio Hotel. It was about a 10-minute walk to the Gulbenkian, and located in a very, very quiet neighborhood. In 2018 we paid $170 for a good--sized room with a large bathroom, including a delicious breakfast buffet. We enjoyed our walks down Ave Liberdade to the city center. About a 20-25 minute walk. As I previously mentioned, I didn't recommend our hotel when people were looking for hotel suggestions because everyone wanted to be close to the center. But maybe now with the increase in crowds, that may change.

<< In Chiado, for example, we would probably no longer rent the apartment directly on Praça Luis de Camões due to the noise and bustle of that particular square, but would still feel comfortable staying around the Praça do Carmo, next to the ruins of the Convento do Carmo, on the Largo do Carmo or around it.

(I can't remember where your apartment sits, progol, but I think it might be in that area of Chiado)>>

We are on Rua Nova do Almada, so off Rue Garrett and just a few minutes walk from Largo do Carmo. I hope it’s reasonably quiet! We’re on the 5th floor 🤞🤞🤞

progol,
I like that area.

Progol, I like that area too!

Whew!

Whew is right! Thank you Maribel and Helena!

progol,
"A Vida Portuguesa" is just a short hop away as well as "Alcôa" and "Castro" for a double whammy of nata!

maitaitom,
Here's your alvarinho!


From the Minho, cheers!