huckleberryFinn

Ok, I have a tentative itinerary for a 23 day tour of Central Europe (it's gone through numerous revisions that at one time included the Iberian peninsula and discounted Rome) but it still feels stretched and thin. I'll lay it out and please let me know what you think--additions, subractions, etc. I've been to all of these places before (except in Germany and Austria) but my wife has never. When asked, she would like to see the Alps, but then on second thought she concedes the need to see "the sights." For me, some of the sights were seen and did not move--hence one of the previous versions sans Rome (at 18 years of age I chose it rather than Venice, which I have yet to see, and was not disapointed but not overly impressed either. Sue me, I like the countryside). So, here goes: Depart second week of May--

Arrive Vienna AM, stay 1 night and second day; night train to Venice.

Arrive Venice AM, stay 3 days, 2 nights; night train to Rome.

Arrive Rome AM, stay 2 days, 2 nights; rent car.

Drive through hill towns 3 days, 3 nights. Last day dovetails into Florence, for one more day and night.

Arrive Cinque Terra noonish, stay 2 days, 2 nights.

Arrive Avignon, rent car, tool around Provence 1 1/2 days, 1 night.

Arrive Chamonix PM, stay 1 night.

Over Mont Blanc into Aosta Valley to Como, stay 1 night, 1 day; night train from Milan to Innsbruck.

Rent car, tool around Hall, Insbruck and vacinity and drive to Salzburg; 2 days, 1 night.

Train to Munich, hop "Romantic Road" bus to Frankfurt; night train to Paris.

Arrive Paris Am, 2 days, 2 nights; fly home

Ahhhhh! This list seems to change daily. I may have lost my perspective. What can you show me?

christieCA

Okay, my first impression is that you are trying to do WAY too much and cover too much ground. You are going to see the inside of trains/cars more than anything else.

Is your flight already booked? If not, I don't see why you are going to Vienna. I can't imagine 1.5 jet lagged day will do it any justice. And then to get on a night train right after a flight just sounds exhausting. (BTW, I did do a night train after a flight when I was 20 and it was exhausting then). I love night trains, but that many in such a short time would spoil my trip.

I honestly would eliminate at least half of the destinations on your list. That way you can enjoy the places you are. Also, maybe you should throw in a little more Alps since that is your wife's first impression. A week in Switzerland would be great!

I'm sure your final result will be fantastic!

ira

Hi HF,

>I have a tentative itinerary for a 23 day tour of Central Europe ...<

Except for Vienna, you are not in Central Europe at all.

Since your plan is to visit Italy, Germany and France, I suggest that you drop Vienna.

The rest of your expedition is much too crowded.

2 nights in Rome?!
2 nights in Paris?!

Dukey

First of all, I can relate to all the "you're doing too much" comments you may get. Having done more than one 2 nights here and 2 nights there and 7 countries in a month stuff (and thoroughly enjoying it) I think sometimes those comments are valid and sometimes not..only YOu can decide IMO.

First;;why the night train from Venice to Rome? i know all about asving a night in a hotel but the fastest timing between these two cities is less than five hours.

Do you think the "room will be ready' when you get to Rome early in the morning? I wouldn't count on it.

The route; you are going to Rome and then BACK to the hill towns? Which ones? in Tuscany? if so, why the backtrack?

Assume you are going by rail from the CT into France. How long will that take?

Even i think you may be doing too much in too short of a time period and you can ask anyone here, <b>I rarely, if ever say that</b>.

degas

If Dukey says you are doing too much, too fast, then you know you are in real deep kimchee.

Throttle back and smell the roses.

More time: Rome &amp; Paris.

Drop: Vienna.

Don't do: night trains.

ira

The secret to taking a night train from Venice to Rome (if you really want to) is to go to Trieste and take the night train from there.

huckleberryFinn

Yeah, well, that's about what I expected. Thanks so much. Now that I've been slapped around a little I'm starting to see things a little more clearly. Keeping to an even keel, how does this route strike you:

Arrive Rome--3 days, 3 nights
Drive to Florence--3 days, 2 nights (in Arezzo or Sienna or ? as home base)
Florence--2 nights, 1 full day
Train to Venice--2 days, 2 nights
Train to Salzburg (a day); 3 nights, 2 days,
Train to Innsbruck, 2 days, two nights
Train to Lucerne (a day); 2 days, 2 nights
Night train Zurich to Paris, 3 days, 3 nights, depart--

22 days including arrival and departure.

This cuts Vienna, Cinque Terre, Provence, Mt. Blanc/Como--farewell Shelley!--but adds a day each to Rome and Paris. The trip won't be happening for another year (May 2008)--need to get my chops back up on my German, French, and Italian--so suggestions are, as always, welcome. Thanks!

cupid1

Gosh, I don't pretend to have the knowledge or experience of the others, and I'm an admitted &quot;if I'm taking the trouble to get somewhere, I'm staying there a minimum of 4 days before moving on&quot; type of person. Your new list looks much better, but you'll recall you can spend a week frantically racing from one to another and still not do justice to even a small percentage of the many charming and lovely hill towns in Tuscany and Umbria.

Since you have plenty of planning time and your itinerary is sure to change many more times, why not first make a list of every reason why you want to include a city/region (one city per page). That may help you figure out what's really most important to you and why so that you can get the most out of each location and select the others for another trip. (Have your wife do the same, and if she doesn't, then the itinerary is totally up to you.) This would help lessen the amount of time you spend in transportation and maximize your enjoyment of the sights, smells, sounds, and tastes.

Presumably you are planning this trip to do just that, Huck, not spend it in planes, trains, and automobiles? ;-)

ira

Hi Huck,

It's better.

I'm confused by
Drive to Florence--3 days, 2 nights (in Arezzo or Sienna or ? as home base)
Florence--2 nights, 1 full day

Are you planning on 5 days touring Tuscany, and only 3 days each in Paris and Rome and 2 in Venice?

I think 2 nights might be 1 too many in Innsbruck. It's under 2 hr from Salzburg. Why not make it a daytrip?

ira

PS,

You ought to consider that each time you change hotels you lose about 1/2 day.

You will be spending about 4 days of your visit traveling.

Have you considered one week each in Paris, Venice and Rome with a daytrip or 2 from each?

Fly into Paris, take www.myair.com from ORY to VCE, train to Rome and fly home from there.

You could save Switzerland, Germany and Austria for another visit.

capxxx

Two suggestions:

+ Bundle your Florence/Tuscany visit into one place. There is no reason to change hotels: either stay in Florence and take day trips to Siena, or vice versa.

+ If you want to trim some more, drop Innsbruck and spend those nights in other places. Its a nice enough town, but nothing spectacular.

huckleberryFinn

Agreed. I thought the same thing about 4 hours after I last posted. But now I have solidified a plan and I feel pretty comfortable with it. After reading an extensive post on a trip to Florence and Venice, I remembered myself as to why I love Italy so much--in a word, Florence.
As I mentioned before, Rome was more an obligation than a desire, so goodbye duty, hello fire. Besides, looking at the map, most of what interests for this particular trip is fairly tightly wound--excepting Paris, which is non-negotiable. So here we go, with some small tinkering to be expected over the next year:

Fly into Florence for 5 days (with day trips).

Venice, 3 days with a night train to Salzburg.

Salzburg, 3 days (one day trip).

Train to Bern: flexible timetable--day-long-enjoy-the-scenery-and-think-about-where-we-are kind of repose.

Enjoy Bern for the day, train to Muerren (must be June 1st) or
Lauterbrunnen.

Muerren, 2 days, 2 nights.

Take Golden Pass leg from Interlaken to Lausanne; night train to Paris.

Paris, 4 days, depart the following morning.

My only concern is whether June 1st and 2nd will be too early for wildflowers up high. Unfortunately, the time table for shoulder season flights must be adhered to, so there's not a lot of wiggle room here. At most I can only bend a couple of days in either direction.

ira

Hi Huck,

Good for you.

May I suggest?

Fly into Paris
Fly www.myair.com from ORY to VCE
Train to Florence
Train to Bern - See Switzerland
Train to Salzburg
Fly home from Munich.

I think it might be easier than the route that you have chosen.

huckleberryFinn

Thanks ira, but I want to start southerly and definitely end in Paris, before going home. Now all I have to do is fine tune the nooks and crannies for a year or so.

ira

Have fun planning, Huck