Going Dutch: How can I meet Netherlanders halfway language-wise in May?
Apr 9th, 2012, 08:07 AM
#1
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Going Dutch: How can I meet Netherlanders halfway language-wise in May?
I've always managed to handle a little Italian, French, and Spanish when I've hit Italy, France, and Spain. But I don't know Dutch at all, though I know Gouda isn't Goo-da and Van Gogh isn't Van Go. I also know the Dutch know their English, but what Dutch do I need to know to show them sufficient respect?
Phonetic breakdowns of key words and phrases are most welcome.
Phonetic breakdowns of key words and phrases are most welcome.
Apr 9th, 2012, 08:25 AM
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I think you will find that the Dutch are the linguists of Europe. Their English is impeccable.
I personally found Dutch to be very difficult. The closest definition I got from locals, is that speaking Dutch is like speaking with chicken bones in your throat.
That said, there is still a strong animosity towards the Germans. Having been to Holland more than a dozen times, I've heard numerous open nasty comments about the Germans. If you can find the English version of Soldier of Orange DVD, it would explain a lot.
I personally found Dutch to be very difficult. The closest definition I got from locals, is that speaking Dutch is like speaking with chicken bones in your throat.
That said, there is still a strong animosity towards the Germans. Having been to Holland more than a dozen times, I've heard numerous open nasty comments about the Germans. If you can find the English version of Soldier of Orange DVD, it would explain a lot.
Apr 9th, 2012, 09:55 AM
#5
We learnt a few stock phrases, but honestly, they were hardly necessary as the Dutch expect that they will be conversing in english to tourists and they are right!
a story from a friend of ours, whose wife was dutch: he was over visiting her relatives and went out for a walk with the family, and fell into step with a young nephew, aged about 8. he was trying to work out what they could talk about that an 8 year old might understand, but before he could say anything, the child started chatting away in perfect english.
a story from a friend of ours, whose wife was dutch: he was over visiting her relatives and went out for a walk with the family, and fell into step with a young nephew, aged about 8. he was trying to work out what they could talk about that an 8 year old might understand, but before he could say anything, the child started chatting away in perfect english.
Apr 9th, 2012, 10:07 AM
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Not only are some of the sounds very different (e.g., the soft g that sounds like the German back-of-the-throat "ch" - Van Gogh is NOT Van Go, but more like Von H-o-h), but a lot are often elided, like the final syllable in words ending with "en". So what is spelt "goede morgen" often comes out sounding more like "hooya mor-ha".
"Dag", "Dank U weel" and "Tot ziens" will get you by in most cases.
"Dag", "Dank U weel" and "Tot ziens" will get you by in most cases.
Apr 9th, 2012, 10:13 AM
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>there is still a strong animosity towards the Germans
Pure and utter nonsense!!!!
Everybody loves to tease those Dutchies, since they don't speak proper German and always tug their shells behind them on the autobahn. If you want to speak Dutch, learn high German and try to talk like a baby. That's Dutch.
Pure and utter nonsense!!!!
Everybody loves to tease those Dutchies, since they don't speak proper German and always tug their shells behind them on the autobahn. If you want to speak Dutch, learn high German and try to talk like a baby. That's Dutch.
Apr 9th, 2012, 10:29 AM
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Don't worry too much about the g sound too much - once you hear it a few times you will understand it, e on the end of a word is sounded. oe =oo, oo= oh, ou=ow, ui= ow, ee = ay, ei = aye.
Most double letters lengthen the vowel, single vowels are normally short. Ch is like in loch. Ij is eye.
Goede Morgen, middag, avond, nacht = good morning, afternoon, evening, night. They are very punctual on those and will change from morning to afternoon at 12 noon.
Hallo, dag (daach), doei - dooee = hello, bye, bye.
Leuk - nice, smakelijk eten - bon apetit, mag ik een = may I have a bier, broodje, glas water (beer, sandwich, galss of water.
Dank u (formal) dank je (informal) thankyou. U is used for older people or people you don't know well (but not in shops etc), just as vous is used. Je, jin is like tu.
Alsjeblieft - said when given something or asking for something though you can use graag instead when asking, means please.
mooi (moy) means lovely, beautiful. Lekker means something tastes good.
That should get you started - but I can almost guarantee they will answer you in English no matter what. Even after nearly 30 years here, and being fluent in Dutch some still hear the English accent and start in English. This results in me speaking Dutch and them speaking English.
Most double letters lengthen the vowel, single vowels are normally short. Ch is like in loch. Ij is eye.
Goede Morgen, middag, avond, nacht = good morning, afternoon, evening, night. They are very punctual on those and will change from morning to afternoon at 12 noon.
Hallo, dag (daach), doei - dooee = hello, bye, bye.
Leuk - nice, smakelijk eten - bon apetit, mag ik een = may I have a bier, broodje, glas water (beer, sandwich, galss of water.
Dank u (formal) dank je (informal) thankyou. U is used for older people or people you don't know well (but not in shops etc), just as vous is used. Je, jin is like tu.
Alsjeblieft - said when given something or asking for something though you can use graag instead when asking, means please.
mooi (moy) means lovely, beautiful. Lekker means something tastes good.
That should get you started - but I can almost guarantee they will answer you in English no matter what. Even after nearly 30 years here, and being fluent in Dutch some still hear the English accent and start in English. This results in me speaking Dutch and them speaking English.
Apr 9th, 2012, 10:54 AM
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My sister learned Dutch (she also learned Czech, but that's another story). People in the Netherlands were _astonished_ that she knew Dutch and couldn't figure out why she would want to, since we have no Dutch ancestors.
She now has many Dutch friends, all of whom speak English, but I think she finds it useful to be able to read Dutch when visiting.
She now has many Dutch friends, all of whom speak English, but I think she finds it useful to be able to read Dutch when visiting.
Apr 9th, 2012, 04:04 PM
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Linguistically, I am told, Dutch is very closely related to English but I don't believe it (I'm not an expert of course).
The reality is that most Dutch children when they are about 5 or 6 years old are required to learn a second language and almost invariably is English (actually at one time I thought they were required to learn English as their second language)...then of course they learn French and German (next door neighbors).....so I guess that in visiting Holland, you will have little language difficulty. Almost every local you run into will be able to speak English and unlike certain other countries, they don't expect you to use their language. They're only too happy to use yours.
The reality is that most Dutch children when they are about 5 or 6 years old are required to learn a second language and almost invariably is English (actually at one time I thought they were required to learn English as their second language)...then of course they learn French and German (next door neighbors).....so I guess that in visiting Holland, you will have little language difficulty. Almost every local you run into will be able to speak English and unlike certain other countries, they don't expect you to use their language. They're only too happy to use yours.
Apr 9th, 2012, 04:25 PM
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My girlfriend (now wife) and I arrived in Amsterdam a few hundred years ago and headed straight to the bar. The female bartender came over and we commenced using our very best Dutch that we had practised for weeks to order two beers:
Tweedle dee bieren krnt.
No attendez. Tweedledum biersn kuntle.
No wait. Tweedledeedee bierres kant.
Finally she said ... "um, like ah, I haven't got all day here. Want a beer I'm guessin?"
Tweedle dee bieren krnt.
No attendez. Tweedledum biersn kuntle.
No wait. Tweedledeedee bierres kant.
Finally she said ... "um, like ah, I haven't got all day here. Want a beer I'm guessin?"
Apr 9th, 2012, 04:56 PM
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Yes, of course Dutch is related to English, about on a par as much as it's related to German. As a Germanic language, its structure is latinate. And it's vocabulary isn't wildly extensive. It's actually a fairly easy language, once you get past the pronunciation rules, which are easy. I've never studied it, and I certainly can't claim to speak it, but I can read it pretty well and get by in it if I have to. I DO think it's an unattractive language to listen to, more so than German.
Apr 10th, 2012, 02:36 AM
#15
cold - i am one of those boring people who insists in using my language skills when i am abroad, even when those who i am speaking to are obviously more proficient in english than i am in their language.
My exception is Holland, where i am prepared to give them best, and apart from the odd "dank u vells" just speak english.
My exception is Holland, where i am prepared to give them best, and apart from the odd "dank u vells" just speak english.
Apr 10th, 2012, 08:42 AM
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Seriously, this is not a concern - if you cannot find an English speaking Dutch, you're either not really looking or whoever you're talking to is taking the p---.
Dutch speak multiple languages as a norm because only the Dutch (and some Indonesians and perhaps some old folks in the Antilles) speak Dutch. This is why BigRuss's old man played golf in Mallorca with a Dutch ex-pat dentist who moved his practice out of the rain and into the sun and learned Spanish in middle age without problem.
And you can check out an interesting post on deconstructing languages from Tim Ferriss at fourhourblog.com.
Dutch speak multiple languages as a norm because only the Dutch (and some Indonesians and perhaps some old folks in the Antilles) speak Dutch. This is why BigRuss's old man played golf in Mallorca with a Dutch ex-pat dentist who moved his practice out of the rain and into the sun and learned Spanish in middle age without problem.
And you can check out an interesting post on deconstructing languages from Tim Ferriss at fourhourblog.com.
Apr 10th, 2012, 10:02 AM
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BigRuss you forget half of Belgium in your list.
There are actually a lot of Dutch people who do not speak English, or do not speak it well. There are also a lot who think they speak it well but in fact make an awful mess of it.
My DIL and her family do not speak much English - her mother not a word. Similarly my neighbours do not speak English. These are not old people, nor of a low educational level. Just as I had five years of French at school and promptly forgot it on leaving school, so they had English at school but have never kept it up or dropped it early.
There are actually a lot of Dutch people who do not speak English, or do not speak it well. There are also a lot who think they speak it well but in fact make an awful mess of it.
My DIL and her family do not speak much English - her mother not a word. Similarly my neighbours do not speak English. These are not old people, nor of a low educational level. Just as I had five years of French at school and promptly forgot it on leaving school, so they had English at school but have never kept it up or dropped it early.
