Germany - Austria Late Dec/Jan Itinerary Help!
Dec 15th, 2019 | 02:22 PM
#1
Original Poster
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Germany - Austria Late Dec/Jan Itinerary Help!
My husband and I are traveling to Germany and Austria from Dec 29 - Jan 16 (18 days) and are needing some help figuring out the best iterinary given our trip length and the time of year. We are traveling only by train/bus and are looking for a combo of nature & picturesque villages with urban cities with museums, music, good food, etc. Given the time of year we are also trying to be mindful of the best places to visit since it will be cold & perhaps some places will be closed or have modified hours.
See rough itinerary below, which we are open to modifying - the only places set in stone are landing in Frankfurt, Ramstein for 4 nights to visit friends, and Vienna to fly out. Other than that we’d love to hear thoughts on the destinations below and if there are other spots to consider. Since we’re traveling via public transportation we are also trying to consider train/bus duration and try to break up long stretches of travel if possible (see options for one night stops below). Thanks in advance for your help!
Land in Frankfurt & take train to Ramstein (Dec 29)
Ramstein (4 nights to stay with friends - set in stone)
Trier (Hop off train to explore and have lunch) and Cochem (1 night)
Option 1: Stay one night somewhere between Cochem and Baden Baden? (E.g. Rüdesheim am Rhein or somewhere else along the Rhine)
Baden Baden (1 night)
Option 2: Stay one night somewhere between Baden Baden and Munich? (E.g. Somewhere around Lake Constance)
Freiburg im Breisgau (1 night) - is this worth it?
Munich (3 nights)
Kitzbhuel (2 nights)
Salzburg (1 night)
Option 3: Stay one night somewhere between Salzburg and Vienna?
Vienna (4 nights) (Leave Jan 16)
See rough itinerary below, which we are open to modifying - the only places set in stone are landing in Frankfurt, Ramstein for 4 nights to visit friends, and Vienna to fly out. Other than that we’d love to hear thoughts on the destinations below and if there are other spots to consider. Since we’re traveling via public transportation we are also trying to consider train/bus duration and try to break up long stretches of travel if possible (see options for one night stops below). Thanks in advance for your help!
Land in Frankfurt & take train to Ramstein (Dec 29)
Ramstein (4 nights to stay with friends - set in stone)
Trier (Hop off train to explore and have lunch) and Cochem (1 night)
Option 1: Stay one night somewhere between Cochem and Baden Baden? (E.g. Rüdesheim am Rhein or somewhere else along the Rhine)
Baden Baden (1 night)
Option 2: Stay one night somewhere between Baden Baden and Munich? (E.g. Somewhere around Lake Constance)
Freiburg im Breisgau (1 night) - is this worth it?
Munich (3 nights)
Kitzbhuel (2 nights)
Salzburg (1 night)
Option 3: Stay one night somewhere between Salzburg and Vienna?
Vienna (4 nights) (Leave Jan 16)
Dec 15th, 2019 | 04:45 PM
#2
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Hi,
If one place that you cannot change is Ramstein, then I would concentrate on that area. Get a route planner and check the travel times between all the places you like to see. Some of the cities you have chosen are a little further apart. Like for instance, Vienna to Frankfurt is 7-8 hours by train. So that is a day lost.
If one place that you cannot change is Ramstein, then I would concentrate on that area. Get a route planner and check the travel times between all the places you like to see. Some of the cities you have chosen are a little further apart. Like for instance, Vienna to Frankfurt is 7-8 hours by train. So that is a day lost.
Dec 15th, 2019 | 09:24 PM
#3
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,502
Likes: 0
Hi rachelblindt,
I live in Garmisch, and I have spent 3 or 4 nights in Trier, Baden-Baden, Freiburg, and Lake Constance (Lindau and Überlingen), all by train.
My favorite is Lake Constance, but then I am a huge fan of Alpine lakes; to me there is nothing prettier than still blue waters backed by majestic mountains. The mountains ringing the Bodensee (German name of Lake Constance) are not all that huge, but still they are nice.
My second favorite was Freiburg. It's just the prettiest city, and the core of the old town feels like a small town. It has a historical walking tour you can pick up from the tourist office, and it's very, very easy to catch a local bus out to the countryside to walk between towns.
I also liked Baden-Baden, but be aware that the train station is something like 5 or 8 km outside of town. You have to catch a local bus from the station into town, so make sure what bus stop you'll need to get yo your hotel. There was construction in town when I visited, and I missed my stop, and it was a headache to arrive. The town is very pretty and gracious, with lots of parks and green spaces, some ancient Roman baths, and a beautiful old town. There's a nice walk along the river to a monastery, the name of which I can't remember right now.
I didn't much care for Trier, and I'm a huge fan of historical sites and Roman ruins. It felt a bit run down to me, with only the very touristy center kept attractive.
Hope you get the information you need to make this decision. You have quite a few 1- and 2- night stops, which I usually find counter-productive; to me, the amount of logistical hassle (checking into a hotel, unpacking, then packing up again and checking out) doesn't justify the few hours in the destination.
Have fun as you plan!
s
I live in Garmisch, and I have spent 3 or 4 nights in Trier, Baden-Baden, Freiburg, and Lake Constance (Lindau and Überlingen), all by train.
My favorite is Lake Constance, but then I am a huge fan of Alpine lakes; to me there is nothing prettier than still blue waters backed by majestic mountains. The mountains ringing the Bodensee (German name of Lake Constance) are not all that huge, but still they are nice.
My second favorite was Freiburg. It's just the prettiest city, and the core of the old town feels like a small town. It has a historical walking tour you can pick up from the tourist office, and it's very, very easy to catch a local bus out to the countryside to walk between towns.
I also liked Baden-Baden, but be aware that the train station is something like 5 or 8 km outside of town. You have to catch a local bus from the station into town, so make sure what bus stop you'll need to get yo your hotel. There was construction in town when I visited, and I missed my stop, and it was a headache to arrive. The town is very pretty and gracious, with lots of parks and green spaces, some ancient Roman baths, and a beautiful old town. There's a nice walk along the river to a monastery, the name of which I can't remember right now.
I didn't much care for Trier, and I'm a huge fan of historical sites and Roman ruins. It felt a bit run down to me, with only the very touristy center kept attractive.
Hope you get the information you need to make this decision. You have quite a few 1- and 2- night stops, which I usually find counter-productive; to me, the amount of logistical hassle (checking into a hotel, unpacking, then packing up again and checking out) doesn't justify the few hours in the destination.
Have fun as you plan!
s
Dec 16th, 2019 | 01:52 AM
#4
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 26
I agree that you have too many "1 night" proposals; by the time the logistics of your travel are completed you will have lost considerable sight-seeing time. Plus, the time of year you are traveling will have limited daylight hours, and it's no fun to wander around in the dark and cold, dragging luggage while in search of a hotel. Particularly I wouldn't stay somewhere between Salzburg and Vienna; the train ride between the two is under 3 hours.
You might find two night lodging in Kitzbühel will be either sparse or expensive, or both at this time of year because it's a popular ski village. Austrian school children will still be on holiday so many families take to the alps and remain there throughout the school holiday.
You might find two night lodging in Kitzbühel will be either sparse or expensive, or both at this time of year because it's a popular ski village. Austrian school children will still be on holiday so many families take to the alps and remain there throughout the school holiday.
Dec 16th, 2019 | 02:49 AM
#5
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Like so many itineraries by Americans in travel forums this is mostly clueless regarding destinations and terribly disjointed with all these pointless one night stays (you also have 10 nights between Ramstein and Vienna but only 9 planned for in your itinerary). At least you are having a place for NYE and aren't spending Christmas here but nevertheless this is a pretty terrible time for a visit. Not because some places will be closed or have reduced opening times or because of the cold but because the days are short. Why anyone visits Germany when the sun sets around 4pm instead of 9pm in the summer will always be beyond me. Germany in winter isn't some kind of romantic fairy tale with crisp blue air and white snow on the ground. It is certainly grey, occasionally rainy and mostly dreary. And this constant talk of villages is simply annoying. You don't want to see a village, they have a few hundred inhabitants and there is nothing to see in them whatsoever. We are talking about towns which got their town rights mostly in the medieval age.
As for your destinations Trier is great (god alone knows what swandav is talking about) and has some indoor attractions but it is obviously in the wrong direction and very isolated. Going then to Cochem is beyond pointless. While the Mosel is nice in summer that doesn't mean that it is the same in winter. Also since Cochem is the last major stop before the railway leaves the winding bends of the Mosel it has hilariously become an attraction for tourists who are so completely ignorant that they think that this crushingly mediocre town which neither has any old buildings nor especially pretty ones is somehow a great sight and a typical German old town. But the 19th century fake castle looks great on pictures and experts will show you one and the same angle of some half-timbered houses and if have no clue then you might think that is is a place worth visiting. A well placed WWII bomb hit the church and downgraded Cochem even more but that is nothing compared to Rüdesheim which is the worst destroyed small town in the whole state of Hesse and ironically again the place in the same state where throngs of dumb tourists flock to for a small town experience. While Rüdesheim was at least insofar lucky that some of its most valuable sights in the west of the town were preserved it is really another baffling choice - again especially in winter.
Next stop Baden-Baden, the favorite stop for people who have heard of the Black Forest have no clue what the Black Forest is about and pick a town at the edge of it. What exactly are you going to do in this 19th century spa town? Gambling? After all these questionable ideas you are then making your first sensible choice and fittingly are asking if it is worth it. But thankfully you assign only a night for Freiburg and ignore the towns in the Alsace. Instead you toy with the idea of Lake Constance with swandav leading you supportingly into the abyss of the probably foggiest area in the whole of Germany in winter.
I'll leave it here and would strongly suggest you rather think along your straight train travel plan to Vienna which means Mannheim, Stuttgart, Ulm, Augsburg, Munich, Salzburg. Cut down your fantasies of picturesque "villages" and leave them for a sunnier visit. Base in larger towns which have enough indoor attractions like sizeable museums in the case of bad weather and good day trip options if you are lucky and the sun comes out. Karlsruhe currently hosts two interesting exhibitions and has day trip options to Rastatt and Bruchsal. Stuttgart is soul crushingly ugly but again a good base town for Esslingen, Tübingen or Ludwigsburg and has strong museums. And so it goes on. Not a fan of equating Germany with Munich and Bavaria but since Munich is in your way it could arguably do with a night more (or two). That also goes for Vienna itself.
As for your destinations Trier is great (god alone knows what swandav is talking about) and has some indoor attractions but it is obviously in the wrong direction and very isolated. Going then to Cochem is beyond pointless. While the Mosel is nice in summer that doesn't mean that it is the same in winter. Also since Cochem is the last major stop before the railway leaves the winding bends of the Mosel it has hilariously become an attraction for tourists who are so completely ignorant that they think that this crushingly mediocre town which neither has any old buildings nor especially pretty ones is somehow a great sight and a typical German old town. But the 19th century fake castle looks great on pictures and experts will show you one and the same angle of some half-timbered houses and if have no clue then you might think that is is a place worth visiting. A well placed WWII bomb hit the church and downgraded Cochem even more but that is nothing compared to Rüdesheim which is the worst destroyed small town in the whole state of Hesse and ironically again the place in the same state where throngs of dumb tourists flock to for a small town experience. While Rüdesheim was at least insofar lucky that some of its most valuable sights in the west of the town were preserved it is really another baffling choice - again especially in winter.
Next stop Baden-Baden, the favorite stop for people who have heard of the Black Forest have no clue what the Black Forest is about and pick a town at the edge of it. What exactly are you going to do in this 19th century spa town? Gambling? After all these questionable ideas you are then making your first sensible choice and fittingly are asking if it is worth it. But thankfully you assign only a night for Freiburg and ignore the towns in the Alsace. Instead you toy with the idea of Lake Constance with swandav leading you supportingly into the abyss of the probably foggiest area in the whole of Germany in winter.
I'll leave it here and would strongly suggest you rather think along your straight train travel plan to Vienna which means Mannheim, Stuttgart, Ulm, Augsburg, Munich, Salzburg. Cut down your fantasies of picturesque "villages" and leave them for a sunnier visit. Base in larger towns which have enough indoor attractions like sizeable museums in the case of bad weather and good day trip options if you are lucky and the sun comes out. Karlsruhe currently hosts two interesting exhibitions and has day trip options to Rastatt and Bruchsal. Stuttgart is soul crushingly ugly but again a good base town for Esslingen, Tübingen or Ludwigsburg and has strong museums. And so it goes on. Not a fan of equating Germany with Munich and Bavaria but since Munich is in your way it could arguably do with a night more (or two). That also goes for Vienna itself.
Dec 16th, 2019 | 05:44 AM
#6
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,238
Likes: 0
Lubitsch, you should see some of the US itineraries that Europeans post—I assure you, Americans aren’t unique in that sense.
and some people are coming from places where it also goes dark at 4. Believe it or not, Germany is still enjoyable in the cold and dark.
OP—Baden Baden’s town center (at least before Christmas) is closed to vehicles during certain hours, so the bus stops are a little altered, and the taxis don’t come straight to the hotel—not a huge deal but a hassle you need to be aware of.
I’ve nothing against one night stops, but I think you need to seriously consider how much travel time you really want to do. I agree that it really isn’t fun to find your hotel in the dark and cold. And I think you might want to stay multiple nights in locations simply because at this time of year crowds are an issue. Restaurant reservations are a good idea.
Think less scenery and more attractions—what do you really want to see. I went to Baden Baden for the spas, so i had a specific reason for going there. More to do than gambling, but I wouldn’t choose it just because. It might help if you shared your reasons for your stops—the one between Salzburg and Vienna makes no sense but maybe you really have a reason.
if you want to ski, that’s another issue. Because that’s best in daylight, and that would take a whole day. So it would impact your traveling schedule.
another thing is that in the smaller places, connections might be less frequent. So what looks like a quick trip might not be a quick trip, because the departure time doesn’t work with your plans.
and some people are coming from places where it also goes dark at 4. Believe it or not, Germany is still enjoyable in the cold and dark.
OP—Baden Baden’s town center (at least before Christmas) is closed to vehicles during certain hours, so the bus stops are a little altered, and the taxis don’t come straight to the hotel—not a huge deal but a hassle you need to be aware of.
I’ve nothing against one night stops, but I think you need to seriously consider how much travel time you really want to do. I agree that it really isn’t fun to find your hotel in the dark and cold. And I think you might want to stay multiple nights in locations simply because at this time of year crowds are an issue. Restaurant reservations are a good idea.
Think less scenery and more attractions—what do you really want to see. I went to Baden Baden for the spas, so i had a specific reason for going there. More to do than gambling, but I wouldn’t choose it just because. It might help if you shared your reasons for your stops—the one between Salzburg and Vienna makes no sense but maybe you really have a reason.
if you want to ski, that’s another issue. Because that’s best in daylight, and that would take a whole day. So it would impact your traveling schedule.
another thing is that in the smaller places, connections might be less frequent. So what looks like a quick trip might not be a quick trip, because the departure time doesn’t work with your plans.
Trending Topics
Dec 17th, 2019 | 08:50 PM
#8
Original Poster
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Thanks, all for the advice! Much, much appreciated. We’ve come up with an updated itinerary which has less short visits and is along more frequently tracked train routes (see below). We’ve also tried to focus more on larger cities with options to take day trips. We still have a few more questions and would love to hear everyone’s thoughts.
We’re trying to fit in a day of skiing as well as time at a thermal spa & are trying to figure out where to fit it in. We are not expert skiers, so we’d be looking for a ski resort that is good for beginners. We’ve added a few nights in Heidelberg to help break up the train ride from Ramstein to Munich, but are opening to skipping this to make time for a day of skiing and thermal spa (doesn’t have to be the same day/ location). However, if it’s possible to reach these activities as day trips from any of our stops, that’d be ideal (for example, from Salzburg, or is there another stop either in Germany or Austria along our route that makes sense to stop to fit these in?)
Frankfurt to Ramstein (4 nights with friends); day trip to Trier one of the days
Heidelberg (3 nights as base for day trips)
Munich (3 nights)
Salzburg (4 nights as base for day trips, with skiing and thermal spa as top choices, but these may not be realistic day trips from Salzburg?)
Vienna (4 night)
We’re trying to fit in a day of skiing as well as time at a thermal spa & are trying to figure out where to fit it in. We are not expert skiers, so we’d be looking for a ski resort that is good for beginners. We’ve added a few nights in Heidelberg to help break up the train ride from Ramstein to Munich, but are opening to skipping this to make time for a day of skiing and thermal spa (doesn’t have to be the same day/ location). However, if it’s possible to reach these activities as day trips from any of our stops, that’d be ideal (for example, from Salzburg, or is there another stop either in Germany or Austria along our route that makes sense to stop to fit these in?)
Frankfurt to Ramstein (4 nights with friends); day trip to Trier one of the days
Heidelberg (3 nights as base for day trips)
Munich (3 nights)
Salzburg (4 nights as base for day trips, with skiing and thermal spa as top choices, but these may not be realistic day trips from Salzburg?)
Vienna (4 night)
Dec 17th, 2019 | 09:08 PM
#9
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,502
Likes: 0
Hi again,
You can ski in the mountains around Garmisch, about 1h20 from Munich. In fact, so many people do this that there is a Garmisch Ski Ticket that includes the ski pass and transport from Munich:
https://zugspitze.de/en/winter/skiar...her-ski-ticket
I don't know anything about skiing from Salzburg, and it might be closer. But if you decide to do this from Munich, I'd spend an extra night in Munich.
Have fun!
s
You can ski in the mountains around Garmisch, about 1h20 from Munich. In fact, so many people do this that there is a Garmisch Ski Ticket that includes the ski pass and transport from Munich:
https://zugspitze.de/en/winter/skiar...her-ski-ticket
I don't know anything about skiing from Salzburg, and it might be closer. But if you decide to do this from Munich, I'd spend an extra night in Munich.
Have fun!
s
Dec 18th, 2019 | 12:51 AM
#10
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
I would suggest to stay a bit longer on some places and skip others. Salzburg is very nice to visit, as is Vienna, but the two are similar in many ways, only that Vienna is much larger and much more convenient for public transport
Dec 18th, 2019 | 12:17 PM
#11
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
If you are going to be in Ramstein it is not far to the slopes around Oberstdorf (in the Allgäu). There are a few different resorts there that are suitable for a range of abilities and it is all accessible with a car, or train directly to Oberstdorf and catch local transport to your town. I have been to MIttelberg which is deeper into the mountains and were able to drive in and out with our car. Interestingly it is in Austria, but it is only accessible from Germany, the valley does not link up with the rest of Austria. The valley is called the Kleinwalsertal.
For reference: https://www.skiresort.info/ski-resor...rn-oberstdorf/
Lavandula
For reference: https://www.skiresort.info/ski-resor...rn-oberstdorf/
Lavandula
Dec 19th, 2019 | 12:54 AM
#16
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
And I might add that Oberstdorf is a lot closer than any of the ski resorts in Austria, which is what I was thinking of, since she talk about driving into Austria. I am not sending the OP on some wild goose chase, she can google the resorts and get them up on the map so she can see for herself.
Eigentlich hätte ich wenig Grund, zurückzukommen, danke Quokka und Lubitsch.
Lavandula
Eigentlich hätte ich wenig Grund, zurückzukommen, danke Quokka und Lubitsch.
Lavandula
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
introvertadela
Europe
6
May 18th, 2018 05:55 AM
michele
Africa & the Middle East
7
Apr 6th, 2001 06:46 AM
