Full wine by 4th grade
Sep 9th, 2006, 10:25 PM
#41
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har har no, Neo, you will be called an alcoholic.
This is really interesting! I just came off a week with a psycho co-worker who only sees things in "black and white." no other person's perspective is allowed--to do or think any different from her is WRONG and stupid, etc etc. I wonder what it's like to go through life like that.
Well....since I'm here I will weigh in. My dad used to come home from work and unwind with a beer--just one. I often would sit with him, and he would let me have a sip. When I was a kid, I liked that taste of beer and the carbonation. But as I got older, for some reason I gradually lost the enjoyment of the taste. As an adult, I don't drink beer at all (and no soda--don't like carbonation anymore either). Sooooo I guess I'm saying that I'm living proof that allowing a kid to drink/sip alcohol will not make them want to drink it as an adult!
This is really interesting! I just came off a week with a psycho co-worker who only sees things in "black and white." no other person's perspective is allowed--to do or think any different from her is WRONG and stupid, etc etc. I wonder what it's like to go through life like that.
Well....since I'm here I will weigh in. My dad used to come home from work and unwind with a beer--just one. I often would sit with him, and he would let me have a sip. When I was a kid, I liked that taste of beer and the carbonation. But as I got older, for some reason I gradually lost the enjoyment of the taste. As an adult, I don't drink beer at all (and no soda--don't like carbonation anymore either). Sooooo I guess I'm saying that I'm living proof that allowing a kid to drink/sip alcohol will not make them want to drink it as an adult!
Sep 9th, 2006, 10:27 PM
#42
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Author: kerouac
Date: 08/21/2006, 04:15 pm
Am I the only person willing to admit that it is no big deal to wear damp jeans the next morning after washing them? They dry very quickly from your body heat.
In my opinion, "not normal".
Sep 9th, 2006, 10:58 PM
#44
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Just to add a drop of oil to these troubled waters. In the interests of subsequently setting light to it of course.
I speak five or so languages too. That includes English, which is my native tongue.
Like the overwhelming majority of native English speakers, I haven't the faintest idea how old you have to be to be in "fourth grade", whatever that is.
Like any decent European, I'm perfecly aware of how old you probably are if you're in quatrieme, and my assumption would be that Americans would number their education years similarly. It appears from this thread that they don't.
But the assumption that fluency in English implies familiarity with the scholastic mores of a small minority of the world's English-speakers is bizarre.
And seriously offensive to most of us.
I speak five or so languages too. That includes English, which is my native tongue.
Like the overwhelming majority of native English speakers, I haven't the faintest idea how old you have to be to be in "fourth grade", whatever that is.
Like any decent European, I'm perfecly aware of how old you probably are if you're in quatrieme, and my assumption would be that Americans would number their education years similarly. It appears from this thread that they don't.
But the assumption that fluency in English implies familiarity with the scholastic mores of a small minority of the world's English-speakers is bizarre.
And seriously offensive to most of us.
Sep 10th, 2006, 01:03 AM
#48
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I think flanneruk has a big point in the 'conflict'
<<<Like the overwhelming majority of native English speakers, I haven't the faintest idea how old you have to be to be in "fourth grade", whatever that is.>>>
Not only the native english speakers, i too understood a 4th year school kid : 8 or 9 years old in the french system, and i can swear that full wine on a 8/9 yo is something shocking for me too (french - 60's kid)
<<<Like the overwhelming majority of native English speakers, I haven't the faintest idea how old you have to be to be in "fourth grade", whatever that is.>>>
Not only the native english speakers, i too understood a 4th year school kid : 8 or 9 years old in the french system, and i can swear that full wine on a 8/9 yo is something shocking for me too (french - 60's kid)
Sep 10th, 2006, 01:56 AM
#49
Hey, guess what? I was born in Mississippi but I grew up in France in 1954-1956, 1964-1967 and I have been living here non stop since 1973. I am sorry that the rest of you know better than I about life in France. I must be a retard.
As most children around me, I had extremely watered down wine (with sugar!) starting at around age 7 -- not at every meal, because I didn't want it all the time. Most children at that time in France were drinking water with their meals, except on Sundays. In any case, drinking pure wine at the age of 9 would have been completely irresponsible from a pediatric standpoint. Bravo for those who survived. Plenty did not.
As most children around me, I had extremely watered down wine (with sugar!) starting at around age 7 -- not at every meal, because I didn't want it all the time. Most children at that time in France were drinking water with their meals, except on Sundays. In any case, drinking pure wine at the age of 9 would have been completely irresponsible from a pediatric standpoint. Bravo for those who survived. Plenty did not.
Sep 10th, 2006, 02:21 AM
#50
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Handmaiden, "where in the Lehigh Valley are you from? Allentown? Quakertown?"
No, no, not one of those big cities ;-) Try Lower Milford township, which still has no towns as all, just the villages of Limeport and Hosensack and only one policeman (who works part-time). LM's sole claim to fame is that it's where the best-selling author of the ultimate "bad dog" book, Marly & Me, lives.
Getting back to kids and what they drink, we always drank milk "for healthy teeth and bones." That was the mantra drummed into every kid almost every day: drink your milk. you need it for healthy teeth and bones.
I don't think it's bad that kids are exposed to very moderate use of alchohol while young. As long as they're also taught (by example) that alchohol isn't necessary to having a good time.
But I do worry when I see all these kids and young teen-agers (girls especially) having soda after soda and virtually *no* milk or any other calcium-rich food. They've got a serious date with osteoporosis in their future.
No, no, not one of those big cities ;-) Try Lower Milford township, which still has no towns as all, just the villages of Limeport and Hosensack and only one policeman (who works part-time). LM's sole claim to fame is that it's where the best-selling author of the ultimate "bad dog" book, Marly & Me, lives.
Getting back to kids and what they drink, we always drank milk "for healthy teeth and bones." That was the mantra drummed into every kid almost every day: drink your milk. you need it for healthy teeth and bones.
I don't think it's bad that kids are exposed to very moderate use of alchohol while young. As long as they're also taught (by example) that alchohol isn't necessary to having a good time.
But I do worry when I see all these kids and young teen-agers (girls especially) having soda after soda and virtually *no* milk or any other calcium-rich food. They've got a serious date with osteoporosis in their future.
Sep 10th, 2006, 02:42 AM
#51
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Information to avoid confusion on one point.
France : 2-3 yrs old Maternelle (petite section) US : 2-3 yrs old Preschool (Daycare)
F: 3-4 yrs old Maternelle (petite section) US: 3-4 yrs old Preschool (Daycare)
F: 4-5 yrs old Maternelle (moyenne section) US: 4-5 yrs old Preschool
F: 5-6 yrs old Maternelle (grande section) US: 5-6 yrs old Kindergarten
Ecole primaire / Elementary school
F: 6-7 yrs old Onzième (CP) US: 6-7 yrs old 1st grade
F: 7-8 yrs old Dixième (CE1) US: 7-8 yrs old 2nd grade
F: 8-9 yrs old Neuvième (CE2) US: 8-9 yrs old 3rd grade
F: 9-10 yrs old Huitième (CM1) US: 9-10 yrs old 4th grade
F: 10-11 yrs old Septième (CM2) US: 10-11 yrs old 5th grade
Collège / Junior High School
F: 11-12 yrs old Sizième US: 11-12 yrs old 6th grade
F: 12-13 yrs old Cinquième US: 12-13 yrs old 7th grade
F: 13-14 yrs old Quatrième US: 13-14 yrs old 8th grade
F: 14-15 yrs old Troisième US: 14-15 yrs old 9th grade
High school / Lycée
F: 15-16 yrs old Seconde US: 15-16 yrs old 10th grade
F: 16-17 yrs old Première US: 16-17 yrs old 11th grade
F: 17-18 yrs old Terminale US: 17-18 yrs old 12th grade
France : 2-3 yrs old Maternelle (petite section) US : 2-3 yrs old Preschool (Daycare)
F: 3-4 yrs old Maternelle (petite section) US: 3-4 yrs old Preschool (Daycare)
F: 4-5 yrs old Maternelle (moyenne section) US: 4-5 yrs old Preschool
F: 5-6 yrs old Maternelle (grande section) US: 5-6 yrs old Kindergarten
Ecole primaire / Elementary school
F: 6-7 yrs old Onzième (CP) US: 6-7 yrs old 1st grade
F: 7-8 yrs old Dixième (CE1) US: 7-8 yrs old 2nd grade
F: 8-9 yrs old Neuvième (CE2) US: 8-9 yrs old 3rd grade
F: 9-10 yrs old Huitième (CM1) US: 9-10 yrs old 4th grade
F: 10-11 yrs old Septième (CM2) US: 10-11 yrs old 5th grade
Collège / Junior High School
F: 11-12 yrs old Sizième US: 11-12 yrs old 6th grade
F: 12-13 yrs old Cinquième US: 12-13 yrs old 7th grade
F: 13-14 yrs old Quatrième US: 13-14 yrs old 8th grade
F: 14-15 yrs old Troisième US: 14-15 yrs old 9th grade
High school / Lycée
F: 15-16 yrs old Seconde US: 15-16 yrs old 10th grade
F: 16-17 yrs old Première US: 16-17 yrs old 11th grade
F: 17-18 yrs old Terminale US: 17-18 yrs old 12th grade
Sep 10th, 2006, 03:16 AM
#53
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The prevailing opinion here seems to be that France's (supposedly) more relaxed attitudes, 'the European way' [sic] towards drinking prevents problems associated with alcohol. To what extent is this true?
It does seem to be the case that when people believe that alcohol excuses certain behaviours, they feel freer to indulge in those behaviours. But of course, if someone doesn't exercise self control, it doesn't mean that they CAN'T exercise self control. Alcohol is not an excuse for obnoxious, much less violent behaviour.
I'll accept the anecdotes that fewer French students behave obnoxiously when drunk, which suggests that the French have succeeded at least in this arena. However, notwithstanding, there does seem to be a lot of marital violence associated with alcohol consumption in France which suggests the French culture isn't entirely free of bad beliefs about alcohol. Nor does French culture protect France against the occurrence of alcoholism per se. See: http://tinyurl.com/e9euo
Meanwhile, cultural beliefs - American or French - about alcohol consumption don't explain the effect of alcohol consumption by a pregnant mother on the developing foetus, for example. And a 'good' cultural environment won't ensure your reflexes when driving are any better, and France, just as in the US and Britain, has the roadside corpses to prove it.
Maybe restrictions don't work as well as we'd like. But that doesn't mean that removing them will somehow solve the problem they were meant to address.
It does seem to be the case that when people believe that alcohol excuses certain behaviours, they feel freer to indulge in those behaviours. But of course, if someone doesn't exercise self control, it doesn't mean that they CAN'T exercise self control. Alcohol is not an excuse for obnoxious, much less violent behaviour.
I'll accept the anecdotes that fewer French students behave obnoxiously when drunk, which suggests that the French have succeeded at least in this arena. However, notwithstanding, there does seem to be a lot of marital violence associated with alcohol consumption in France which suggests the French culture isn't entirely free of bad beliefs about alcohol. Nor does French culture protect France against the occurrence of alcoholism per se. See: http://tinyurl.com/e9euo
Meanwhile, cultural beliefs - American or French - about alcohol consumption don't explain the effect of alcohol consumption by a pregnant mother on the developing foetus, for example. And a 'good' cultural environment won't ensure your reflexes when driving are any better, and France, just as in the US and Britain, has the roadside corpses to prove it.
Maybe restrictions don't work as well as we'd like. But that doesn't mean that removing them will somehow solve the problem they were meant to address.
Sep 10th, 2006, 03:24 AM
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***
Author: LoveItaly
Date: 09/10/2006, 02:15 am
Oh starrsville and Neo I have had two or three posters that from time to time challenge everything I say and indicate I am a liar. It used to upset me but now I just chuckle about it and wonder what in heavens name is their problem. As you know I have had the same screen name since I originally posted on Fodors..whenever that was, sometime after 9-11-01 I believe. I always say I have only been to Italy except for a short trip into Switzerland as far as Europe is concerned. I have said time and time again I was born and raised in the SF/Bay Area. That my mother's maternal side of the family came to SF shortly after the Civil War. But in the past I have been accused of never having been in SF, of knowing nothing about Italy etc etc.
***
Are you sure those accusations against you and your posts don't bother you? You seem to always bring it up at every unrelated posts and opportunities.
You're funny.
From
One of the challengers.
Author: LoveItaly
Date: 09/10/2006, 02:15 am
Oh starrsville and Neo I have had two or three posters that from time to time challenge everything I say and indicate I am a liar. It used to upset me but now I just chuckle about it and wonder what in heavens name is their problem. As you know I have had the same screen name since I originally posted on Fodors..whenever that was, sometime after 9-11-01 I believe. I always say I have only been to Italy except for a short trip into Switzerland as far as Europe is concerned. I have said time and time again I was born and raised in the SF/Bay Area. That my mother's maternal side of the family came to SF shortly after the Civil War. But in the past I have been accused of never having been in SF, of knowing nothing about Italy etc etc.
***
Are you sure those accusations against you and your posts don't bother you? You seem to always bring it up at every unrelated posts and opportunities.
You're funny.
From
One of the challengers.
Sep 10th, 2006, 03:46 AM
#56
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"Author: kerouac
Date: 09/10/2006, 05:56 am
Hey, guess what? I was born in Mississippi....I must be a retard...."
May be accurate. Fairly certain starrsville will agree with that statement.
I've got a better idea: If you think people of a certain age should NOT have wine, don't give it to them. If you think it is OK for people of a certain age to have wine, have at it. Matter of choice, ours, not yours!
MvK
Date: 09/10/2006, 05:56 am
Hey, guess what? I was born in Mississippi....I must be a retard...."
May be accurate. Fairly certain starrsville will agree with that statement.
I've got a better idea: If you think people of a certain age should NOT have wine, don't give it to them. If you think it is OK for people of a certain age to have wine, have at it. Matter of choice, ours, not yours!
MvK
Sep 10th, 2006, 05:22 AM
#58
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FlannerUK's post underscores the importance of tuning into the Simpsons, which is shown at least once a day in virtually every country in Europe (there are at least seven episodes on British TV today). You don't have to watch more than an episode or two to know that Bart Simpson is in the fourth grade. Ahh, the educational power of television. 
Sep 10th, 2006, 05:41 AM
#59
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LOL, BTilke.How strange to think that a man who has raised two children in the US does not understand the concept of American 4th grade. If you were offended, my apologies flanneruk. I can assure you that my BIL is very familiar with the American grade system.
Sep 10th, 2006, 06:33 AM
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In defense of the God Bacchus..drinking wine in moderation is very good for your digestion..
I admit, however that being exposed to wine at a young age does not prevent an individual to become an alcoholic.
I wonder how many people realized that coca cola is used to clean car's engine..
I admit, however that being exposed to wine at a young age does not prevent an individual to become an alcoholic.
I wonder how many people realized that coca cola is used to clean car's engine..
