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France has reimposed 'border controls'

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France has reimposed 'border controls'

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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 10:17 AM
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France has reimposed 'border controls'

Here is an article from BBC dated "1 hour ago" on Google.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4680163.stm

"...France has reimposed border controls with its European Union neighbours in response to the threat of attacks after the London bombings. The move activates a safety clause of the Schengen open-border agreement between many EU countries....Following the move by France, Italy's Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu announced that his country would be reinforcing its old border zones with Austria and Slovenia, Efe reports...."
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 10:21 AM
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Haven't read the article, but wouldn't this mean that some flights have to be rerouted to a different terminal? (Intra Schengen doesn't require passport control.)
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 10:58 AM
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I was surprised that when I checked at my hotel in Nice and later on in Paris,nobody at the desk asked me for my passport...Actually I was quite perplexed that they could be so careless about it.
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 11:01 AM
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I've seen several border checks on French trains in recent years in spite of Schengen accords - mainly police searching young travelers bags looking for illegal drugs on trains from Amsterdam to France and from the Swiss border - even saw a bust just after the train left Basel for Colmar. So border controls never were completely abolished.
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 11:08 AM
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I know what you mean PalQ. Last year we sat on the stopped train at the border between San Remo and Menton for nearly an hour with border patrol doing a major check. I wondered if that was because of some specific incident or a regular thing. I've gone through there before and don't remember stopping or anything.
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 11:35 AM
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We live in a new world now, and we'd better get used to more checks and invasions of privacy. Not that I enjoy it, but we need to face the new reality, and if being systematically checked means that maybe some horrendous act may be prevented, I'll go for it!
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 02:40 PM
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Big "if" IMO and unfortunately...but it does seem to make some folks feel safer..until another incident occurs.
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 03:38 PM
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yes, deplaning would then mean going through passport control again.
like in the old days.

frankly, i don't know how europe can afford not to have the borders back with all that is going on,... between mafia, illegal immigrants, and terrorists.
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 04:40 PM
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It won't affect me, a Caucasian with an American passport - i'm sure they aren't looking for my type, but i pity Americans or other nationalities of Arab or Pakistani or Indian - Moslem look as they will constantly be searched - and maybe for good reason, i'm not arguing. But except unless my train is held up at the border a few more minutes, impact on me is nil - in fact it may be good if they really catch some terrorists. French cops have always hassled Moslem French residents - often see them inspecting papers in Paris, especially at Gare du Nord.
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 05:44 PM
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My experience is that the security people seem to be a little misdirected in their "random" selection of people to check. Recently we--an American family consisting of two parents traveling with their children (and quite obviously NOT of Muslim or Middle eastern descent) -- were asked by Heathrow airport security personnel if we "had time" to be selected for a luggage search (of our checked bags) --our reward for being at the airport early as requested by the airline. No problem, we were happy to cooperate but suppose an actual terrorist is running late for the plane? Can he refuse the security check if he doesn't "have time"? A little weird, it seemed at the time. Later, we really began to question their "random" security checks when the whole family was again subjected to time consuming checks of our carrry on luggage and the pat down body checks. Perhaps we should have been comforted or amused except that it was clear that we were being used to boost the quota #s for checks and counteract any "profiling" concerns. If they are going to check all passengers, by all means do not exclude American moms and dads with traveling their children. Otherwise, maybe a little judgment is in order...lest the terrorist slip through while my 9 year old's undies are being pawed through.
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 06:01 PM
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Targeting certain religious or ethnic groups is considered profiling. We all must live in this age and I often wonder if any of the security checks make a difference, other then to make people feel more secure and that countries are doing their jobs in protecting its citizens. We had flown into Paris and found security normal. We flew out after the London bombings and found security to be like that of NYC after 9/11. At a cafe, we were somewhat concerned when it seemed the entire French Air Force flew over us, but noting none of the French were alarmed, ignored it. We were also held at the airport due to a baggage scare. Police presence was obvious and unavoidable. Crazy and unfortunate times for the world.
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 06:05 PM
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<<and we'd better get used to more checks and invasions of privacy.>>

Okay, I'll agree that we are living i a different world, but as a visitor in a foreign country, what rights to privacy are being violated? Would you deny them the rights to protect themselves?
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 06:56 PM
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It's hard to know whether a request as to whether you had time was serious or just the person's attempt to be polite. Some requests made passively like that are just an attempt to be polite. I prefer someone being straightforward rather than mincing words. For example, I was asked by a security guard at a museum where I live (Wash DC which has had some security in the major museums since 9/11) if "I needed help" when I was looking for a particular room where I had a class in the Smithsonian. I replied, no, thank you, as I knew where I was going and just was searching for the room number. Whereupon the guard got nasty and practically tackled me for some security search, because they really meant I had to stop for a search but thought just asking me if I needed help was appropriate. Things like that irritate me, if it was a mandatory search, they should have said so, instead of treating me like a criminal because I answered their question that they had posed.

I think people have to get over the idea that children, old people, etc., should be immune to searches, as that is exactly what terrorists prefer, to plant stuff on people that are supposedly never going to be suspected.
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Old Jul 13th, 2005 | 10:54 PM
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Anyone who thinks middle-aged white people should be exempt from searches should familiarise themselves with the case of Nezar Hindawi, who in 1986, having impregnated his Irish girl friend, planted bombs on her on the assumption that Heathrow security wouldn't search a pregnant wee colleen.

Heathrow security did. And a jumboload of passengers are alive as a result.
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Old Jul 14th, 2005 | 12:18 AM
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I remember that case. They were supposed to travel together to Israel to get married, at the last minute he changed his itinerary, but told her to travel ahead. He had bought her new luggage for the trip, her carry-on had a double bottom. El-Al had their own security check, and a very vigilant guard discovered the double bottom, which contained the bomb. She was totally innocent, poor girl, what do you tell your child about the father in a case like that?
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Old Jul 14th, 2005 | 12:54 AM
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A couple of points...

About 2 weeks ago on a train from Frankfurt to Paris, French border control did get on the train and questioned one pair of teen age girls and asked to see their passports. Didn't ask anybody else.....

The checks at Heathrow do seem to be random...like every 10th or 15th or whatever so it was probably just a coincidence that the poster was asked for a random check of baggage at check in and then at the gate....interestingly enough it seems as if only flights to either the United States or Israel have the random checks at the gate. I know this past Sunday I was flying out of terminal 3 on Virgin from Heathrow to NY and noted flights to Canada at the two nearest gates and none of this yet for the NY flight, they held the pax in a separate boarding area and then created a bottleneck of letting people through 1 by 1 and as the 4 random checkers finished a gentleman picked the next victim...I missed out.

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Old Jul 14th, 2005 | 07:00 AM
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Re the Heathrow search: standard phraseology over here is usually along the lines of "would you mind ..." or "Do you have the time to ..." It's a Brit thing, and really means "Come with me" or "You are about to have your luggage checked"
It is not, and should not ever be taken as a question, it's just HM Customs/Police trying not to be in your face about doing their job. Far preferable, IMO, to some of the other ways I've seen it done.
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Old Jul 14th, 2005 | 09:42 AM
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So much for European UNION! It was nice while it lasted. A logical extension of the French action- Vermont should probably set up border controls to control access of those bad people from New York or Massachusetts.
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Old Jul 14th, 2005 | 03:16 PM
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>Targeting certain religious or ethnic groups is considered profiling.

When the facts show that almost all of the perps fit a particular profile, one would be mad to not consider that those who fit the profile have a higher probability of being perps than those who don't.


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