mjs

I have learned over many years of traveling that simplicity works best. Weather in the alps in June can also be problematic

StuDudley

When we stayed near Chamonix for a week in early July, we could not see Mt Blanc 50% of the time because of clouds. We had a straight-on shot of it from our gite. I think it even snowed a bit, and rained one day quite hard. My wife took a beautiful picture of a rainbow.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

I hope the OP is taking notes!!!

The same day it was raining in the valley were we stayed, it was snowing up on the high mountain lifts. The next day was beautiful - but cold. We took the gondola up on the farthest east lift. On the final platform of the lift, all the handrails & footpaths had about 3-4 inches of snow. And a thermometer there indicated that the temps were minus 8C. I think that's 20F. My wife wore a shirt under a sweater and under a double insulated jacket. I wore something similar. Even with the winter cloths on, by wife had hypothermia and was uncontrollable shaking for several hours (too many years living in California). We have pictures of the thermometer & us in winter clothing. This was about July 13 - approx 3 weeks before the OP will be there. About 3 days after we departed, the Tour de France went by our gite. It rained hard for the entire race that day.

Many wise contributors to this thread have advised the OP & his gang of 7 to travel light. They can't, if they plan to visit the Mont Blanc area and take some of the fantastic lifts up to mountain vantage spots. Packing for Mt Blanc & the Bay of Naples/Amalfi Coast involves summer & winter clothes. Even if it turns out you don't need them.

Stu Dudley

neckervd

Weather is always unpredictable in the Alps.
There is no easy way to go from Chamonix or Annecy to Sorrento..

Alternatives:
Chamonix dp 9.00 - Flixbus - Lampugnano ar 12.50 -metro - Milano C dp 15.15 - Italo - Napoli C ar 19.53, dp 20.07 - Sorrento ar 21.17
Chamonix dp 7.15 - Bus SAT - GVA ar 9.00, dp 11.40 - ITA - FCO ar 13.10, dp 14.38 - Termini - Napoli C ar 16.33, dp 17.07 - Sorrento ar 18.17
Chamonix dp 16.20 - Flixbus - Aosta ar 17.55, dp 18.40 - Trenitalia - Torino ar 20.35, dp 21.55 - overnight train with sleeping cars - Napoli C ar 8.17, dp 8.40 - sorrento ar 9.53
This overnight train is not yet sheduled for next year

StuDudley

All trips consuming over 14 hours hotel-to-hotel. Miss a connection - the trip may consume 2 days (hope "last minute" accommodations can be found for 7 people). What happens if the next flight or train is fully booked (plane only has 5 seats available??). What is plan B or C. I hope the OP is paying attention this.

"Man hears what he want's to hear and disregards the rest"
The Boxer
by Paul Simon

Stu Dudley

neckervd

StuDudley is riht, of course!
The initial plan with a long stop over at Florence was much better.
If the OP wants to bypass Tuscany, i would spend 1 night at Turin or Milan. Tons of trains go from there to Napes all along the day.

But i still find that the best solution would be to fly from Paris to Naples, to backtrack from there by train up to Florence, Milan or Turin, to reach Chamonix a day later.and to fly home from GVA.

craigvattiat2624

You guys are something else! I got waaaaaaay more than I bargained for when I wrote my initial post. Thanks to EVERYONE for their input.

First, a few messages from you that we'll definitely use/consider:

1. Pack light
2. Find places where we can do laundry
3. Move from South to North - I haven't suggested this one to my family yet, so it's not reflected in the itinerary below.

We went back to the drawing board and here's itinerary 3.0. We made a few big changes. 1. We removed the French Alps 2. Ligurian Coast instead of Amalfi Coast 3. Add Tuscany

June 15-20: Paris
June 20 travel day: Fly from Paris to Pisa or Genoa and take train/bus/? to Ligurian Coast on June 20 - not sure what city yet and haven't looked at transporation specifics. Looks like there are direct flights from Paris to Pisa, but not to Genoa. Are we wrong on that?
June 20-June 24 Ligurian coast
June 24 travel day: Rent 2 cars and travel to Tuscany - perhaps near Montepulciano
June 24-June 28 Tuscany
June 28 travel day: drive to Rome and return rental cars
June 28-July 1 Rome
July 1 fly home

This itinerary gives us 4 full days in Paris, 3 full days on the Ligurian Coast, 3 full days in Tuscany, and 2 full days in Rome. We could move the extra day in Paris to one of the other stops, but if we're stuck on being in France and Italy, we figure we might as well stay there for the extra day. Yes, 4 stops is likely more than many of you would take, but our family has 1 chance to be in Europe together, we are willing to add a travel day to get in one more location. I do feel bad for my brother who originally wanted to go to Colmar and the Alps (Lauterbrunnen Valley first, then Chamonix). First he gave up on Colmar, and later gave up on the Alps. He did say he's good with our current plan, but it feels like he's getting the short end of the stick. He might stay a few extra days in Europe and I suggested he use that time to hit the mountains. There was just no way we could go to Paris, Colmar, the Lauterbrunnen Valley, and hit Italy in 16 days, right?

We like this current itinerary because it still gives us France (Paris) for a good chunk of time and then we keep our Italy portion of the trip with shorter distances between stops. We got rid of the biggest sticking point, the French Alps as many of you have recommended.

Is our plan to rent 2 cars when we leave the Ligurian Coast to drive to Tuscany and then to drop them off in Rome a good idea or would you recommend we travel by a different mode (train/bus/private van) from Liguria to Tuscany and then to Rome?

Do you see any other problems with the current plan or is this a good solution to satisfy the France/Italy desire my family has without such long travel days? Any suggested tweaks that we haven't considered?

Let me know if you have suggestions for cities to stay on the Ligurian Coast or in Tuscany. I noted the recommendations for Sanremo, Savona, and Imperia and see they are further west. We were thinking more in the area of Portofino or Cinque Terre. One of the reasons we chose to be further east is so that we can more quickly get to Tuscany. Definitely open to your suggestions there. I do like the idea of sandy beaches so our girls can get in the water. Not sure which cities may be best for that.

Thanks again! I can't believe how amazing you've all been!

mjs

I actually like 5 nights in Paris. Gives you time to get over jet lag and gives you enough time to get a feel for the city. In terms of the Ligurian coast there are many options. Portofino is nice but extremely expensive and driving there is very stressful. Tuscany is a large area and you do not have much time to see much of it. What is it you want to see and do in Tuscany? Lastly I would not add time to Rome. You do not have time to see Rome. I would also not drive into Rome but drop your cars off somewhere like Orvieto and train into Rome. Leave Rome for another time when you can do it justice

mjs

I would also consider flying into Genoa. I think there is currently a flight a day from Orly. Take the train to somewhere like SML and stay there. You may or may not need a car for Tuscany depending on your interests.

StuDudley

You'll need a car if you plan to stay in Montepulciano.

You can also take the train from Chiusi-Chianciano Terme to Rome. Less than 2 hr trip. Orvieto is about 15 mins shorter trip to Rome. Chiusi is closer to Montepulciano by 30 mins - but is a little difficult to find. More than 7 years ago, car rental places in Orvieto were on & off. Make sure you can return a car there before you book a train from Orvieto. The Europcar office in Chiusi is about a 20-30 min walk downhill to the station. We drop off the bags at the station, and one of us drives to the Europcar office to return the car. Hertz might be closer - but is on & off too. Check. Consider visiting Orvieto - one of our favorites. Maybe do a "dry run" there while in Montepulciano to visit Orvieto & check out the car return/train situation. Same with Chiusi.

Don"t drive into Rome.

No need for winter clothing.

Your plan #3 is fine.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

Also, if you pick up a car in SML on Monday June 24 and return it on Friday the 28th, note that rental offices are often closed on Saturday or only open in the morning. On Sunday, they are usually closed all day. Research this info if you change any dates in your itinerary. They are almost always closed for lunch too.

Stu Dudley

SusanP

Sometimes people come here looking for advice on their itinerary but don't really want anybody to tell them their plan just won't work, so it's great to see someone who takes all the suggestions and adjusts their plan. If StuDudley, with all his experience, says your most recent plan is good, you can congratulate yourself!

You still end up with too little time in Rome (my favorite place), but you can always go back! 😁

millie2112

I would fly into Paris, stay 5 nights, then 5 nights Rome and then 4 nights Sorrento. Back to Rome and fly home

While I think the urge is to see "everything" while you are there, it will really be too rushed.

giggiotravel

I also think so, as far as Italy is concerned I can tell you that reaching Tuscany from the Amalfi Coast takes a long time. Consider that you should arrive in Naples or Salerno from there take a train to Florence and then get to Montepulciano with a taxi. So just visiting a country requires a lot of travel time.

neckervd

Salerno - Montepulciano by train is just 4 hrs 20 min. For example:
Salerno dp 13.05 - Montepulciano ar 17.26. Change at Rome and Chiusi.

Jean

Just to be clear, it's another (nearly) 30 minutes by taxi from the Montepulciano train station to Piazza Grande in the center of the town.