StuDudley

This should be your first bit of travel research.

Go to the German Transportation site
https://int.bahn.de/en
Enter "Paris" as the From, and Chamonix-Mont-Blanc as the To
Put in a date & time of sometime next week & 6am (can you get up & "rolling" in time to get to the Gare de Lyon by 7:30AM) .

See what you get.

Then select the "detail" to determine how much time you have for the many train & bus connections.

I also hope you read the document I attached about the weather we experienced in early July.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

Next trip plan - Chamonix to Sorrento
Use Rome2Rio
https://www.rome2rio.com/

But enter your own time estimates for the three connections. Especially for the flight departure & arrival for 7 people with checked luggage.

Here is what I came up with:

Depart Chamonix by bus at 10 am & arrive at the Geneva airport at 11:18
Check in luggage, get boarding documents, & security
Flight departs at 2:15 & arrives in Naples at 3:56
Retrieve luggage
Depart Naples airport by bus at 5:30 & arrive in Naples Piazza Garabaldi at 5:45. I have no idea where the Piazza is.
Depart Piazza Garabaldi by train at 6:55 & arrive in Sorrento at 8:05. Sooner if you are lucky.
Get to hotel, check in for 3-4 rooms(?), arrive in room for a "freshen up" and "ready to go" by 9:30pm
Have a very late dinner in Sorrento.

If you want to visit the Amalfi coast then next day - you'll need to get on a bus to do that (I'm not a fan of Sorrento).

Stu Dudley

AJPeabody

Since you seem pretty set on a bunch of short stays, please, please, get a calendar and map out each segment against the days of the week. Closure days, when stores and tourist sites are closed, can wreck a short stay in a particular place. If at all possible, map travel days onto closure days. Usual closure days are Sunday and Monday, with some museums closing Tuesdays. Also note that train and bus schedules can be different on weekends. Finally, mark the local holidays on your calendar. A holiday may make a planned visit impossible or may provide a festival that you won't want to miss.


Now also help us help you by collecting lists of must see must do goals for each place. I suggest giving that task to the members of your group who have determined a particular place to be included in your trip. Make each list twice as long as you will have time for, to allow choices when the inevitable temporary repair closure or massive rainstorm messes up your best laid plans. Getting there may be half the fun, but planning is even more fun and is essential. And don't be afraid to split the group occasionally to accommodate differences in desires and mobility.

Edit addition: Chamonix is not the only Alpine place. There are Swiss, French, and Italian Alps. Perhaps changing your Alp may make your travel easier.

Travel_Nerd

What AJP said. What are your plans for your visit to this area? You may have mentioned it but i admit I've skimmed the responses. Is it to hike and see Mont Blanc? What if weather is cruddy when you're there and you can't do or see nothing? Chamonix is great, don't get me wrong, but to travel all the way to a place that is an outlier just to have some semblance of an "alpine experience" in an already hectic plan seems a bit counter-intuitive, IMO. And, if going to the mountains is an absolute "my dream to see" by someone, consider going to an area better connected instead.

I know I'm echoing a lot of what has been said.

And I know that you want to adhere to the requests of everyone in this plan but think of it this way: the who making the request. Of everyone, there are "obvious" people who may not get to do much traveling over 5 people that still may have the opportunity. As someone who has traveled with their elderly parents, I've put their must-sees in priority over everyone else's. You do you, but I'd consider this option to simplify your itinerary if you can.

coral22

Yay! I am glad you checked back in after all of the "excitement" I think your trip will be wonderful! Use all of this good advice, but follow your heart.Do read Stu's advice and itineraries, wonderful! Do plan for time to relax, sleep in sometimes, and that someone probably will get sick. Also, work in a place to do laundry. A home rental somewhere with an in unit washing machine would be great.

I am someone who likes the flavor of different locations, I think France and Italy are a great combination.
If you don't have your flights yet and the price wouldn't much different, I would suggest flipping your trip. Italy was incredibly hot last summer, so do the hottest first, then work your way north.

Fly into Rome, spend at least 3 nights there. Train down to Naples, I think Sorrento is a good destination and the area has a lot different activities, Pompei is a must! Fly from Naples to Geneva on Easy Jet and get your Alps time in. Train to Paris, about 3+ hours. Fly out of Paris.

You then have city energy, mountain vistas, water views and beaches. Great food, culture, history, and archaeology. And most locations don't need a car and have different directions to take for those with different interests. I think in the Alps plan, a car would be helpful. 2 cars would be plenty, we had a small SUV in Italy that fit 4 adults, 4- 24 inch suitcases, and 4 backpacks. Enjoy!

StuDudley

"Fly from Naples to Geneva on Easy Jet and get your Alps time in""

Their plan is to wake up in Chamonix and and go to sleep in Sorrento. According the the info I found on Rome2Rio & posted in #42, that trip consumes 12 hours with a bus, plane, bus, train. And if they miss either the first bus or the plane - they are stuck - maybe sleeping in an airport or bus station (7 people). I assume Sorrento to Chamonix is somewhat the same.

. ""Train to Paris, about 3+ hours. Fly out of Paris""

Again their plan is Paris to Chamonix. Either get up when it is dark and get to the Gare de Lyon at 7:30 and take 3 trains/buses to Chamonix and arrive at 2:13, or take a later train with 4 trains/buses & arrive at 4:45.

I researched November schedules. Maybe June schedules are better.

Stu Dudley

lrice

I love this group! So many well-traveled people to offer help!

I was going to suggest an itinerary similar to what bvlenci suggested. Start with Paris, take the train to Geneva/bus up to Chamonix (the gite that Stu stayed in is stunning!). Then back to Geneva to fly to Venice. You could visit the old towns of Padua, Treviso or Verona, Depart from Venice.

mjs

I gotta feel with the OP trying to satisfy everyone in his/her travel group of people who do not seem to have much experience traveling to Europe. I like the suggestion of prioritizing the parents wishes if it helps make for a more sane itinerary.

analyticaldreamer890

OP-
I have done this entire itinerary, but in 2 different trips, so here is my advice for you.
BLUF: This is a totally do-able trip.

We flew into CDG and then went to LON for the weekend, flew from LON to Geneva, took a private van from Geneva to Chamonix. We spent 2 nights in Chamonix, took the gondola up to aiguille du midi, but basically just relaxed and enjoyed ourselves. Could have stayed 10 more nights, to be truthful. We stayed at the hotel right at the base of the gondola, and it was fantastic. We then moved on to Annecy. The train was NOT running at the time, so we had to go by bus. Oh my gossshhhhh -- it took forrreevvverrr. But that was that -- we got to Annecy. Honestly, we were very glad to only be staying 1 night there. We did the boat out onto the lake, we walked the entire town, but we were pretty done by the end of the night. The next morning, we got up extremely early, caught the train to Lyon, and continued up the Eastern spine of France via Colmar and Strasbourg, eventually heading west again to CDG and out.

I also have done Rome & Sorrento. I think you don't need that many days in Sorrento. But, if you want to go to Capri (it's a short 30-45 min catamaran -- but they are big boats, so generally a nice ride), or if you plan on laying out in the sun, or plan on using Sorrento as a base to go to Pompeii (and I would then encourage you to split the time and go to Herculaneum), then maybe. I will note, by the way, that both Pompeii and Herculaneum are easily reachable by the local train, but it is a heavily pickpocketed train, so watch your stuff while on it. As for Rome, I wouldn't honestly even bother if you only have one day. To make it worth it, I would shave a day off of Paris, and at least one off of Sorrento, and turn it into 3 days in Rome. When you are leaving, getting to FCO can be pretty annoying, but take the train and it's relatively easy -- I actually took it from a local (not Termini) station, and it was so much easier. On that note... people will tell you to steer clear of the main Rome train terminal (Termini.) I was absolutely safe there, but I would say to be VERY careful with all of your stuff -- there are loads of pickpockets.

As for getting to where you want to go... here is what I would do, to be honest:
(1) CDG to Geneva, private van service to Chamonix. --> Long day, but this gets you into Chamonix in a day. Make sure you stay somewhere easy where you can get to the main drag in town.
(2) If you are absolutely hell bent on Annecy, okay, but that is a lonnnnngggg day trip because you have to come out of the Alps basically and down, then back up. Not worth it, IMO, but might be for you, so you have to decide
(3) To get to Sorrento: From Chamonix, I would go BACK to Geneva via private van, and FLY to Naples or Rome and train from there into Sorrento. Note: Naples is a little sketchy still, so eehhh. If you do Rome, however, you are going to have to haul from the airport into Termini, then from Termini take a train to Naples, so technically end up in the same spot, just skipping the Naples airport and transfer. The Naples-- Sorrento train is the one I mentioned above that runs through Pompeii and has the heavy pickpocketing. Also, it takes, if I recall, about 45 min from Naples to Sorrento. It was a while ago for me though, so I might be wrong.
(4) From Sorrento to Rome, just going to have to reverse this, go back up to Naples, then take a train to Rome.
(5) From Rome (Termini station or a local station, depending on where you stay...) you'll train out to FCO and fly home.

Regarding luggage: You are planning to move all over the place. I would limit everyone in my party to a 40L bag they can carry (NO ROLLING BAGS) + small day bag. Otherwise, you will be wasting time trying to manage the luggage, which is entirely unnecessary, to be honest, for the length of trip you will be gone. I don't think you need 3 rental cars or anything like that (!!!!!), but I definitely would limit the baggage. I have never rented a car in Europe, and have spent a lot of time there-- done "circle tours" of 5..6... countries now. Trains are awesome AND... so are planes. Just have to do it right. Keep yourselves to 40L + small day bag, and costs stay down. I personally am a fan of REI and Tom Bihn bags, but TB is very $$ -- that said, I have a TB Synapse that has been literally around the world with me for over 100 days of travel, and it's only 23L -- it's not what you take, it's how the bag works for you. I took a 40L on a 2019 trip to Poland for 3 weeks and though it was so big I had no idea what to do with all the space...

LASTLY. DON'T LET ANYONE DISCOURAGE YOU from doing what you & your family want to do. It's YOUR TRIP. Yeah, this is a LOT of traveling, but you know what? Then everyone gets to see what they want AND... you still have time together. Travel light, and make the traveling part of the adventure-- you get to see a lot along the way. Also? Airports in Europe generally run on-time and they aren't the pain in the butt that they are in the US necessarily, and the kids will love to try EU food (esp. Geneva). They can also say they went to Switzerland!!!

Have a great trip and best of luck!! (I was going to attach photos for you, but I don't have enough posts to do that... happy to send you some if you can figure out a way to message me your email!

coral22

Stu, I am suggesting they flip the trip.
Rome-Naples-Geneva-Paris.
Do the warmest destination first and work north.Sleep in Rome, Sorrento, ?, Paris.
Easy Jet flight Naples to Geneva is 1:50, rent 2 cars for that area, return car to Geneva train station, Lyria nonstop train to Paris is 3:13.

StuDudley

The OP indicated that they won't likely rent a car. So that makes the Paris/Chamonix portion more complicated.

The Sorrento/Chamonix trip is the killer, since a car is not an option there either.

Stu Dudley

bilboburgler

40 litre bag seems overkill, you'll be buried in bags

janisj

40 liters is about a regular 21 inch rollaboard so not overkill at all. But I definitely don't get the prohibition on wheelie bags. For some, a rollaboard is the only way is they could manage 40 liters.

bilboburgler

yes they need wheels, especially given the age range.

I find the idea of switching around the trip to avoid the problems of Climate Change due to aircraft flight and to recommend flying frankly mind-boggling. But most of you guys know that.

StuDudley

It seems to me that Easy jet is not an option. According to Rome2Rio, there is not a direct flight from Geneva to Naples on the OP's June 20 travel date!!!

There is a direct flight on:
June 19 at 4 PM - which will get them to Sorrento about 9:30PM
June 21 at 9:am (too early) and 4 PM
June 22 at 11:50 - again too early

I could not get the EasyJet site to work - it always gave me an error message. Which is a red flag, in my opinion.

There is not a bus from Chamonix to Geneva that will get them there on time for an earlier flight check in (earliest is at 9:18AM but departs Chamonix at 8AM - very risky).

So the only option is the 4PM flight that arrives at 5:45. Then they will retrieve their bags and take a taxi to the piazza Garabaldi (bus service does not run that late) and take the 8:07 train from there that arrives in Sorrento at 9:17. Can they get 3 taxis at the airport in a reasonable time??

So does anyone have a non-car solution???

Stu Dudley

AJPeabody

Chamonix is the sticking point. The complexity of getting there and getting to the next point has a high risk of messing up royally. Go elsewhere. For instance, Geneva/Lake Geneva area has access to the Jungfrau. There may even be a Geneva based Alps bus tour, perhaps combined with a lake excursion. Research!

coral22

Stu,
My itinerary only works with flipping the order of the trip. Easy Jet has flights on June 22 at 9:30 and 1:30 FROM Naples TO Geneva. Flipping would also give the Alps location a chance to warm up a little.
I totally agree that Chamonix is the sticking point, many other mentioned Alps locations would be an easier option.

neckervd

Answer to post 33:
Timetable Chamnonix - Sorrento for June 24th:
Chamonix dp 7.00 by Flixbus - Milan Lampuigano ar 10.40. Metro red line to Cadorna, plus metro green line to Centrale.
Milano Centrale dp 13.00 - Trenitalia - Napoli Centrale ar 17.33, dp 18.19 - Cirvumvesuviana - Sorrento ar 18.29

Travel_Nerd

12 hours of travel to get there, basically. With 7 people. I'd be exhausted the following day, assuming nothing goes wrong...

StuDudley

The most difficult part is getting the group of 7 (with 2 teens) to the bus area at 6:30 am. This is suppose to be a VACATION.

Coral - I agree with you. Probably best to reverse everything.

Stu Dudley