Fowler asks: Been intimidated by a travel experience? How'd you cope?
Jun 28th, 2007, 07:09 AM
#41
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What I don't understand is why someone working on commission doesn't push and fall all over the customer like a car salesman does.
Remember Julia Roberts in that snooty boutique on Rodeo Drive in the movie "Pretty Woman"? She got the last laugh when she took her business to another store.
Remember Julia Roberts in that snooty boutique on Rodeo Drive in the movie "Pretty Woman"? She got the last laugh when she took her business to another store.
Jun 28th, 2007, 08:18 AM
#42
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So, here's a take on the difference between the Italian retail experience and the American, from Beppe Severgnini's "La Bella Figura". First, he sets up the issue:
"In Italy, seducing the customer is instinctive. It's a craft, not a science. The clerks haven't been taught to sell. They have the blood of generations of wily merchants flowing in their veins. One day obsequious, the next detached; now a hint of seduction, now an explanation; coolness in the morning, and empathy in the evening.
"But not in the center of Milan. Here they play by other rules."
Severgnini explains:
"There is a shoestore in the Brera district. A woman has come in to buy a pair of shoes. The clerk makes no move. She leans on the cash register, observing. Then she says hello, but it's such an unfriendly eructation that the customer thinks the clerk has digestive problems.
"The lady tries on a few shoes. At the fourth pair, the clerk is showing signs of impatience. 'I'm wasting her time,' thinks the customer, guiltily. After a quarter-hour, the customer is a little cowed. Half an hour later, her feet are tired, the floor is covered in empty shoeboxes, and the clerk's eyes are flashing bolts of lightning. The customer seeks a way out, but there is none. As soon as she puts on the shoes she was wearing when she came in, the truth will out. She isn't going to buy anything.
"In the end, the lady decides to lie. She whispers, barely audibly, 'I'll stop in again. I have to speak to my husband.' The clerk stares at the shopper without pity. For years, she has been hearing that, 'I'll stop in again,' but no one ever has. 'I have to speak to my husband!' the clerk thinks to herself. 'That woman doesn't even tell her husband where she's going on holiday!'
"The clerk is irritated, and makes no secret of the fact. She doesn't believe the customer really wanted a pair of shoes. She might just have been passing the time of day. As she heads for the door, the customer feels confused and worried. For a moment, she thinkgs she's going to be attacked from behind. Out in the street, she reflects, 'I would have bought a pair of shoes if the girl had been a little more polite. Those moccassins were really nice." But she daren't go back in.
"The clerk is back at the cash desk, inspecting her fingernails. Suddenly she smiles. 'Hey,' she says to the other clerk, 'didn't you feel sorry for that woman? If I'm any judge, she was the kind of woman who runs her own business, but she still couldn't tell me, "Look, I've tried lots of shoes, but I haven't found a pair I like. Sorry." I'd have understood, wouldn't I?'
"Now imagine what would happen in the States, in an ordinary shoe store, in an ordinary mall, on the outskirts of an ordinary city. The same Milanese woman goes in to buy a pair of shoes. The smiling clerk comes over and greets her, 'Hi! How are you today?' She's so welcoming that the Milanese lady wonders whether they have met somewhere before.
"The clerk asks the customer to sit down. She talks about the weather. She makes jokes. The customer tries twenty pairs of shoes, then another ten. The clerk maintains her poise. She proposes new styles, and makes an effort to keep smiling. Half an hour later, the customer decides there's nothing she likes. Slightly embarrassed, she hints that she wants to go. the clerk doesn't look annoyed. Sad, if anything. She says, 'It's a pity you didn't find a pair you like, ma'am. But don't worry, and do come back to see us.' At the door, the young American says, 'Have a nice day!'
"The lady from Milan is now bemused. For an instant, she wishes her daughter were more like the clerk. 'Perhaps I should have bought something. After all, those moccasins were really nice.' Ten minutes later, she's back. The clerk is waiting for her at the door. 'Welcome back!' the clerk croons. When the customer emerges from the shop, she is carrying a bag with her new shoes. She walks off. At that point, the clerk stops smiling. She turns around, and says to her colleague, 'Hey, Tracy, did you see that Eye-talian? What a pain. but I sold her those goddam shoes. Can I sell shoes or can I sell shoes?'"
"In Italy, seducing the customer is instinctive. It's a craft, not a science. The clerks haven't been taught to sell. They have the blood of generations of wily merchants flowing in their veins. One day obsequious, the next detached; now a hint of seduction, now an explanation; coolness in the morning, and empathy in the evening.
"But not in the center of Milan. Here they play by other rules."
Severgnini explains:
"There is a shoestore in the Brera district. A woman has come in to buy a pair of shoes. The clerk makes no move. She leans on the cash register, observing. Then she says hello, but it's such an unfriendly eructation that the customer thinks the clerk has digestive problems.
"The lady tries on a few shoes. At the fourth pair, the clerk is showing signs of impatience. 'I'm wasting her time,' thinks the customer, guiltily. After a quarter-hour, the customer is a little cowed. Half an hour later, her feet are tired, the floor is covered in empty shoeboxes, and the clerk's eyes are flashing bolts of lightning. The customer seeks a way out, but there is none. As soon as she puts on the shoes she was wearing when she came in, the truth will out. She isn't going to buy anything.
"In the end, the lady decides to lie. She whispers, barely audibly, 'I'll stop in again. I have to speak to my husband.' The clerk stares at the shopper without pity. For years, she has been hearing that, 'I'll stop in again,' but no one ever has. 'I have to speak to my husband!' the clerk thinks to herself. 'That woman doesn't even tell her husband where she's going on holiday!'
"The clerk is irritated, and makes no secret of the fact. She doesn't believe the customer really wanted a pair of shoes. She might just have been passing the time of day. As she heads for the door, the customer feels confused and worried. For a moment, she thinkgs she's going to be attacked from behind. Out in the street, she reflects, 'I would have bought a pair of shoes if the girl had been a little more polite. Those moccassins were really nice." But she daren't go back in.
"The clerk is back at the cash desk, inspecting her fingernails. Suddenly she smiles. 'Hey,' she says to the other clerk, 'didn't you feel sorry for that woman? If I'm any judge, she was the kind of woman who runs her own business, but she still couldn't tell me, "Look, I've tried lots of shoes, but I haven't found a pair I like. Sorry." I'd have understood, wouldn't I?'
"Now imagine what would happen in the States, in an ordinary shoe store, in an ordinary mall, on the outskirts of an ordinary city. The same Milanese woman goes in to buy a pair of shoes. The smiling clerk comes over and greets her, 'Hi! How are you today?' She's so welcoming that the Milanese lady wonders whether they have met somewhere before.
"The clerk asks the customer to sit down. She talks about the weather. She makes jokes. The customer tries twenty pairs of shoes, then another ten. The clerk maintains her poise. She proposes new styles, and makes an effort to keep smiling. Half an hour later, the customer decides there's nothing she likes. Slightly embarrassed, she hints that she wants to go. the clerk doesn't look annoyed. Sad, if anything. She says, 'It's a pity you didn't find a pair you like, ma'am. But don't worry, and do come back to see us.' At the door, the young American says, 'Have a nice day!'
"The lady from Milan is now bemused. For an instant, she wishes her daughter were more like the clerk. 'Perhaps I should have bought something. After all, those moccasins were really nice.' Ten minutes later, she's back. The clerk is waiting for her at the door. 'Welcome back!' the clerk croons. When the customer emerges from the shop, she is carrying a bag with her new shoes. She walks off. At that point, the clerk stops smiling. She turns around, and says to her colleague, 'Hey, Tracy, did you see that Eye-talian? What a pain. but I sold her those goddam shoes. Can I sell shoes or can I sell shoes?'"
Jun 28th, 2007, 02:02 PM
#44
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And truthfully, her in the gold old USofA we have plenty of rude or clueless salespeople. This is sometimes because the retailers have scaled back wages and benefits so that employees are either unhappy or unskilled. At other retailers, the sevice might be terrific.
So, I trade at some stores for the service, others for the big selection, others for the price. Rarely you get all three!
I know people who take it personally when they get bad or rude service. I don't. Who wants to let a store clerk or cashier ruin your day? And I take the same philosophy with me when I travel: I'm more likely to try charming the help with my own manners than to let them get me steamed or hurt my feelings.
Besides,you never know if that surly clerk is having a bad day (or life.)
So, I trade at some stores for the service, others for the big selection, others for the price. Rarely you get all three!
I know people who take it personally when they get bad or rude service. I don't. Who wants to let a store clerk or cashier ruin your day? And I take the same philosophy with me when I travel: I'm more likely to try charming the help with my own manners than to let them get me steamed or hurt my feelings.
Besides,you never know if that surly clerk is having a bad day (or life.)
Jun 28th, 2007, 02:38 PM
#45
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My intimidating travel moment:
I was in the middle of a three week solo trip to England and Scotland when I arrived in Edinburgh during the August festivals. The city was packed and just getting a cab from the train station to my hotel took over an hour.
I was concerned about the time because I had tickets to the Military Tatoo that started around 10 pm. I had a quick bite to eat and headed over to the Castle grounds. The hotel concierge assured me that it was an easy walk and that I could catch a cab on the way back.
I absolutely loved the performance and the fireworks at the end were amazing. However, at 1 pm when it was over, there were thousands of people trying to find cabs and none to be found.
So there I was, a lone woman of a certain age, trying to find a hotel no one else had ever heard of, on streets so dark I could not read my map, visions of the movie Trainspotting in my head.
A large group of young people came up behind me walking fast, laughing and talking. I froze to let them pass by - until one young man asked me if he could be of assistance. He and his friends figured out where my hotel was and walked me there! So at 2 am, I arrived at my hotel with an escort.
I figure after that experience, it will take a lot to intimidate me again.
I was in the middle of a three week solo trip to England and Scotland when I arrived in Edinburgh during the August festivals. The city was packed and just getting a cab from the train station to my hotel took over an hour.
I was concerned about the time because I had tickets to the Military Tatoo that started around 10 pm. I had a quick bite to eat and headed over to the Castle grounds. The hotel concierge assured me that it was an easy walk and that I could catch a cab on the way back.
I absolutely loved the performance and the fireworks at the end were amazing. However, at 1 pm when it was over, there were thousands of people trying to find cabs and none to be found.
So there I was, a lone woman of a certain age, trying to find a hotel no one else had ever heard of, on streets so dark I could not read my map, visions of the movie Trainspotting in my head.
A large group of young people came up behind me walking fast, laughing and talking. I froze to let them pass by - until one young man asked me if he could be of assistance. He and his friends figured out where my hotel was and walked me there! So at 2 am, I arrived at my hotel with an escort.
I figure after that experience, it will take a lot to intimidate me again.
Jun 28th, 2007, 07:50 PM
#46
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My first trip out of the US was in 1963, when I flew to Japan to take a job as a teacher for the U.S. Dept. of Defense. I arrived in Tokyo in the middle of the night, after and 18 hour flight, with no idea of what to do or where to go.
I was quite naive and has assumed there would be someone to meet me. I was panicked. I asked an American officer where he and his family were going. He said they were going to the Sanno Hotel, a hotel for American officers.
I decided to go there also, but when I arrived,after waiting interminably for a bus to take me, I was told I would have to go to the enlisted hotel. I was exhausted and ready to cry but got on yet another bus for yet another interminable ride and finally got a room at the enlisted hotel.
Later on, I realized if I'd known what I was doing, I would have checked into a nice hotel and been lost for a couple of days, as the army paid for travel expenses.
I was quite naive and has assumed there would be someone to meet me. I was panicked. I asked an American officer where he and his family were going. He said they were going to the Sanno Hotel, a hotel for American officers.
I decided to go there also, but when I arrived,after waiting interminably for a bus to take me, I was told I would have to go to the enlisted hotel. I was exhausted and ready to cry but got on yet another bus for yet another interminable ride and finally got a room at the enlisted hotel.
Later on, I realized if I'd known what I was doing, I would have checked into a nice hotel and been lost for a couple of days, as the army paid for travel expenses.
Jul 4th, 2007, 02:55 AM
#47
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Making fun of customers is a time-honored, deeply cherished privilege of anyone in a service job, whether shop salesperson, waiter/ress, hotel front desk clerk or flight attendant. However, you should do so only when firmly out of any customer's sight and hearing.
If you are a particularly demanding customer and your salesperson suddenly has to take more time than usual to find something for you "in the back", be assured that you are being mocked in excruciating detail to the other staffers. But once the door swings back into the public arena, politeness and courtesy should once again prevail.
If you are a particularly demanding customer and your salesperson suddenly has to take more time than usual to find something for you "in the back", be assured that you are being mocked in excruciating detail to the other staffers. But once the door swings back into the public arena, politeness and courtesy should once again prevail.
Jul 4th, 2007, 08:28 AM
#49
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The most intimidating... in my twenties at a sports tournament in Boston, driving back to our hotel a group of 5 of us in a car, took the wrong exit of the highway and suddenly found ourselves up in some other world where most of the streetlights didn't work, where the only people on the street were clusters of young men, including a group surrounding an apparently abandoned parked car, where most windows were either broken or boarded. We 'coped' by urging the driver not to stop at any stop signs and to drive the wrong way up a wrong way street to get the h$%# out of there. And then one turn away... we were back in the well lit, happy, populated parallel universe where we had started... It wasn't just the feeling of being in danger, but what was intimidating was the fact that we were able to cross the sharp line between 'good area' and 'bad area' so immediately and unexpectedly. Intimidating!
Jul 4th, 2007, 08:54 AM
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I was having lunch, alone at Le Violon d'Ingres, in Paris; I'd e-mailed or faxed from the US a few days earlier for my reservation. They sat me in an aisle, right next to the door to toilets; I motioned to the table next to me and asked the waiter to be seated there. The waiter asked "why?" which surprised me. I answered, in French, that I didn't want to sit near the toilets. He said the other table was for 2. I pointed out it was the same size, etc. He ignored me and went away. Remembering I'd faxed from the US, when he came back with a breadbasket, I ignored him and instead I very obviously pulled out my Blackberry and a notebook, looked around the room in an exaggerated fashion, and started -- very obviously -- taking notes. Soon. I looked up to see a huddle of staff people, and suddenly, out of nowhere, some minions appeared and set up a gorgeous little table for me in a secluded, but central, part of the room. Draw what conclusions you will.
Jess
Jess
Jul 4th, 2007, 10:34 AM
#51
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BT, very true that in dealing with the public you must retain the right to judge them! As you say, it must not be in their presence - or in the presence of other customers, in fact. The same rule applies in society in general. That many "workers" today break this social rule says more about our general lack of civility than about salespeople specifically, I think.
We can console ourselves in the knowledge that waiters and clerks are also praising some customers behind those closed doors. But the art is in making a customer feel welcome and well-seved even when you'd rather like to see them jump in a lake.
We can console ourselves in the knowledge that waiters and clerks are also praising some customers behind those closed doors. But the art is in making a customer feel welcome and well-seved even when you'd rather like to see them jump in a lake.
Jul 4th, 2007, 10:47 AM
#52
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tom-with-the-very-long-name-and-no-obvious-diminuitive wrote: "But the art is in making a customer feel welcome and well-seved even when you'd rather like to see them jump in a lake."
If you hadn't already mentioned it, I would have known from that that you worked as a waiter.
There are times when I, as a customer, see staff being given a hard time when they don't deserve it. I often mutter a few words to indicate my sympathy or solidarity. I think such words are much appreciated.
If you hadn't already mentioned it, I would have known from that that you worked as a waiter.
There are times when I, as a customer, see staff being given a hard time when they don't deserve it. I often mutter a few words to indicate my sympathy or solidarity. I think such words are much appreciated.
Jul 5th, 2007, 07:45 PM
#53
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When I was 17 in mid 1970's I went with a friend to Copenhagen to stay with my granny. One day we went to Tivoli and went on the old wooden roller coaster. While we queued up we got chatted up by a couple of sailors on leave off ship (still wearing sailor clothes). We got on the roller coaster and they got in front of us. During the ride when the coaster went into a steep dip through the dark tunnel one of the sailors turned around and grabbed my crotch ...
... instead of me screaming out I just grabbed one of his fingers and bent it back - hard!
He screamed! When the ride ended we were able to walk away from them (I had to tell my friend what happened because it happened in the dark).
Just imagine HIM explaining how he got his finger injured ...
... instead of me screaming out I just grabbed one of his fingers and bent it back - hard!
He screamed! When the ride ended we were able to walk away from them (I had to tell my friend what happened because it happened in the dark).
Just imagine HIM explaining how he got his finger injured ...
Jul 6th, 2007, 01:01 AM
#55
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adrienne!! what a nightmare!!!
scariest situation in my life was on a late train from manhattan out to conneticutt, fortunately with my husband after the theater.
just three WASPs on this train, ( 2 women, one spaniard) and the rest were huge, t-shirt clad strong boys with boom boxes and eying these last two women and one man on this train.
two started to undress, and they were carousing around trying to intimidate us all.. i really was expecting the worst, as was my husband. we were afraid to get off as we had no idea what type of neighborhood we would be in.. so.. just sat there and tried not to make eye contact.
a train conductor or ticket man came to our car, and gently asked these dudes to get their clothes back on and not cause problems, that they were frightening everyone.
he, himself, seemd a bit intimidated, but must have some way of getting police there quickly.( i hoped)
anyway.. once the train master left.. they were still eyeing us and snickering and being COOL, but got dressed and moved off the train a few stops later.
Whew!!!!!!!!!
scariest situation in my life was on a late train from manhattan out to conneticutt, fortunately with my husband after the theater.
just three WASPs on this train, ( 2 women, one spaniard) and the rest were huge, t-shirt clad strong boys with boom boxes and eying these last two women and one man on this train.
two started to undress, and they were carousing around trying to intimidate us all.. i really was expecting the worst, as was my husband. we were afraid to get off as we had no idea what type of neighborhood we would be in.. so.. just sat there and tried not to make eye contact.
a train conductor or ticket man came to our car, and gently asked these dudes to get their clothes back on and not cause problems, that they were frightening everyone.
he, himself, seemd a bit intimidated, but must have some way of getting police there quickly.( i hoped)
anyway.. once the train master left.. they were still eyeing us and snickering and being COOL, but got dressed and moved off the train a few stops later.
Whew!!!!!!!!!
Jul 9th, 2007, 03:40 AM
#56
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LJ
What a sad story, and how hurt and degraded you must have felt, by that little snot pot of a sales assistant, how very rude of her, to treat another human being in that way, it saddened me to read your story. I had a somewhat similiar experience in Rome in a pharmacy, I had the most awful headache on afternoon, so I went to the pharmacy to ask if they could possibly give me some Paracetamol with codine, ( so i could at least maybe sleep through my headache)....well....I politely asked for this concoction , but the snooty auld biddy behind the counter looked at me like I was something you had just scraped of your shoe, and totally dismissed me, she actually shooed me away with her hand, and babbled something in Italian. I stood there with my jaw dropped in shock at her rudeness,I again tried to convey in awkward Italian what I needed, and this time, she raised her eyes to heaven then turned her back on me and ignored me.
By this stage I was so upset and feeling so awful, I had tears in my eyes. I walked out of the shop, but before doing so, i said to her under my breath, but loudly enough for her to hear, " You snooty cow, I hope you get whats coming to you in Life" ...It made me feel a little better to walk away getting the last word.
What a sad story, and how hurt and degraded you must have felt, by that little snot pot of a sales assistant, how very rude of her, to treat another human being in that way, it saddened me to read your story. I had a somewhat similiar experience in Rome in a pharmacy, I had the most awful headache on afternoon, so I went to the pharmacy to ask if they could possibly give me some Paracetamol with codine, ( so i could at least maybe sleep through my headache)....well....I politely asked for this concoction , but the snooty auld biddy behind the counter looked at me like I was something you had just scraped of your shoe, and totally dismissed me, she actually shooed me away with her hand, and babbled something in Italian. I stood there with my jaw dropped in shock at her rudeness,I again tried to convey in awkward Italian what I needed, and this time, she raised her eyes to heaven then turned her back on me and ignored me.
By this stage I was so upset and feeling so awful, I had tears in my eyes. I walked out of the shop, but before doing so, i said to her under my breath, but loudly enough for her to hear, " You snooty cow, I hope you get whats coming to you in Life" ...It made me feel a little better to walk away getting the last word.
Jul 9th, 2007, 08:09 PM
#57
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In that instance I would turn to a civilian - if it had to be a clerk from a neighboring store or a customer at a cafe, so be it. I know too well that I can find an idiot or two working in my own neighborhood (!) and would be happy to intercede for a foreigner in distress!
