willit

A court ruling in Europe has said it is unlawful for airlines to supply US authorities personal information on passengers. Airlines now faced with dilemma of either facing serious fines and loss of landing privaledges, or facing action for breaking European law.

I think this might have serious reprecussions for transatlantic passengers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5028918.stm

Timlin

I can't imagine how that will work itself out. You can see the need for the U.S. to have that information and you always wonder if you have nothing to hide why are you worried about it?.......but then....

hsv

Interesting development, isn't it ?

It appears to be a real dilemma as the US conditions for immigration conflict with European Law.

Personally I indeed see no need for the multitude of data required by the US - and the pre- 9/11 days showed perfectly safe airtravel was possible without this having to be provided in advance.

CotswoldScouser

There isn't an imminent problem: the court has told the airlines they can keep on breaking the law till September.

But it's actually just the Parliament being a bunch of posturing prats again.

European law doesn't prevent airlines handing over information about passengers - or if it does, we've let the bloody EU get away with murder again.

What we were told data protection legislation was going to do was stop companies handing over information about us without our consent. We were never told about laws preventing companies handing over information about us with our consent.

So there's a simple solution. Passengers can have the choice between authorising their data to be pre-transmitted. Or they can queue up on arrival at New York with the released murderers, the self-confessed IRA members (or do they all go to the VIP lounge these days?) and all the other riffraff for a few hours while they get interrogated.

Guess which decision 99.9% of Europeans would take?

Ingo

I am with hsv on this.

And, by the way, this is a reason for me why I have not visited the US so far.

Shocking for you US guys, I know.

highledge

I would like to remind my European friends that UK immigration can be unfriendly as well. And the Home Office can be just as big big of a pain in the neck as Homeland Security.
I hold a valid UK visa and had to spend a lengthy period of time being interviewed on the Eurostar en route to London.
The laws differ from country to country. Strange? I think not. As am American I was amazed to hear on the radio today that 3,000 soccer hooligans have until this week to turn in their passports before the world cup. Many brits wouldn't bat an eye at this "rule." (insert law abiding tourist vs criminal debate here)
I promise you that it would be a huge issue in the US (if people knew what soccer/football was).

The date requirements don't bother me. The vast number of CCTV cameras al over London and the UK frightens me - and no, I don't steal or pick my nose.

jsmith

"and the pre- 9/11 days showed perfectly safe airtravel was possible"

Lockerbie doesn't count?

alanRow

<<Lockerbie doesn't count?>>

So knowing a person's meal choice would have detected the bomb in checked through luggage?

willit

As am American I was amazed to hear on the radio today that 3,000 soccer hooligans have until this week to turn in their passports before the world cup. Many brits wouldn't bat an eye at this "rule."

Most of the 3000 are people who have been banned from domestic and international football games, and part of the conditions of this ban includes handing in of passports. It is all part of the UK's attempts to stop hooliganism.

As a fanatical football fan, I partly agree with it, but am concerned that the level of evidence used to ban some of the supporters would not have stood up in a criminal court for any other offence. For example, during problems in Belgium, the police rounded up anybody within half a mile of the main incident and deported them - this resulted in a banning order for many people who just happened to be in bars around the main square. Several have spent large amounts of money trying to overturn the ban, and asking for evidence that they were in any way involved in the disturbances - without much success.

willit

I believe that the CotswoldScouser is correct in his (I presume his - apologies if incorrect) assessment - Airlines will ask passengers to sign a form agreeing to share details with the US as part of buying a ticket. I would hate to see the dispute turn into a series of "tit for tat" actions on the part of governments and airlines.

dba31498

I believe it is only right for countries to know who is about to enter their airspace and their borders. hsv talks about tghe pre-9/11 world and others talk about the post 9/11 world, but what about the world who lived it. My wife's boss's son was killed in the attack so it makes sense to me to know my enemy

hsv

Of course CotswoldScouser is correct in his assessment. European Law is only valid within the European Union, so the US may very well demand all the data they deem necessary at immigration.

The ruling only concerns data processing - it is not within jurisdiction of the court to prohibit the US to demand certain data upon immigration into their country.

Still, I do have some sympathy for that ruling.

kerouac

Demanding data such as meal preferences will not make the U.S. a safer place.

AnthonyGA

It will make it easier for those in power to control the population, though … and that is the real goal, after all.

NorthShore

"It will make it easier for those in power to control the population, though … and that is the real goal, after all."

The above is a very silly assertion.

tjenneke

I think everybody is right here when they say that the US has the right to gather information about people entering their territory. But as a European citizen I also have the right to know what kind of information is spread about me.And that is the issue at this moment. At this moment airline companies send all kinds of information, including bank account data, credit card numbers...Do you think this is normal? Even the russians didn't ask this kind of information when you applied for a visa during the cold war. Open your eyes, and see where your country is going to. At the moment there is more freedom in russia than in the usa. Unfortunately, Americans are too blind and too naive to see.

Christina

I am missing the point of this whole law and what information they are talking about that they don't want to share, but have.

No airline reservation contains any personal information on me except what is on my passport, and the ticket number, etc. So what are we talking about here?

I read that BBC thing and it doesn't say what all this personal information is that they have, either (it meantions 34 items). Okay, it does say address (which they obviously will get anyway, as it's on your passport), and credit card number. So, is it only the CC number that you bought the airline ticket with that would be additional to passport information?

I think it's probably better not to pass around your credit card number to too many people (like foreign security agencies), but I wouldn't have any intrinsic concern about the information itself if it were required in the reverse situation. I don't think that has much to do with security, as it is pretty easy to get a credit card under any name and address you want.

What is the big objection to this by others who refuse to visit the US because of this? Obviously, folks give out their credit card number all the time to various places when abroad, and the other information is on your passport, isn't it?

logos999

>So what are we talking about here?
Your credit card data, including the purchases you made, when, where and how much you paid, your fingerprints (index fingers) and a photo.

NorthShore

Much to do about nothing. Honest people don't have anything to worry about.

BTilke

CS conveniently overlooks the other decision Europeans may make--not to travel to the U.S. at all (as in Ingo's example). Already, U.S. immigration hassles (real and perceived) have hurt European tourism in places like Florida. International attendance at one of the big medical conventions I attend in the U.S. every year has also taken a hit, with more and more Europeans opting to go to various European convention instead--attendance at one Euro convention is up 30% compared to 2002. And it's NOT because these thousands of doctors had "something to hide."