Fodor’s is now Anti-Gay

Old May 17th, 2008, 06:46 AM
  #21  
 
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Well..you are talking about life threatening places for gay people...and you have looked at a Spain guide. No wonder why you didn't find such an information. There's not such a problem here. You can go wherever you want but if you want a specifically gay scene you won't have to look for it too much. No need for a guide,really.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 06:48 AM
  #22  
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Of course Tom Ripley is not my real name. The reason why anyone shouldn’t use his/her real name on an Internet chat room should be obvious from the above responses.

Tom Ripley is a literary allusion to another gay traveler.
 
Old May 17th, 2008, 06:54 AM
  #23  
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Kenderina:

You wrote: “Well..you are talking about life threatening places for gay people...and you have looked at a Spain guide.”

You are right and I am duly chastened. I just extrapolated from the few new guides that this is policy now – and a disturbing policy at that.

Yet, gay travelers still need to know a little about the destination. If the single gay traveler goes to Vienna thinking “I’ll just research the gay scene when I get there,” then he is going to be in for an unwelcome surprise when he gets there and finds that there is no gay scene to speak of. He’ll probably see all the building there and then switch plans and head to Prague for the rest of his trip.
 
Old May 17th, 2008, 06:57 AM
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PalenQ, you can cancel your screen name etc by clicking your profile link. I think that is perhaps what tom meant.

Tom, I can't give you an answer but I do hope you get one. I agree with what you say, the new guides are not just as comprehensive as previous editions. Perhaps the editor's scissors were used unwisely. I don't know.

Also, it could well be that Fodor's are reaching the stage of thinking that their written guides compliment their website information rather than the other way around. I suppose it is all down to costs these days when it must be cheaper operating a travel website than to print guides.

joe
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Old May 17th, 2008, 06:59 AM
  #25  
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Proenza Preschooler:

Yes, I am a silly boy. I do (or used to) use the guidebooks. I just like them. I like keeping them with me as I walk around. (I need the maps too!)

You make good points – and I do use the Internet as well. Not so much this site anymore, lest my question – “Where do I find the gay bars in Berlin?” – be met with the usual response: “Why don’t you hang out with everybody else?”

I just hope Fodor’s will change back so I can continue foolishly giving them my money.
 
Old May 17th, 2008, 07:03 AM
  #26  
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Janis J:

I just saw your last response. The reason why it is a bad idea is that it is terribly inefficient. Maybe Fodors.com does identify a few lesbian bars when you click on them, but that is not the same thing as listing them in the book. Also, even the website has rather poor information now.

Also, by pointing out that I should rely on the website rather than the books validates my point. One is more likely to carry a guidebook than a laptop on holiday, and they are much better for spontaneous use.
 
Old May 17th, 2008, 07:04 AM
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Who the hell is Bill Reilly? Oh, I've googled him, he's American so no I'm not.

Bigotted, I don't believe so. What I do think is that you get enjoyment from wallowing in the concept that you are in an abused minority.

I have absolutely no interest in your proclivities and you need have no interest in mine.

Yes, I have a couple of Rough Guides, and a couple of Frommers guides as well. Is there something I've missed? Tell me about my 'extracurricular interests'.

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Old May 17th, 2008, 07:06 AM
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My 2008 Fodors Paris Guide has a section on Gay and Lesbian Bars and Clubs.

Otherwise, would a gay man or woman not want to read a guide book that is about a city , rather than who is visiting?
I mean, if an adult male goes to Paris , he doesn't have to be gay or straight to enjoy that city! Monuments and museums and boulevards are not gender/gay/straight specific ..

I think if an area is known to be dangerous, most guide books would publish that, not directing it at gays specifically but because it is a dangerous place.

Perhaps Fodors is just accepting Gay people as the same as all people, figuring we all enjoy the same sights, foods, etc...according to what we can afford more or age specific, rather than gay/straight.

I tend to look for the Good side of things..I would think a company as big and successful as Random House would know what they are doing..they are not going to be offending the gay population purposely.

I liked Tom Ripley, even if he was kind of creepy ...

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Old May 17th, 2008, 07:07 AM
  #29  
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Proenza_Preschooler

By the way, I’m sure you really are “thin and gorgeous!”

Keep reading! You’re the only one to get the allusion.
 
Old May 17th, 2008, 07:09 AM
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Not so much this site anymore, lest my question – “Where do I find the gay bars in Berlin?” – be met with the usual response: “Why don’t you hang out with everybody else?>

but there is no record of you ever asking any questions

this is your first post?

something not computing there
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Old May 17th, 2008, 07:11 AM
  #31  
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Stfc wrote: “Who the hell is Bill Reilly? Oh, I've googled him, he's American so no I'm not.” Only Bill O’Reilly would try to throw us off the scent like that!

I have no interest in trying to refute your opinions – they speak for themselves.
 
Old May 17th, 2008, 07:15 AM
  #32  
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PalenQ wrote:

“but there is no record of you ever asking any questions

this is your first post?

something not computing there”

One more time – yes, this is a new screen name. I cancelled my old one months ago for reasons already described.

This is my first new post.
 
Old May 17th, 2008, 07:17 AM
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Well personally I don't use Fodor's travel guides these days (oops -- sorry, Fodor's! ). So I'm not sure how true the complaint is.

So the gist is that the guides used to have gay & lesbian travel advice, but now they are sanitized. If that's true, I do find this odd -- regardless of whether Fodor's is actually anti-gay.

As mentioned, gay and lesbian travelers are usually perceived to have more dispensable income for travel. It's a good business decision for Fodor's to keep this sort of information (and even expand on it). This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with equality for gays and lesbians. It just makes good business sense.

Anyway, personally I find guidebooks like Time Out or Wallpaper City guides more to my taste. A more traditional guidebook like Frommer's is easily accessible online. (By contrast I found the Fodor's website quite bad personally -- so I normally don't consult the Fodor's website, but obviously I consult this forum.) I look for something different that can give me a slightly different angle. In this sense, the Wallpaper City guides are quite quirky. It's more akin to reading a glossy magazine. I know that Fodor's (or Frommer's) can never be like them.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 07:22 AM
  #34  
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Good post 111op!
 
Old May 17th, 2008, 07:25 AM
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Yes, I did cancel my Fodor’s account a while ago because I got disgusted with people who just wanted to pick fights with other posters and not talk about the realities of travel.

so you say your changed your screen name now because of what? still don't compute to this dolt

When you cancel an account how is this done?

you send fodor's an e-mail saying cancel my screen name?

No you just don't open fodor's anymore and your screen name remains intact in case you want to come back

Thus why did you not return under your own old screen name? That is my question and your answers simply don't respond.

Why not use your old screen name or at least give it to prove that you are indeed a long-time Fodorite.

Oh well what do i care really. You do raise very valid points.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 07:28 AM
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T-R-O-L-L
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Old May 17th, 2008, 07:34 AM
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I would like to see the word Troll banned from Fodor's

the OP makes too many very valid sounding points to be a troll, at least in the context i take it

he/she has well documented it seems the lessening of gay content and makes a thoughtful case

that he/she may have ulterior motives and thus the secrecy of the new name does however raise suspicions of who the post is really aimed at and that to me may be a Fodor's Guidebooks insider airing complains on this forum for their own agenda.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 07:43 AM
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Well, Tom, as a gay man I find your post to be more than ridiculous. Yes, calling Fodor's anti-gay is quite confrontational and you either meant to get a rise out of people or you're quite naive.

I agree that Fodor's might include more on gay night spots (as does Lonely Planet--which I tend to use). You might have mentioned that on a thread here. However, your b*tchy rant only does your cause a disservice.

I've used this site for a long time now. You will find no more tolerant, open-minded community on the web.

Maybe I'm just a self-hating bigot for having these views, however.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 07:47 AM
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Anyway, what's so surprising if someone cancels his Fodor's account completely? There are people who prefer to do that. I have friends who canceled their Facebook accounts completely. Gone -- without a trace. They just felt more comfortable that way. They could have chosen to leave their accounts but not log on, but they chose not to. Surely it's their right.

And after all, Fodor's has been known to ban folks from the forum. So if the poster wants a little privacy, what's the big deal?

I'm failing to understand why this is a "crime."

And in any case, even if the original poster is lying, why is that so bad? I mean, since when do we expect complete honesty and sincerity on the net? I mean, that's very honorable, and I try to be accurate and sincere, but we know that we can't expect that of everyone.

As I said, if the gist of what the poster is saying is true, it doesn't make good business sense for Fodor's. But whether that makes Fodor's "anti-gay" is certainly up for discussion.

Having followed on this forum a couple of years, I tend to think that there's a herd or mob mentality. And if you don't like the message, you shoot the messenger. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but then of course, this is also common for dealings with people -- in real life or on the net.

So I guess then -- if you post, be aware that you can be criticized as well. If your skin is too thin, don't post.
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Old May 17th, 2008, 07:48 AM
  #40  
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Zeus wrote “T-R-O-L-L”

HA! HA!

I guess Chicken Hawk would have been too inside.

PalenQ:

Joe4212 gave the instructions on how to cancel screen names.

I canceled my old name because it was too close to my real name and I have not been participating in discussions because – as soon as I said something mildly controversial – the personal attacks began, just as they began here (I’m not necessarily indicating you). The old name was too close to my real name. Issues of identity-theft arise. The power of homophobia cannot be underestimated.

I am not giving out my old screen name, but I do not – nor have I ever – worked for Fodor’s. My disappointment stems from my affection for the series and the fact that it is now much worse than it used to be. Maybe they’ll switch back.
 

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