itsv

my sister, her hubby and 12 yr. old son are planning a trip to italy next summer. it will be the first trip in europe for hubby and nephew and my sister last went to europe 20 years ago on a contiki tour (in her wild youth days). She called asking me what she should do regarding her plans, they want to focus on florence so sis is thinking of booking the one week long rick steves "best of florence tour". the cost is $1400 per person for a total of $4200. The tour covers hotel (at the monna lisa), breakfasts and 6 other meals, some museums, tour guides and a one day excursion to sienna. having traveled on my own last summer with my kids and husband I told her the cost was too much and she should do it on her own. Sister's thoughts are that if everything is arranged for them, her hubby might enjoy himself more. reviews of the tour have been favorable, but to me that seems like too much money so what does everyone else think? Would you take the tour or do it on your own under the same circumstance? does anyone know of a cheaper tour?

Thanks all for the great tips. I have used them and really enjoyed them, itsv

l_jackson95814

I think that they could do it on their own. Although I don't have kids, I do have neices and nephews and can not imagine that they would do well on a tour. They may want to get an apartment so they have more space than a hotel room for 3. The train system is easy to use and may be of interest to a 12 year old. There are other posters who have experience traveling with children who I'm sure will weigh in.

WillTravel

Rick Steves tours are expensive but it seems almost everyone who takes them enjoys them (but they would obviously be a self-selecting group). I would be worried about the 12-year-old, though. Kids who are traveling, in my experience, do not like regimentation, schedules, and early wakeup calls.

crefloors

I took a tour, Globus, in 1999. We had a 13 year old girl in our group (with her parents of course) and she was just delightful. So ya' just never know.

ira

Hi itsy,

Does this tour include air fare? Is it for 6 nights?

If so, it is a good price. The Monna Lisa asks 285E/night for a triple.

isabel

If it does not include airfare (or actually even if it does) it's much more expensive than they could do on their own. If no airfare then they want $600 a day for the three of them. That's outrageous. There are tons of hotels in Florence with triple rooms for way less than that (which include breakfast). A round trip bus ticket to Siena costs €13. And Florence is so small and easy to get around that you don't need to use public transportation, you can walk just about anywhere you'd want to go.

The main value in a group tour (if there even is one) would be if you were planning on several different cities/towns - then there would be transporation between them, multiple hotels to book, etc. Then I could see why some people might be afraid to try it on their own. But this tour is one small city (and one easy day trip). Can't see the value at all.

Ryan

I look at organized tours this way - whose vacation do you want to have, your vacation or Rick Steves idea of what your vacation should be?

Florence is a city that can easily be navigated without a tour guide. The language barrier generally isn't an issue, tours are available at many of the major sites, and much has been written about the history and culture of the city.

But, at the end of the day, it's function of how comfortable they feel without the structure that an organized tour provides.

janebell

Although I am a fan of Rick Steves (I've found his books extremely helpful on my trips - won't leave home without them)I don't think I could ever justify the cost of one of his tours. I love to plan my trips and find it to be a large part of the fun. And besides, if you can get a good airfare, you can cut the cost of a trip in half. We just couldn't afford to travel that way.

Tell your sister to go online and find an apartment in Florence for a week. An apartment is far superior to staying in a hotel - more room, a kitchen to prepare breakfast in and, usually, much cheaper than a hotel room. It's definitely the way to go if travelling with children. Now that my son is older, we still prefer it. I haven't used the site yet but I hear sleepinitaly.com is good. Just do a search on Fodors for Apartments and Italy. You'll get lots of good tips.

Then she should get a few guidebooks (I always recommend Rick Steves) and plan out what she wants to see in Florence and pick out a daytrip or two. Try to pick out something that her son would be interested in even if it is not of interest to her or her husband. We have had the best experiences that way - things we would never have thought of doing turn out to be highlites.

It really really isn't that hard at all to go it alone and she will spend a fraction of the amount. I'm pretty sure the tour prices do not include airfare. I would be surprised if the land portion would exceed $1500-$2,000 for the week for 3 people if they go on their own. That's a significant difference from $4,300.

Finally, if their son is anything like ours, he would hate the regimentation. Very rare is the morning that we start before 8:30 or 9:00. A teenager without sleep is not a good travel companion. In fact, a husband without sleep is also not a good idea either. Leisurely mornings with coffee and pastries from a local bakery is part of the vacation.

Patrick

I personally wouldn't do the tour. I'm much happier doing it on my own and not being MADE to be in line for the bus at a certain time, etc. But each person has to decide.

A couple of years ago, I helped two friends (fairly newly married) with their first trip to Europe. I helped them with maps, guides, hotel planning, even restaurant recommendations and all. They had a miserable time, worrying about everything all the time. The next year they did a package tour and had a ball. They much preferred sharing the experiences with a bus load of other people and relying on someone to take care of every little issue for them. They're just the types to need someone else leading them by the hand. That's fine. You have to let them decide which they are more comfortable with.

janebell

Oh, and tell your sister to get tickets for the museums in advance - the Uffizi ets. I understand that this saves a ton of time by avoiding lines. This made a huge difference when we were in Paris. We bought a pass that admitted us to most of the museums and we just breezed by the lines.

I'm not sure how it works in Florence but I remember reading about obtaining tickets beforehand. Again check on this site and in Rick Steves guide - he has a guide specifically for Florence, I believe.

suze

The question to frequent Fodors posters of "would YOU take the tour?" will not necessarily be the answer to fit your sister. Because most here are frequent & reasonably experienced travelers who love planning. That doesn't describe your sister or her family.

Certainly there are cheaper tours, but I think Rick Steves would be worth the cost because of smaller groups and a more thoughtful itinerary. Also it would take the pressure off your sister (son and dad can blame the tour instead of mom if things aren't exactly to their liking!).

Christina

I think this might work out for your sister and she is right, it's possible her husband would really like it a lot. That family doesn't sound like they are comfortable doing it on their own, and a Rick Steves' group might be a lot of fun for them. You don't say the money is a real big issue to your sister, just that you think they can do it cheaper.

Well, of course they can, Rick Steves tours are very expensive. However, from what Ira said, that is a very nice hotel so them paying $600 a day for the family is not quite as outrageous if the hotel is worth $300 and they want that kind of accommodation. That's $100 pp per day for breakfast/dinner and sightseeing and they can certainly do it cheaper, but it could be worth it if they have a good time. It does include the excursion to Sienna, also.

The thing that would bother me would be the fare for the child. If they are getting a triple room, it isn't fair that they pay the same rate for the child as for an adult who would get half a double room. It doesn't include air, though, I know that. I just looked at it and that isn't even 7 nights, but only 6.

It is very expensive, although they might enjoy it. If that money isn't a big concern to them, I think it could be fine. I probably wouldn't pay it out of principle as I think it's a ripoff if they must share a triple and pay the same rate as other people sharing doubles. I think they should get a discount if they will have a triple room. I'd also find out if the husband really is keen on the tour or not.

If she's just looking for a tour, there are definitely cheaper ones than that.

One thing I thought of they might like is Untours -- this is a company where they rent you a local apartment and you are sort of on your own, but their is support from the company and some company functions, so you can meet others and get advice, etc. They do pricing for three, also, and as an example, their pricing for northern Tuscany area is about $2000 pp total for TWO weeks in peak season, or $6000, but that includes all RT air fare. In summer, I suspect that could be worth around $800 pp (if not more), so it would be cheaper than Rick Steves and would be for two weeks and they'd have an apartment and more flexibility. Maybe that's too independent for them, but it's a compromise

http://www.untours.com/untours/italy-tuscanynorth.asp

carcassone

Hi Itsv,

We just got back from France. I have 2 kids (12 & 10) and used Rick Steves' guide books extensively (but not exclusively) for our last two European trips: Italy=19 nts (Rome, Sorrento, Florence, Venice, Milan) and France=15 nts (Paris, Arles, Nice). The grand total for each trip, not including air, was $7,500 for Italy and $6,200 for France so it comes out to around $400 per day for our family of 4. (We are a fan of Quicken and categorize everything!)

When I say grand total, that includes EVERYTHING: hotels, train/metro/bus or car rental, meals, admissions, snacks (lots of ice-cream), souvenirs, etc. We mostly stayed in 2-3 stars hotels recommended in his books except in Paris where we rented an apartment.

As for planning, it was 2.5 weeks for Italy (a very last minute trip, the X'mas after 9/11) and 3-4 weeks for France (mostly hanging out on this board ).

Rick Steves has a way of writing guide books that makes you feel like he's talking to you. We noticed this when we did the "walks" from his books. Looking at his itinerary for Florence, I would think most of is covered in detailed in his Florence guide book. Of course this means lots of reading before/during the trip.

Personally, I enjoy the research part of a trip. I like the flexibility of doing something else when my kids are "museumed-out" or sick or weather is bad. We don't mind getting lost or getting on the wrong bus. My kids have been to 16 countries but never on organized tour so I can't say too much about that. But frankly, if we have to pay $200/person/day we would have never gone anywhere!

artlover

I think it just depends on your travel style. Some people (like most of us at Fodors) LOVE researching and planning the trip ourself, but for others, it's worth paying for someone else to do it. And I know people who have very good things to say about Rick Steves' tours. I like his guidebooks very much, but wouldn't take a tour, but if your sister is more comfortable, she and her family could take it and your could meet up at places if you want to do it the "Fodor's way".

rj007

I would suggest going to ricksteves.com and take a look at the Graffitti Wall where they will have customer comments on the Florence tour. This will provide you with some more info for your decision.

itsv

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and tips. It is really appreciated.

Ira and Isabel, the trip does not include airfare that is why i thought it was so much.

Janebell and Christina, money is an issue that is why I don't want to see my sister spend her precious euros unwisely, she has saved for this trip all year. Christina, thanks also for the untours tip, i'll look them.

I am like most of you on Fodors and love to research and travel on my own. It has been years since i have had a "bad" trip and last years trip with my children and husband in Europe was "magical". I had a wealthy friend go the same time as us with her five kids and they had a disaster of a trip because she did no research and had nothing planned out before hand. I told my sister tonite that I would do all the research for her (e.g. hotels, sites, personal tour guides, food etc) and price it for her and then compare it to Rick Steves and then allow her family to decide. I think if it was just my sister she would go for it on her own, but her husband has always been cautious and i think she is trying to avoid the potential for anything to happen.

so does anyone have a good recommendation for a hotel in florence that would be good for a first-timer (e.g. safe area, pleasant hotel etc.)?

thanks again for all the help, itsv

artlover

itsv,
What price range are you looking for?

itsv

sorry about that, a hotel for less than $250 a night for 3 people (sister,her hubby and 12 yr old son.) Just someplace easy for first timers to florence. when we went last year we stayed about a 10 minute drive from the ponte vecchio at margionlle charme (great place, very under the tuscan sun type) but you need a car or taxi to take you to downtown florence). for sis, i would like some place safe, comfortable and with a little charm, thanks everyone for the help, makes me wish I was going with her, Itsv

metellus

If he is going to take you to the restaurants he recommends in his books, avoid the the tour like the plague. The man can't tell the difference between decent food from sewage.

tamryn

Itsv-I can highly recommend the Relais Uffizi Hotel. They have a website if you search for it. We just stayed there this summer with our 3 kids and had a great suite so the kids slept in a different area. Very quick walk over to the Ponte Vecchio, but still easy walk to all the major sites (and the shopping markets)). Got great advice from manager and she made my dinner reservations for us. Overlooks Piazza della Signoria. Good luck!