Patrick

Powell, I'm curious what airline you were on. I was unaware that any airlines had seats in coach that convert to "flat out beds". In fact, I'm unaware of any that recline more than half way.

mrwunrfl

On the subject of leaning on seatbacks for balance/leverage: please don't do it. If you are getting in/out of a seat, then you can:
1) use the armrests in your row for balance
2) raise the armrests and scootch across the seats.

Dallas

mrwunrfl, "1) use the armrests in your row for balance 2) raise the armrests and scootch across the seatsquot; these are only possible if the person in front of you is not reclined as far as they can go.

Christina

I would like to be behind the people who think it is best to be considerate of how you are affecting others. I think jenray was rude and wrong in her behavior and dread sitting behind people like that.

The fact that seats mechanically "can" recline does not mean it is reasonable for someone to fully recline them whenever they want regardless of the seat pitch. Seats are just manufactured to be put into all kinds of planes and configurations, they aren't going to custommake them for each airline separtely. The fact that something is physically possible doesn't mean it is polite.

The real issue is what is reasonable and what isn't. I don't like jerks who fully recline during meals or all the time, either. A LOT of jerks who do this don't care about anyone but themselves and do it a lot of the time, even when they aren't sleeping. It does affect your ability to eat and takes away your space. So, I think of course it is reasonable to fully recline your seat on a transatlantic flight in the middle of the night after the meal when pretty much everyone is sleeping. That is reasonable and fine. It is NOT reasonable to fully recline your seat for the entire flight as soon as you get on board.

That is why jengray was inconsiderate and rude to expect to do whatever she wanted whenever she wanted, even outside normal times for those activities. If it were later on, okay, but they had just gotten on the plane and it was early. I don't understand what the offer about swapping seats was about, that wouldn't solve anything so what was the point of that offer.

RufusTFirefly

Some people must have huge elongated faces if the reclined seats bother their wine drinking. I a normal size person, and there's no possibility of a reclined seat being "in my face" unless I would purposely lean forward.

SeaUrchin

It is the people who relaase the latch and let the seat crash down onto whatever is behind them that is annoying.

I have had drinks spill from jerks in front of me letting their seats fall straight down. The seat top is right above your tray and of course it jars the tray.

I was taught manners and I think inching your seat down, at appropriate times, in front of someone is polite.

RufusTFirefly

I guess I've been luckier than some in 50 years of travel. I've never had a seat crash down to the extent it spilled something. I guess I would be upset if that happened to me.

SeaUrchin

Your remark about huge enlongated faces made me laugh, what a vision.

Reminds me of the joke, "the bartender walks over to the horse sitting at the bar and says, why the long face?"

I must get all the winners in front of me, must be my karma (I'm from LA!)

Snoopy

I'll go along with Richard, and waiting until after the meal service to SLOWLY recline a seat.

However, I don't sleep on overnight flights and it seems odd that I should be considered rude because I read and keep the light on most of the night. Using the logic that "the seat reclines, therefore it's my right to recline it" would seem to apply to the lights as well.

However, I find it very annoying when someone uses the back of my seat to pull themselves out of their own seat (unless, of course, it is an older person who has lost some leg strength).

I don't EVER fully recline my seat and my legs (I'm 6'4", 235lbs) prevent the seat in front of me from fully reclining on most airlines. So I TRY to book early enough to get the exit row. Whenever I've had a problem with seat space the flight attendants have ALWAYS finds a way to correct it.

In fairness, it may be because I am 6'4" 235lbs and often wear T-shirts (because they are given to me) from the Kenpo Karate school where I'm an instructor.

Snoopy

cynic

I have to admit that I was really shocked to see that many people feel that recliners are inconsiderate. For me, it's always been basically a given that the person in front of me is going to recline their seat. It just has never occured to me to think that my wish for three more inches of personal space trumps their wish to try to find a comfortable position in which to sit for several hours. Sure, reclining can make tall people behind you uncomfortable, but some of these new style seats can be very uncomfortable for shorter people when upright because it pushes the head and neck forward if you are short-torsoed. I try to avoid those types of seats in movie theaters too for precisely that reason. Is my discomfort less valuable than yours? Besides, the seats recline a couple of inches at most. They certainly don't end up "in my lap" as some people like to exagerrate and all the hyperbole certainly doesn't garner any added sympathy. Sure, it may make it more difficult to cross my legs or get my bag out from under the seat, but I fly Southwest a lot so I guess I just don't have high expectations. Flying, especially flying cheaply, is uncomfortable. I just try to roll with things. The only way that would ever change is if everyone boycotted airlines with poor legroom, but of course then everyone would end up paying more, so that would probably never happen. So, I am going to recline my seat and I'm not going to feel guilty about it. Go ahead and call me inconsiderate. I know that I am not. I recline my seat slowly and with warning. I make sure to not kick or jar the seat in front of me or rustle around in the seat pocket unnecessarily because I know the person sitting there can feel that. If the aisle seat gets up to use the restroom, I take that opportunity to go too so that I won't have to climb over and possibly wake that person up later. I don't talk loudly. I don't play my headphones excessively loud, nor do I blast the radio in my car or the tv in my condo. I don't take up more than one parking space or park so close or crooked that it makes it hard to park next to me. I let the guy with one item go in front of me when I have a full cart. Heck, it gives me time to fully prepare my check before I get to the front of the line. And most of all I don't answer and talk on my cell phone in movie theaters. So I find it exceedingly funny that anyone would label me an inconsiderate jerk simply because I choose to recline my seat. It's especially funny that it's the people who claim that others are being inconsiderate for reclining that are first to judge others and call them names. Besides anyone who has the childish, bad manners to "retaliate" by kicking the seat or playing tricks on the person in front of them has no room to talk about whether anyone else is rude. I was always taught to not sink to someone else's level and ignore rudeness and that is exactly what I do when someone chooses inappropriate ways to show their displeasure. Anyone who has the decency to approach me about their discomfort in an adult manner will find that I will try to work with them as much as I can, but it may mean talking to the flight attendant about moving you because although I look young and able-bodied, I actually have a bad back that causes me a great deal of pain if I sit upright in one position for too long. I don't think it's inconsiderate to not want to sit in agonizing pain so that I am not "in your face". I get to the airport really early to ensure that I don't get a seat that doesn't recline. Maybe you could try getting there really early to try to get an exit row or a bulkhead. Otherwise, try to relax.

keith_l

I'm a non-recliner. I'm about 5'10", and still find that if someone in front of me reclines then I can't move easily - added to the fact I usually (at the moment, anyway) have a toddler on my lap which means the person in front CAN'T recline, even if they want to!

The other question though - do you really get any more space? Think about it - the person in the front reclines, reducing your space, so you recline just as much - gaining back what you've lost - and so on to the back of the plane. The only person who actually gains is the person in the emergency exit aisle who started the whole fight off, and the only loser is the poor sod at the back who can't recline anyway!

cynic

Keith,
at least in my case, it's not a question of trying to get more room, it has more to do with the angle of my body in the seat. The lean takes pressure off my back and hips. If I had to pick extra legroom or being able to recline more, I would pick being able to recline more. Heck, on really long flights I wouldn't object to being stuffed into one of those tiny, coffin-like sleeping tubes that are stacked on top of eachother like I read about in Japan if it meant that I could lie flat. There are people who would rather have the extra space instead. To each his own.

Kavey

Cynic, I'm in agreement with you. I'm 32 but I do have arthritic hips as well as some serious back issues. I actually find that reclining the seat partially rather than fully (on most airlines) is the most comfortable position for me.

I do agree with folks who suggest showing some courtesy - a) warning before reclining or reclining slowly and b) returning the seat to upright during meal times.

My husband is 6 foot 6 inches tall and most of that extra height is in his legs - they're like mutated or something! But, although it's very uncomfortable when someone reclines the seat infront of him, we appreciate that it is their prerogative, having paid for the seat just as we have.

We try and ask for an emergency exit seat to give him legroom. Although I appreciate these can't be assigned until staff have ascertained that the passenger is able-bodied it bugs me that so few airlines will even agree to put a provisional assignment on their system in advance. And we don't even insist on sitting together - I'm happy for him to get the legroom and I'll sit behind!!

cynic

What's really unfortunate is that most airlines save those extra legroom seats for their priveledged flyers instead of giving them to the people that need them the most like your husband. Instead of being mad at recliners (who could be in just as much discomfort sitting up as the guy with a seat reclined in his knees) I would be mad at the airlines who cause these problems. Of course, this will always be a problem until everyone that wants extra room stops shopping for the lowest fare and starts only flying carriers with the greatest legroom.

bmac123

I’m surprised by how many flyers feel that passenger in the row in front of them feel they have the right to determine that passengers privilege to recline their seat. I am even more shocked to see there is a product “Knee Defenders” that passengers feel they have a right to use (if someone put those on my seat I assure you they would be promptly removed). Everyone must attempt to be polite, but if you can’t fit into the seat without allowing the seat in front of you to be reclined you must use alternative options. Upgrade to first or business class, get to the airport VERY early to secure exit row or bulkhead seats. COMPLAIN TO THE AIRLINE, NOT THE PASSENGER INFRONT OF YOU! I personally have never had any problems with other passengers, but I did overhear a couple passengers complaining from time to time. 100% of the time the flight attendant had told the passenger complaining that EVERY passenger has the RIGHT to recline their seat. This seems to be a case were otherwise polite people take their anger with the airline not providing what they consider enough space out on some passenger trying to make the best of the area they purchased.

cadillac1234

I had an encounter once with a guy who was PO'd because I leaned my seat back. In a not too polite manner he told me he was too tall and coach didn't give him enough room. Maybe if the guy wasn't such a jerk initially I may have tried to find a common ground.

I told him he should either file a petition with the FAA or the airline or upgrade next time and proceded to lean my seat back. He banged on the back of seat, raised a huge fuss and called the flight attendent who agreed with me.

I know going into the flight that seats in front of me recline, children might cry and the food will be probably bad. I make alternative plans or I go in expecting these problems. I don't expect the world to suddenly change because I want it to.

I work my travel plans around the airfares to be able to fly Saver business class on United as well as put a lot of effort into finding a fare. Poor pre-planning or unrealistic expectations on another individual's part is not my problem.

surfmom

hey, look at the bright side... at least it wasn't a BO issue

jay

I actually had a guy in first class ask me not to put my seat back on a US flight. Of course he was the fattest human being in the world. He was nice about it so I complied.

CYNCITYFAN

A BO issue?

LOL

That is bad etiquette!

Honestly, if you cannot get on to a plane w/out already knowing that the seats recline a bit, and will, then you have not been on a plane in a while. I deal with a seat in front of me if it is reclined. If I want to sleep, I will recline. There is no issue for me here. If someone makes it an issue, I'll gladly point out a flight attendant.

Never should the seat be reclined during take off or landing.

If the biggest headache is a reclined seat in front of me, my trip will be the best ever (or maybe the most boring?)

The real etiquette issues are ppl coughing and sneezing with out covering their face holes, ppl who "eliminate" (not my preffered word to describe it) all over the lavatories, drunk fools who manage to keep drinking, ppl who carry on a ton of cargo, the ppl who feel the need to slam the overhead bins as if they were a heavy car door, and ppls brain cells that may have shifted during flight.

Rip12

There are certain immutable laws of physics -- at least as they apply in a practical way on airplanes. One teaches that two things cannot occupy the same space at the same time.

For example, if a plane has 100 passenger seats and there are 101 paying-passenger rear ends looking to fly on that plane, someone gets bumped. Similarly, if the person behind you has such long legs that there is no room into which your seatback can be reclined (notice, I wrote "can", not "may&quot then as long as that person remains seated in his/her seat, you will not be able to recline.

I am not referring here to people who object to recliners because they (the decliners) want lots of room. Rather, I am referring to people who sit normally in their assigned seat and whose legs fill the available space between their own seatback and the upright seatback in front of them. Complain all you want to an FA about your inability to recline, but unless the laws of physics can be changed mid-flight, you won't be _able_ to recline. And, repeated efforts to push your seatback backwards does nothing more than increase the chance that you will inflict injury on the person behind you, which would be bad on a number of levels.

Finally, consider that if reclining really is a "right", then the last row of seats would be far enough away from the rear wall so that reclining would be possible and the row in front of the exit doors would similarly be located so that its seats could be reclined without violating FAA safety rules. Or, as an alternative, those non-reclining seats would be sold at a discount – but they are not. Bloviators will bloviate. But, try to be courteous to people with long legs. After all, you may want our help from one of us getting your bag into and out of the overhead compartment or getting that last box of your favorite cereal off of the top shelf at Safeway.