Minooka1145

I'm scrolling through your trip report and almost at the point of saying SCREW PORTUGAL! TAKE ME TO REMOTEST PLACE ANYWHERE, lol. I too detest crowds. We happened to be in Glastonbury Festival without planning on it. My objective when I am stuck in crowds is to just know where I am going and hone in on it and just GO. My husband had to grab my hand and slow me down because I kept getting way ahead and swallowed up by the crowd. Thankfully few people who were at the Festival cared much about the other sites so it was tolerable once we were away from the main drag of festival-ers.

HelenaFatima

Monsanto:

There is the Monsanto Park, in Lisbon, absolutely adorable, it's like you are in another world. You can do a lot of things there, Oh, I remember seeing the dogs competitions, or just wandering there...

And there is Monsanto, an hystorical village middle Portugal.

Well, two different things with the same name.

Maribel

if wide boulevards don't appeal, then Chiado with its more narrow and steep streets is a better fit. Or Príncipe Real, a trendy, up-and-coming district, also hilly. No wide boulevards there. Both, however, have "boutique", as in small hotels with charm, as is your booked Le Consulat, with only 20 rooms, housed in the former Brazilian consulate building.

For western Spain, near the Portuguese border, Extremadura, the "land of the conquistadors", would be a nice trip.
You can mostly have it all to yourselves. We never find it crowded---Cáceres, Trujillo (Pizarro's birthplace), Mérida (Roman ruins), Plasencia, Jerte Valley (cherry blossom festival in late March), Guadalupe, Hervás with its ancient Judería, Grandilla, Monfragüe National Park.....lots to explore there.

And also south, towards Sevilla, in the Sierra de Aracena with off the beaten path towns of Aracena, Alájar, Linares, Almonaster la Real. Never crowded.

Faedus

I'm not going to add specific advice to the numerous preceding comments; and it's quite possible that you already know what I'm about to write -- but in case you don't, be aware that for a professional urban planner, like your husband, the Baixa neighborhood of Lisbon may be of historic interest. After the 1755 earthquake, the central part of Lisbon was completely redone, in rational "Enlightenment Age" style, under the supervision of Sebastião Carvalho (usually known as the Marquis of Pombal), one of the king's ministers. The sight, and history, of the neighborhood may interest an urban planner.

Minooka1145

Thank you! We wander everywhere and as long as he doesn't bore me with all sorts of urban design and obscure architecture talk, he can take it all in, lol.

Minooka1145

Sorry, I actually meant the historical village! I think I have decided to skip it for this trip even though it looks charming and is calling my name. I just can't see how to make to work in the time we have.

Minooka1145

Here's the latest itinerary I've put together. I'm just struggling with factoring in the drive times etc.

Nights 1-4 Lisbon
Nights 5-6 Evora (arrive later in day, include seeing Estremoz, maybe Elvas if we have extra time or seeing en route to Marvao)
Nights 7-8 Marvao (arrive in afternoon. Possible include trip to Castelo Branco.
Nights 9-10 Coimbra
Nights 11-14 Porto (skipping staying in Braga and Gimaraes or maybe staying in one instead.... but the general area for 4 nights)
Night 15-16 Tomar (as a base to see Bahala, Alcobala, Obidos, Possibly Fatima, Possibly trip to one of the coastal areas or Illha de Berlenga)
Nights 18-19 Sintra
Night 20 Lisbon


Any general comments or suggestions? I need to get rooms booked and keep rethinking the schedule.

Melnq8

Sorry about that, didn't mean to take the shine off your proposed trip, but ours was definitely an eye-opener. We enjoyed Porto more than any place else on our 22 night trip. I can't quite put my finger on why, but we both really enjoyed it. We could have done with one night less in Evora (we had three), and that's coming from someone who dislikes stays of less than three nights.

It's the knowing where you're going that's part of the problem - we found Lisbon rather difficult to navigate - the neighborhoods just sort of run together so it's hard to distinguish one from another as a first time visitor - we gave up early on with finding specific restaurants, etc - just about the time we had everything figured out, it was time to move on. Navigation isn't my strong suit, but my husband is a whiz, so when he's confused, you know it's confusing. All the hills...the streets that cut off at strange angles...it makes navigation a challenge.

As nice as Liberdade is, it just seemed like expensive hotels and shops to us - any place that commands a 250 euro cover charge for their rooftop bar is a bit precious - and at least one of the street drink venues added a gratuity (although nominal by US standards) for the privilege of having a drink at one of their outdoor tables. We also saw beggars on Liberdade, albeit some distance from where the cops were positioned, as if there were an invisible line separating them from the posh hotels and expensive cars and motorcycles. Liberdade is definitely well patrolled, lol.

Minooka1145

Here's what we have decided on! Of course, my husband may now need to either leave me for a day or 2 to fly to a client meeting in the middle east or we are going to have to push everything back. This is pretty much every single vacation we've ever taken together so it's not unusual but is frustrating to have to shift hotels or spend the day on my own. Yes, I've traveled by myself a lot but it's still nice to have someone else by your side. We've got a lot to see but the nice thing with having a car is that if we need to take a break we can skip some things entirely or make a new plan.

Nights 1-4 Lisbon
Nights 5-6 Evora (including seeing the monoliths, Monsarez, Estremoz, Arraiolos, Elvas)
Nights 7-8 Marvao (including Castelo de Vide, Monsanto, Castelo Branco)
Nights 9-10 Coimbra (possibly driving through Lousa or Piodao en route depending on how we are feeling; possibly the Bucaco Forest)
Nights 11-14 Porto (including trips to Braga, Guimares which I'd love to spend the night in but it will probably feel good to not have to pack and move for a few nights)
Night 15-16 Alcobaca (as a base to see Bahala, Tomar, Obidos, Possibly Fatima; possibly driving through Aveiro en route; possibly the Almoural Castle)
Nights 18-19 Sintra (possible heading to the coast for a look-see en route)
Night 20 Lisbon

HelenaFatima

Minooka, maybe I'm not looking well, but wich month are you doing your trip?

Maribel

I believe Minooka is planning to arrive May 15, correct?

Minooka1145

Yes, we are arriving on May 15th. Hotels are booked pretty heavily in Porto so I know there's going to be lots of travelers! I'm going to comb through previous posts regarding recommendations for restaurants and other food related things. I'm going to try my best to do a trip report but I'm not taking my laptop so it may not actually happen despite my intentions!

realgirl58

Have you looked at airbnbs in Lisbon? There are some still available that seem nice and are reasonably priced.

HelenaFatima

Ok, so Minooka, if you are arriving 15th May I believe your itinerary, although a litlle bit rushed, is possible. Next week in Porto is going to be "hell". The same between 7th and 13th of May in Braga, between 12 and 17th in Lisbon, and between 20th and 27th May in Coimbra. And so on. Forget about cruises, tourists, etc., Those are the weeks before university tests, and our students get absolutely crazy, they don't sleep for 7 days. And they make a lot of noise.

But even so, I believe May would be better than June, that is the month of the Saints, when we all (except the poor students) get nuts with sardines festivals (we only eat sardines between beg of June and end September, when the fishermen are allowed to fish them). The Saints: São João in Porto 24th June, Santo António in Lisbon 13th June, São Pedro at 29th June... Portuguese get completely crazy, and I cannot imagine what it will be this year, after 2 years without the festivities. I can tell what it used to be in 2019 and before, at Porto: city center closed at 16H on the 23rd June, everyone in the streets, even outside Porto, lots of fireworks, smell of sardines being grilled all over, etc.

And last bot not least, untill 13rd May there are a lot of pilgrims for the religious festivities of Fátima (that is 13rd of May).

All in all, I thing your shedulled time is ok.

Helena

evacenteno1311

Has anyone stayed at the Valverde hotel in Lisbon? Would you switch to the Hotel Avenida Palace? Also, I detest crowds and will skip all tourist traps and things if I can. I just want to enjoy being in Portugal. We will be in Porto, Lisbon and Algarve. Duoro Valley is planned. A day stop in Coimbra as we drive through. Any suggestions of how to just enjoy and not run around seeing every sight?

Maribel

I haven't stayed at the much smaller Valverde but have had lunch there and seen the interiors. (We stay right above it, right off the Avenida da Liberdade.) It does have a small and inviting terrace with pool for cooling off in the torrid summer heat.
The Avenida Palace is right next to the Rossio train station, directly on a busy square and transportation hub, so the area can get very crowded, yet the hotel itself is the city's old European style "grande dame", an oasis in the city's cacophony, and gets very solid reviews, attracting a loyal, repeat clientele. Many Fodorites have enjoyed it and our friends have as well.
It has evening piano music in the lobby-lounge open to all.