Fine tuning upcoming trip
Nov 18th, 2018 | 07:49 AM
#1
Original Poster
Joined: Jan 2003
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Fine tuning upcoming trip
We leave for Switzerland, Austria and Germany in less than a week.
Thought I'd throw our itinerary out there just in case anyone has any suggestions on things we shouldn't miss. Would appreciate suggestions on walking tracks in particular (yeah, I know, its off season).
Flims, Switzerland - seven nights. We plan to use Flims as a base for exploring the surrounding area. We've visited Flims previously, but only as day trips from Ilanz. We realize there will be closures this early in the season, and we have no engraved-in-stone plans, but hope to do some winter walking (including walk to/from Falera).
We might take the bus to Vals (strictly for the views and lunch, not expecting any tracks to be open, but that would be a bonus), and I suspect the thermal baths will also be closed. We might take the bus to Obersaxon, have at least one meal at our favorite restaurant in Ilanz and possibly walk the Culinary Trail from Flims (not a priority as we've done it before and the restaurants won't be open). And well, that's about it so far. We'll definitely head to the tourist office to investigate potential walking tracks, and I have a list of restaurants that will be open (looking forward to Capuns and Pizokels).
Zuoz, Switzerland - six nights. We plan to use Zuoz as a base for exploring the Upper Engadin. We're somewhat familiar with the area, having spent several nights in Samedan on a previous trip, but this will be the first time we've based in Zuoz. I understand that the cable car to Corvatsch will be open, but there are no walking tracks up there. I have a list of what few cable cars will be open, unsure about trails they might lead to.
I've found some promising walking tracks out of Pontresina, including the winter walk into the Val Roseg and I've learned that the restaurant there will be open during our stay. They have a dessert buffet (!) but unclear if it will be offered while we're there. I also have my eye on the walk from Morteratsch Station to the glacier, assuming it's open. I've found a couple of Advent Markets (Glatschin and St Mortiz Dorf) that are on during our stay as well as an Advent Concert in St Moritz, so we'll probably spend a day there.
We'll purchase Half Fare Cards for the Swiss portion of our trip.
Seefeld - five nights. Our plan here is to purchase bus/train tickets at the Zuoz train station, using our Half Fare Cards to get us as far as Landeck, Austria, and then I believe the fare from there is 19 Euro each. Our loose plan for Seefeld is to visit the Advent Market in Leutasch, make a day trip to Innsbruck for general sightseeing and to visit a market or two there (I see the Patscherkofei gondola will also be operating, but haven't worked out the logistics yet).
We'd also like to visit Hall in Tyrol, but I've just this minute realized I've not worked out those details yet either. Possible to combine it with Innsbruck? I've searched high and low for Advent Concerts - there is a three day music festival in Seefeld during our stay, but unfortunately, we'll only be there for part of it, so I've not purchased tickets. I've been unable to find any church concerts. I have a list of potential walking tracks in the Seefeld area as well, but haven't zeroed in on anything specific yet.
St Gilgen - five nights. Our plan here is to purchase ERT tickets and use regional trains to get to Kitzbuhel, where we'll store our luggage for a few hours, explore Kitzbuhel, have lunch, then finish the journey to St Gilgen (taking bus 150 from Salzburg).
While in St Gilgen we hope to take the Schafbergbahn from St Wolfgang (which operates Thurs-Sunday during Advent) up to the Alm for some winter walking and hopefully lunch at a mountain restaurant. We also plan to take the Zwolferhorn lift above St Gilgen to walk the 5 km loop, perhaps take the ferry between Wolfgang-Strobal-St Gilgen and spend some time at the Advent Markets.
We also hope to take a day trip to Hallstatt and we're considering a day trip to Salzburg to visit the Hohensalzburg Fortress and the Advent Market there (Friday-Sunday).
I've just this minute realized that my days are full! Somewhere in there I'd like to fit in some Advent Music - I've found a men's choir in St Wolfgang, a brass band in Salzburg and Advent music in St Gilgen, but of course they're all on the same night, so will have to play that one by ear.
Munich - two nights. We'll purchase bus tickets from St Gilgen to Salzburg, then purchase a Bayern Ticket to Munich. I've made reservations at our favorite Indian restaurant for the first night. We'll probably spend the following day at various Christmas Markets, eat, drink and be merry.
And that, in a nutshell is the plan.
Any suggestions, tips or must-see and dos I might have missed are greatly appreciated.
Thought I'd throw our itinerary out there just in case anyone has any suggestions on things we shouldn't miss. Would appreciate suggestions on walking tracks in particular (yeah, I know, its off season).
Flims, Switzerland - seven nights. We plan to use Flims as a base for exploring the surrounding area. We've visited Flims previously, but only as day trips from Ilanz. We realize there will be closures this early in the season, and we have no engraved-in-stone plans, but hope to do some winter walking (including walk to/from Falera).
We might take the bus to Vals (strictly for the views and lunch, not expecting any tracks to be open, but that would be a bonus), and I suspect the thermal baths will also be closed. We might take the bus to Obersaxon, have at least one meal at our favorite restaurant in Ilanz and possibly walk the Culinary Trail from Flims (not a priority as we've done it before and the restaurants won't be open). And well, that's about it so far. We'll definitely head to the tourist office to investigate potential walking tracks, and I have a list of restaurants that will be open (looking forward to Capuns and Pizokels).
Zuoz, Switzerland - six nights. We plan to use Zuoz as a base for exploring the Upper Engadin. We're somewhat familiar with the area, having spent several nights in Samedan on a previous trip, but this will be the first time we've based in Zuoz. I understand that the cable car to Corvatsch will be open, but there are no walking tracks up there. I have a list of what few cable cars will be open, unsure about trails they might lead to.
I've found some promising walking tracks out of Pontresina, including the winter walk into the Val Roseg and I've learned that the restaurant there will be open during our stay. They have a dessert buffet (!) but unclear if it will be offered while we're there. I also have my eye on the walk from Morteratsch Station to the glacier, assuming it's open. I've found a couple of Advent Markets (Glatschin and St Mortiz Dorf) that are on during our stay as well as an Advent Concert in St Moritz, so we'll probably spend a day there.
We'll purchase Half Fare Cards for the Swiss portion of our trip.
Seefeld - five nights. Our plan here is to purchase bus/train tickets at the Zuoz train station, using our Half Fare Cards to get us as far as Landeck, Austria, and then I believe the fare from there is 19 Euro each. Our loose plan for Seefeld is to visit the Advent Market in Leutasch, make a day trip to Innsbruck for general sightseeing and to visit a market or two there (I see the Patscherkofei gondola will also be operating, but haven't worked out the logistics yet).
We'd also like to visit Hall in Tyrol, but I've just this minute realized I've not worked out those details yet either. Possible to combine it with Innsbruck? I've searched high and low for Advent Concerts - there is a three day music festival in Seefeld during our stay, but unfortunately, we'll only be there for part of it, so I've not purchased tickets. I've been unable to find any church concerts. I have a list of potential walking tracks in the Seefeld area as well, but haven't zeroed in on anything specific yet.
St Gilgen - five nights. Our plan here is to purchase ERT tickets and use regional trains to get to Kitzbuhel, where we'll store our luggage for a few hours, explore Kitzbuhel, have lunch, then finish the journey to St Gilgen (taking bus 150 from Salzburg).
While in St Gilgen we hope to take the Schafbergbahn from St Wolfgang (which operates Thurs-Sunday during Advent) up to the Alm for some winter walking and hopefully lunch at a mountain restaurant. We also plan to take the Zwolferhorn lift above St Gilgen to walk the 5 km loop, perhaps take the ferry between Wolfgang-Strobal-St Gilgen and spend some time at the Advent Markets.
We also hope to take a day trip to Hallstatt and we're considering a day trip to Salzburg to visit the Hohensalzburg Fortress and the Advent Market there (Friday-Sunday).
I've just this minute realized that my days are full! Somewhere in there I'd like to fit in some Advent Music - I've found a men's choir in St Wolfgang, a brass band in Salzburg and Advent music in St Gilgen, but of course they're all on the same night, so will have to play that one by ear.
Munich - two nights. We'll purchase bus tickets from St Gilgen to Salzburg, then purchase a Bayern Ticket to Munich. I've made reservations at our favorite Indian restaurant for the first night. We'll probably spend the following day at various Christmas Markets, eat, drink and be merry.
And that, in a nutshell is the plan.
Any suggestions, tips or must-see and dos I might have missed are greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Melnq8; Nov 18th, 2018 at 07:57 AM.
Nov 18th, 2018 | 08:34 AM
#2
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 26
I am excited for your holiday and hope you will report out! The family voted down Seefeld this year for Christmas, so we are off to Paris. I am not complaining (too much.) I would love to hear about how your time in Seefeld, and all of the winter wandering works out!
Gute Reise!
Gute Reise!
Nov 19th, 2018 | 10:16 AM
#4
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,996
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Hi Mel! 
I am green of envy. Or not - because I wouldn't want to miss the Christmas/Advent markets, concerts, traditions in my region, not even for Switzerland! Btw, we got a bit snow yesterday. ;-) A couple of thoughts.
Why do you think the thermal baths in Vals will be closed? As far as I know they are open Wednesday through Sunday 11 am to 8 pm. You can book in advance through their website. Very pricey, though. Another very scenic valley and totally off the beaten path is Safien valley, parallel (to the east) of Vals. You will probably the only guests, but I know you won't mind. Thalkirch and Safien-Platz are the largest villages (haha!) Maybe have a look at Chur, too. Or take the little gondola from Rhäzüns to Feldis, another charming small village with great views. A few walking trails will be accessible around the village, I am sure.
Zuoz - quite many walking trails are open at the moment. Actually, open and closed are relative. As long as there is no snow on the ground, even the summer trails might be accessible. (But the Upper Engadine already has a bit snow.) There are nice trails to S-chanf (down the valley) and from there into Val Susauna to the hamlet Chapella. From there walk to Cinuos-chel (train station) and take the train back. Close by is restaurant/hotel La Veduta (excellent Capuns!) Home | Hotel Veduta
Definitely check out the Roseg valley! Maybe the horse-drawn carriages already run. I explored this valley by foot, x-country skis and carriage, in both summer and winter. It is fantastic - the mountain view from Hotel Restaurant Roseggletscher is stunning. Yes, their dessert buffet ... is heaven on earth.
Signal cable car and Corviglia funicular will open during your stay. There are nice hiking trails between St. Moritz, Suvretta hill, Chantarella station of the funicular and Signal. It is a sunny area, too. On the shady side of the valley is the otherwise very scenic hiking trail from Sils-Maria along the lake to Surlej and from there over a little hill with the ski jumps to St. Moritz Bad. The trail from Pontresina through Stazer Wald (woods) passing the little lake Staz with restaurant (open?) to Lake St. Moritz is also worth the time. If you have some more time, visit the Fex Valley. It is one of my favourites and always worth a(nother) visit. Pensiun Restaurant Crasta starts the winter season on 5 December - too late for you?
For the Landeck to Seefeld trip use vvt.at - I found connections through Innsbruck for 16.80 Euro and taking 1:43 hrs (one change.) Seefeld has plenty of nice walking trails (often parallel to the x-country skiing tracks) that are often in the woods. Do not combine Hall in Tirol with Innsbruck, the latter has way too much to offer. And Hall isn't small, either. Schwaz is another town worth seeing. Stubai valley is another option. There is a cute tram from Innsbruck (starts in I.-Wilten, southern outskirts) to Fulpmes, a scenic ride. Or take the bus. The skiing area Schlick above Fulpmes will be open and has some nice winter hiking trails: https://www.stubai.at/en/skiing-reso...winter-hiking/
Have fun!
I am green of envy. Or not - because I wouldn't want to miss the Christmas/Advent markets, concerts, traditions in my region, not even for Switzerland! Btw, we got a bit snow yesterday. ;-) A couple of thoughts.
Why do you think the thermal baths in Vals will be closed? As far as I know they are open Wednesday through Sunday 11 am to 8 pm. You can book in advance through their website. Very pricey, though. Another very scenic valley and totally off the beaten path is Safien valley, parallel (to the east) of Vals. You will probably the only guests, but I know you won't mind. Thalkirch and Safien-Platz are the largest villages (haha!) Maybe have a look at Chur, too. Or take the little gondola from Rhäzüns to Feldis, another charming small village with great views. A few walking trails will be accessible around the village, I am sure.
Zuoz - quite many walking trails are open at the moment. Actually, open and closed are relative. As long as there is no snow on the ground, even the summer trails might be accessible. (But the Upper Engadine already has a bit snow.) There are nice trails to S-chanf (down the valley) and from there into Val Susauna to the hamlet Chapella. From there walk to Cinuos-chel (train station) and take the train back. Close by is restaurant/hotel La Veduta (excellent Capuns!) Home | Hotel Veduta
Definitely check out the Roseg valley! Maybe the horse-drawn carriages already run. I explored this valley by foot, x-country skis and carriage, in both summer and winter. It is fantastic - the mountain view from Hotel Restaurant Roseggletscher is stunning. Yes, their dessert buffet ... is heaven on earth.
Signal cable car and Corviglia funicular will open during your stay. There are nice hiking trails between St. Moritz, Suvretta hill, Chantarella station of the funicular and Signal. It is a sunny area, too. On the shady side of the valley is the otherwise very scenic hiking trail from Sils-Maria along the lake to Surlej and from there over a little hill with the ski jumps to St. Moritz Bad. The trail from Pontresina through Stazer Wald (woods) passing the little lake Staz with restaurant (open?) to Lake St. Moritz is also worth the time. If you have some more time, visit the Fex Valley. It is one of my favourites and always worth a(nother) visit. Pensiun Restaurant Crasta starts the winter season on 5 December - too late for you?
For the Landeck to Seefeld trip use vvt.at - I found connections through Innsbruck for 16.80 Euro and taking 1:43 hrs (one change.) Seefeld has plenty of nice walking trails (often parallel to the x-country skiing tracks) that are often in the woods. Do not combine Hall in Tirol with Innsbruck, the latter has way too much to offer. And Hall isn't small, either. Schwaz is another town worth seeing. Stubai valley is another option. There is a cute tram from Innsbruck (starts in I.-Wilten, southern outskirts) to Fulpmes, a scenic ride. Or take the bus. The skiing area Schlick above Fulpmes will be open and has some nice winter hiking trails: https://www.stubai.at/en/skiing-reso...winter-hiking/
Have fun!
Nov 19th, 2018 | 01:39 PM
#5
Original Poster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,146
Likes: 83
Hi Ingo!
Glad to hear you got snow!
I'm finding the Vals thermal pool site hard to navigate. When I pick a date and time frame on the calendar, CHF 0 comes up. I guess I assumed that meant they were closed. Where are you finding the prices?
I just stumbled across this article which you might find interesting:
https://www.dezeen.com/2017/05/11/pe...estroyed-news/
I see there's a thermal pool in Samedan, which is only 10 minutes or so from Zuoz, so that's a possibility if we feel the need for a soak.
<<As long as there is no snow on the ground, even the summer trails might be accessible.>>
Exactly! No one (except you) seems to understand that's what I mean when I ask about walking tracks - even visitor's centers! They think winter walking = groomed trails. Period.
You given me much to look into and think about. I already worry that we're not going to have enough time. Thanks for the heads up on Hall in Tirol, I didn't realize it was so big.
And thanks as always for the walking tips. I've printed out your suggestions and they've been added to the pile.
Glad to hear you got snow!
I'm finding the Vals thermal pool site hard to navigate. When I pick a date and time frame on the calendar, CHF 0 comes up. I guess I assumed that meant they were closed. Where are you finding the prices?
I just stumbled across this article which you might find interesting:
https://www.dezeen.com/2017/05/11/pe...estroyed-news/
I see there's a thermal pool in Samedan, which is only 10 minutes or so from Zuoz, so that's a possibility if we feel the need for a soak.
<<As long as there is no snow on the ground, even the summer trails might be accessible.>>
Exactly! No one (except you) seems to understand that's what I mean when I ask about walking tracks - even visitor's centers! They think winter walking = groomed trails. Period.
You given me much to look into and think about. I already worry that we're not going to have enough time. Thanks for the heads up on Hall in Tirol, I didn't realize it was so big.
And thanks as always for the walking tips. I've printed out your suggestions and they've been added to the pile.
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Nov 20th, 2018 | 08:52 AM
#8
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,499
Likes: 0
Therme Vals:
If you try to book for a certain day and a certain time, you get the entry fees, for exemple for tomorrow:
Fine tuning upcoming trip
(Adults 80 CHF, kids 52 CHF)
I suppose you know the thermal baths (bogns) of Scuol very well. May be a little cheaper.
The former Swiss iron ore mine of Gonzen (Sargans) can be visited on December 8th. Bergwerk Gonzen
The Rhetian railway offers every Friday a culinary event in old dining cars running between Chur and Arosa (and back). Similar offer between Chur and Disentis on Dec 6th. A Fondue Car iss operating on Dec 1st (it remains close to the station of Chur all the time).
https://www.rhb.ch/de/freizeit-ausfl...e-genussreisen
The sunny hiking trails between Lake Poschiavo - Viano - Roncaiola - Tirano are often free of snow in winter.
The sunny trail (small agricultural road) from Lavin via Guarda - Ardez to Ftan is open all the year round.
For other trails:
https://scuol.engadin.com/en/activit.../winter-hiking
https://www.engadin.stmoritz.ch/wint...winter-hiking/
If you try to book for a certain day and a certain time, you get the entry fees, for exemple for tomorrow:
Fine tuning upcoming trip
(Adults 80 CHF, kids 52 CHF)
I suppose you know the thermal baths (bogns) of Scuol very well. May be a little cheaper.
The former Swiss iron ore mine of Gonzen (Sargans) can be visited on December 8th. Bergwerk Gonzen
The Rhetian railway offers every Friday a culinary event in old dining cars running between Chur and Arosa (and back). Similar offer between Chur and Disentis on Dec 6th. A Fondue Car iss operating on Dec 1st (it remains close to the station of Chur all the time).
https://www.rhb.ch/de/freizeit-ausfl...e-genussreisen
The sunny hiking trails between Lake Poschiavo - Viano - Roncaiola - Tirano are often free of snow in winter.
The sunny trail (small agricultural road) from Lavin via Guarda - Ardez to Ftan is open all the year round.
For other trails:
https://scuol.engadin.com/en/activit.../winter-hiking
https://www.engadin.stmoritz.ch/wint...winter-hiking/
Nov 20th, 2018 | 09:25 AM
#9
Joined: Jan 2003
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Yes, it is 80 CHF per person for the Thermal bath in Vals. Outrageous! Samedan has indeed a small, intimate spa - have not been yet, but heard good things about it. The public indoor pool in St. Moritz Bad (Ovaverva) was reconstructed lately and turned into a nice, modern pool and sauna/steambath. Even nice IMO is the Bellavita in Pontresina - fun area with indoor/outdoor pools plus spa area with saunas/steambath etc. Admissions are much less than in Vals! 26 CHF for pool + spa in Pontresina, I think.
Nov 20th, 2018 | 11:48 AM
#10
Original Poster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,146
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Thank you neckervd! Looks like it's a no on those 80 CHF thermal baths, a bit rich for my blood. You're right, Scuol is much cheaper.
We've walked many of the trails from Scuol; Lavin via Guarda - Ardez being one of them. I'll look into your other suggestions, though, thank you!
Ingo - 26 CHF is much more up my alley!
We've walked many of the trails from Scuol; Lavin via Guarda - Ardez being one of them. I'll look into your other suggestions, though, thank you!
Ingo - 26 CHF is much more up my alley!
Nov 21st, 2018 | 05:52 AM
#13
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,499
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Thanks Melnq8 for the feedback. I suppose you know Flims/Flem and Falera/Fellers as well as the Engiadina Bassa much better than anybody in this forum. Therefore it's rather diffucult to give any useful advice.
That's why I didn't mention obvious things like the menhirs of Parc la Mutta, the various small museums and the cathedral of Chur, the Pedrun Hous at Andeer, the church of St. Peter at Mistail, the spa of Avaneu, the frescoes in the churches of Rhaezuns (St. Georg), Vuorz, Zillis, Stugl, and Lavin...(and the tuortas da nuschs that you can buy there at the Furnaria Giacometti and more or less everywhere in the area).
That's why I didn't mention obvious things like the menhirs of Parc la Mutta, the various small museums and the cathedral of Chur, the Pedrun Hous at Andeer, the church of St. Peter at Mistail, the spa of Avaneu, the frescoes in the churches of Rhaezuns (St. Georg), Vuorz, Zillis, Stugl, and Lavin...(and the tuortas da nuschs that you can buy there at the Furnaria Giacometti and more or less everywhere in the area).
Nov 21st, 2018 | 12:37 PM
#16
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 4,257
Likes: 19
Actually, while @ neckervd is contributing here, I’d like to say “thanks” , your many posts led me to going the long way round from Scuol to Sils Maria (via Splügen) so taking 4 days to get there, LOL, not a route I’d have considered otherwise. Which is why I have Zillis on the way....
Nov 22nd, 2018 | 12:16 AM
#18
Joined: Jan 2003
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The Viamala gorge is closed in winter, the walk is not really recommended - parts are very steep, can be very slippery. Definitely not doable after rain or if snow covered.
The church in Zillis is famous for the painted wooden ceiling, but costs an admission of 5 CHF. Unfortunately the exhibit that explains all the pictures is closed in winter - and you don't get a discount
The church in Zillis is famous for the painted wooden ceiling, but costs an admission of 5 CHF. Unfortunately the exhibit that explains all the pictures is closed in winter - and you don't get a discount
Nov 22nd, 2018 | 08:30 AM
#20
Joined: Mar 2013
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" Wondering the walk from Thusis or Viamala gorge is viable in winter? "
The Ruinaulta Gorge would be closer to Flims/Flem. But I don't recommend gorges in winter: as there is usually no sun, trails can get icy and slippery.
Zillis:
Ingo is right: the exhibition is actually closed. There are 2 guided tours (in German), however:
Saturday Dec 29th and Thursday Jan 3rd, both at 15.00.
https://zillis-st-martin.ch/
The Ruinaulta Gorge would be closer to Flims/Flem. But I don't recommend gorges in winter: as there is usually no sun, trails can get icy and slippery.
Zillis:
Ingo is right: the exhibition is actually closed. There are 2 guided tours (in German), however:
Saturday Dec 29th and Thursday Jan 3rd, both at 15.00.
https://zillis-st-martin.ch/
