FINDING LOST PEOPLE
Jun 30th, 2005, 05:49 PM
#21
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nytraveler: stuff happens. And because it hasn't happened to you, that doesn't mean it can't or won't happen to someone else.
My husband and I were inadvertently separated in the Doge's Palace in
Venice and it was a tense hour until he found me sitting inside the entrance waiting for him to show up.
My brother took my grandmother to the ladies' and waited outside the door for her. She walked out a different door.
I don't wish to seem defensive, but I encountered an attitude similar to yours in today's (and many other days') letters to the editor in my local paper. Today's story was this: during a weekend concert at a large ball park, many people had difficulty entering the park, were caught in crushes, and suffered from the crowds and intense heat. There were several letters stating that the writers had been at the same concert and nothing of the kind had happened to them! Were they missing something?
Yes, I think. The range of human experience is vast, and if something unpleasant hasn't happened to me (yet), I try to tell myself that this is only because I've been lucky so far, and not because I am smarter or more gifted than others.
Having lost a child in an accident, I know first hand that things can go terribly wrong in the blink of an eye.
I don't blame folks at all for wanted to be prepared for an accidental separation. Preparation will only increase our comfort level, I think.
I, like many on this forum, prepare for a trip in many, many ways. It makes me more comfortable to do so. I didn't prepare to get separated from my husband on our honeymoon, and don't you know, it happened. Stuff does.
My husband and I were inadvertently separated in the Doge's Palace in
Venice and it was a tense hour until he found me sitting inside the entrance waiting for him to show up.
My brother took my grandmother to the ladies' and waited outside the door for her. She walked out a different door.
I don't wish to seem defensive, but I encountered an attitude similar to yours in today's (and many other days') letters to the editor in my local paper. Today's story was this: during a weekend concert at a large ball park, many people had difficulty entering the park, were caught in crushes, and suffered from the crowds and intense heat. There were several letters stating that the writers had been at the same concert and nothing of the kind had happened to them! Were they missing something?
Yes, I think. The range of human experience is vast, and if something unpleasant hasn't happened to me (yet), I try to tell myself that this is only because I've been lucky so far, and not because I am smarter or more gifted than others.
Having lost a child in an accident, I know first hand that things can go terribly wrong in the blink of an eye.
I don't blame folks at all for wanted to be prepared for an accidental separation. Preparation will only increase our comfort level, I think.
I, like many on this forum, prepare for a trip in many, many ways. It makes me more comfortable to do so. I didn't prepare to get separated from my husband on our honeymoon, and don't you know, it happened. Stuff does.
Jun 30th, 2005, 05:49 PM
#22
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Rockhopper -
I am certainly not missing a brain - since I'm not the one who is lost or losing people.
As for a heart - I don;t think sympathy is esp useful to people who are not organized - they just need to work harder and think things out better.
As for pompous - I wasn;t aware that basic, truthful advice fell into that category.
I recognize that there are people on this board who don;t travel much and who aren;t used to cities and may be overfaced by them.
But I don;t think encouraging unwarranted concerns is really a very helpful attitude- while perhaps putting thing in a more realistic perspective is.
I am certainly not missing a brain - since I'm not the one who is lost or losing people.
As for a heart - I don;t think sympathy is esp useful to people who are not organized - they just need to work harder and think things out better.
As for pompous - I wasn;t aware that basic, truthful advice fell into that category.
I recognize that there are people on this board who don;t travel much and who aren;t used to cities and may be overfaced by them.
But I don;t think encouraging unwarranted concerns is really a very helpful attitude- while perhaps putting thing in a more realistic perspective is.
Jun 30th, 2005, 05:55 PM
#23
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Back to lostinspace (where are you?).
Not sure what situation you envision but from your comment about a hotel being hours away, I would think that you're talking about city-to-city travel in separate groups, right?
I would say one possibility is to designate a contact "agent" such as your destination hotel or a mutual friend whom you both can call to leave a message for the other person.
Failing that, a little planning would have you both agree ahead of time on some specific landmark that's your "failsafe" rendezvous point halfway from point A to point B -- e./g. town hall in X town or such-and-such a church in Y town.
But without more information about what you are trying to do, hard to be creative.
Not sure what situation you envision but from your comment about a hotel being hours away, I would think that you're talking about city-to-city travel in separate groups, right?
I would say one possibility is to designate a contact "agent" such as your destination hotel or a mutual friend whom you both can call to leave a message for the other person.
Failing that, a little planning would have you both agree ahead of time on some specific landmark that's your "failsafe" rendezvous point halfway from point A to point B -- e./g. town hall in X town or such-and-such a church in Y town.
But without more information about what you are trying to do, hard to be creative.
Jun 30th, 2005, 05:57 PM
#24
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"encouraging unwarranted concerns"
Unwarranted to you, maybe,but it does not mean that the rest of the world ( or Fodorland) shares your ideas on this.
Sometimes, the best way for someone to go out in the world and be fearless, is to think they know exactly how to deal with everything that can go wrong..we cannot all be not overfaced or whatever you call it~
Unwarranted to you, maybe,but it does not mean that the rest of the world ( or Fodorland) shares your ideas on this.
Sometimes, the best way for someone to go out in the world and be fearless, is to think they know exactly how to deal with everything that can go wrong..we cannot all be not overfaced or whatever you call it~
Jun 30th, 2005, 06:12 PM
#25
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NYT -- "encouraging unwarranted concerns"? Come on...just because it happens to other people doesn't make them bad planners. It's a sht happens world, and a few of us know that despite the best planning, things can happen...so we try and find out ways to prevent and hope for the best. Slamming someone for asking a question is pompous at the very least, so get off your high horse. That's what this board is for -- answering even the "dumb and dumber" of questions.
In my case, I'm travelling with four older people, one of whom has a bad knee, but she's got the gumption to go anyway. My mom tends to wilt from heat stroke at the drop of a hat, but I plan to keep her cool and watered to the best of my ability. If I lost one of them, even for a moment, I would be deeply concerned about their well-being.
As a result, I plan for as many eventualities as I can, short of obsessing about it, but I sure looked at this post to look for tips on how to find lost people, not to see someone say that losing others is a matter of bad planning. fduh.
tuscanlifeedit: I'm sorry about the loss of your child. I have had a similar experience, and know the grief that goes with it well. ((HUGS)) to you and yours.
Jules
In my case, I'm travelling with four older people, one of whom has a bad knee, but she's got the gumption to go anyway. My mom tends to wilt from heat stroke at the drop of a hat, but I plan to keep her cool and watered to the best of my ability. If I lost one of them, even for a moment, I would be deeply concerned about their well-being.
As a result, I plan for as many eventualities as I can, short of obsessing about it, but I sure looked at this post to look for tips on how to find lost people, not to see someone say that losing others is a matter of bad planning. fduh.
tuscanlifeedit: I'm sorry about the loss of your child. I have had a similar experience, and know the grief that goes with it well. ((HUGS)) to you and yours.
Jules
Jun 30th, 2005, 06:35 PM
#26
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I agree that "don't leave the building" is ground rule #1. But if that doesn't apply, and someone gets seriously separated-- each traveler should have the business card of the hotel he or she is staying in. Then anyone of the group can call the hotel and leave a message to be retrieved by the lost person or vice versa. Saves the trouble of everyone trooping back to the hotel and wasting valuable vacation time.
Jun 30th, 2005, 06:54 PM
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I guess I am superstitious. I like to plan for events such as separation in a large museum and where to meet up. I then feel better because I know that if something does happen I can handle it and everyone knows what to do. I also like to think, that since we have a plan, nothing will go wrong. Better to be prepared for nothing than not.
Jul 1st, 2005, 04:13 AM
#28
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STUFF really does happen. It just does, and often when you least expect it.
I once traipsed around London for a few days and, a week or so later, Paris for a couple more days with a group of 5 other people who represented a range of age groups, and one of whom was nearly deaf.
We used the Tube and the Metro extensively to get around.
I can't even tell you how many times the "fast" walker of the group (my sister) unthinkingly hurried to hop on a train about to leave the station. This caused the slowest one or two or three of the group to come within a hair's breadth of not making it onto the same train before the doors slammed shut for good. We did actually manage to keep the group together, but there were MANY close calls.
In such a case, what do you do if not all of the group makes the train? Who does what? Are you positive everyone heard everything and knows what station they're supposed to be headed for?
That was the trip we came up with our rule - the one I stated above:
"Go back to the last place you saw each other".
Cumbersome and time-consuming, yes, but foolproof. Everybody knows exactly what to do, where to go to, when to stay put. It works even when you had no expectation of getting separated and hadn't thought to designate a specific meeting point.
I once traipsed around London for a few days and, a week or so later, Paris for a couple more days with a group of 5 other people who represented a range of age groups, and one of whom was nearly deaf.
We used the Tube and the Metro extensively to get around.
I can't even tell you how many times the "fast" walker of the group (my sister) unthinkingly hurried to hop on a train about to leave the station. This caused the slowest one or two or three of the group to come within a hair's breadth of not making it onto the same train before the doors slammed shut for good. We did actually manage to keep the group together, but there were MANY close calls.
In such a case, what do you do if not all of the group makes the train? Who does what? Are you positive everyone heard everything and knows what station they're supposed to be headed for?
That was the trip we came up with our rule - the one I stated above:
"Go back to the last place you saw each other".
Cumbersome and time-consuming, yes, but foolproof. Everybody knows exactly what to do, where to go to, when to stay put. It works even when you had no expectation of getting separated and hadn't thought to designate a specific meeting point.
Jul 1st, 2005, 04:18 AM
#29
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My husband and I became separated in Amsterdam almost immediately upon arrival. We approached a crowded tram to board it - I got on, husband was right behind me (I thought). Tram took off - I looked behind me thru all the people, no husband. I got off about 3 stops later, wondering whether to stay there or go back. I crossed over to start walking back to where we boarded -met husband who started walking along the tram's route.
Since that experience, we discuss a meeting plan. Also, I carry my GSM phone - so he could at least find <i>me</i>.
Since that experience, we discuss a meeting plan. Also, I carry my GSM phone - so he could at least find <i>me</i>.
Jul 1st, 2005, 07:37 AM
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I too think there is a bit of overcontrol being put forth here if we are talking about adults. But I do appreciate the necessity to look out for the elderly in our families.
I don't think cell phones are that useful, considering that one or more parties may not know where they are, and you can't get here from there.
The obvious solution if dealing with an adult who probably should not be out on her own would be to hold hands.
Some of the solutions offered are likely to fail. Meeting at the last place you saw each other presupposes that you agree on where that was, and know how to get there. Getting on a return tram works only if the person you have lost didn't get on the next tram. Setting hourly rendevouzs would kill any spontenaity for the whole trip.
My wife and I have a few rules that have served us well. First is that we agree to not panic if separated, enjoy our day, and meet at our lodgings before going to dinner. Another is that if only one of us gets on a train or bus, one gets off at the next stop, and waits for the laggard, who will take the next train or bus one stop. If that doesn't work, then we are on our own until dinner.
If my mother were still with us and was frail, I would watch her like a hawk, since I think elaborate plans to meet at x, y, or z would be a test for her. I think we owe this to their parents.
I don't think cell phones are that useful, considering that one or more parties may not know where they are, and you can't get here from there.
The obvious solution if dealing with an adult who probably should not be out on her own would be to hold hands.
Some of the solutions offered are likely to fail. Meeting at the last place you saw each other presupposes that you agree on where that was, and know how to get there. Getting on a return tram works only if the person you have lost didn't get on the next tram. Setting hourly rendevouzs would kill any spontenaity for the whole trip.
My wife and I have a few rules that have served us well. First is that we agree to not panic if separated, enjoy our day, and meet at our lodgings before going to dinner. Another is that if only one of us gets on a train or bus, one gets off at the next stop, and waits for the laggard, who will take the next train or bus one stop. If that doesn't work, then we are on our own until dinner.
If my mother were still with us and was frail, I would watch her like a hawk, since I think elaborate plans to meet at x, y, or z would be a test for her. I think we owe this to their parents.
Jul 1st, 2005, 09:19 AM
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GreenEyedCatWoman, it would never work for us, because we'd never agree on where the last place we saw each other was. (I'm not kidding.)
We learned early in our relationship that despite all we have in common, we don't seem to use the same logic in figuring out how to find each other when we're accidentally separated. After a series of frustrating missed meetings and horrendous fights afterwards in which we each blamed the other, we got in the habit of having a back up plan. This was all pre-cell phones.
Walkie talkies and cell phones have eliminated the problem, I'm happy to say.
We learned early in our relationship that despite all we have in common, we don't seem to use the same logic in figuring out how to find each other when we're accidentally separated. After a series of frustrating missed meetings and horrendous fights afterwards in which we each blamed the other, we got in the habit of having a back up plan. This was all pre-cell phones.
Walkie talkies and cell phones have eliminated the problem, I'm happy to say.
Jul 1st, 2005, 05:17 PM
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Dear jules4je7
Thank you and the very same to you. Kind words go a very long way, don't they?
I appreciate yours. This coming weekend is the anniversary of my son's death, so your kindness is especially welcome tonight.
Bless you, Debbie
Thank you and the very same to you. Kind words go a very long way, don't they?
I appreciate yours. This coming weekend is the anniversary of my son's death, so your kindness is especially welcome tonight.
Bless you, Debbie
Jul 1st, 2005, 06:45 PM
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My son and I got separated somehow in the Vatican last November. He's 13, so I wasn't frantic, but I was concerned and annoyed that we had to miss the final leg of our guided tour. He had gone on ahead, something that had not occured to me to address. (Lagging behind, yes.)
Nothing, however, prepared me for the feeling of utter terror when we were on a jam-packed rush hour train in Tokyo, and I got off but HE STAYED ON. As the doors were closing, I told him to get off at the next stop and WAIT.
We had no cell phones, no Japanese language, and about two miles and a few million people between us. I almost threw up on the platform waiting for the next train.
Being an eminently sensible boy, he did just as I asked--- although he had not heard me correctly, but he divined that this was the right course of action from the panic stricken look on my face, probably. The relief I felt when I saw him standing on the platform waiting at the next stop was simply indescribable. We went on our way for dinner, and THEN decided to come up with a contingency plan for EVERY situation we could dream up.
From my perspective, you CANNOT be overprepared.
Nothing, however, prepared me for the feeling of utter terror when we were on a jam-packed rush hour train in Tokyo, and I got off but HE STAYED ON. As the doors were closing, I told him to get off at the next stop and WAIT.
We had no cell phones, no Japanese language, and about two miles and a few million people between us. I almost threw up on the platform waiting for the next train.
Being an eminently sensible boy, he did just as I asked--- although he had not heard me correctly, but he divined that this was the right course of action from the panic stricken look on my face, probably. The relief I felt when I saw him standing on the platform waiting at the next stop was simply indescribable. We went on our way for dinner, and THEN decided to come up with a contingency plan for EVERY situation we could dream up.
From my perspective, you CANNOT be overprepared.
Jul 1st, 2005, 07:15 PM
#37
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Well isn't the Boy Scout motto "Be Prepared"? Or something like that. Obviously I was never a Boy Scout, LOL.
But being prepared is always a good idea. Living in CA, earthquake country, our entire family knows to call our family in Portland OR if we here in CA cannot reach each other. And this was done when the 1989 SF earthquake hit. Had a family member in the Marina and another one in Santa Clara. Being prepared is always good.
Cell phone are great. Also like the idea of everyone having a business card from the hotel. Like Marilyn, I think in my family having everyone meet at the "last place" would probably entail two days of arguements as to where the "last place" was.
BTW, last summer I went to an outdoor concert with my neighbor, her son & DIL and her little grandson. It got dark, we were all together listening to the music while standing by the bandstand and enjoying a glass of wine when suddenly my neighbor asked where her little grandson was. Total horror, he was no longer with us! And there were about 4,000 people at the concert. Total panic to the point noone could even remember what outfit he was wearing.
Long story short, he had wandered off, evidently just a few feet, but people got between him and our group so he couldn't find us again. The little fellow found his way back to where our seats were all by himself. And that is where we found him. We almost passed out with relief. He explained to us that he went back to where our seats were because it just made sense to him. A Boy Scout to be I guess. So yes, bad stuff happens. And having plans sure can be a good thing.
But being prepared is always a good idea. Living in CA, earthquake country, our entire family knows to call our family in Portland OR if we here in CA cannot reach each other. And this was done when the 1989 SF earthquake hit. Had a family member in the Marina and another one in Santa Clara. Being prepared is always good.
Cell phone are great. Also like the idea of everyone having a business card from the hotel. Like Marilyn, I think in my family having everyone meet at the "last place" would probably entail two days of arguements as to where the "last place" was.
BTW, last summer I went to an outdoor concert with my neighbor, her son & DIL and her little grandson. It got dark, we were all together listening to the music while standing by the bandstand and enjoying a glass of wine when suddenly my neighbor asked where her little grandson was. Total horror, he was no longer with us! And there were about 4,000 people at the concert. Total panic to the point noone could even remember what outfit he was wearing.
Long story short, he had wandered off, evidently just a few feet, but people got between him and our group so he couldn't find us again. The little fellow found his way back to where our seats were all by himself. And that is where we found him. We almost passed out with relief. He explained to us that he went back to where our seats were because it just made sense to him. A Boy Scout to be I guess. So yes, bad stuff happens. And having plans sure can be a good thing.
Jul 1st, 2005, 07:23 PM
#38
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Dear Tuscanlifeedit, I am so sorry about the loss of your son. I had no idea. My prayers and thoughts are with all of you during this anniversary weekend. I hope you have a lot of people around you to give you hugs, love and lots of care. Take good care of yourself. Peace.
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