Colleen

I'm with you MelJ, my husband and I took a Cosmo (read cheeeep) as our first introduction to Europe. We hated everything about the tour, and I mean everything but I did fall hard for European travel and we still travel to Europe once a year and love every minute (well not every minute but you get the idea). We always travel independently and rent a variety of apartments, gites, small hotels and pensions and stay for three or four weeks. We did do one further tour and it worked out fine when travelling with my sister and it was called Adventures Abroad. It is more expensive than the way we normally travel but the tours are cultural tours and you do get alot of information on sites by local guides. I could see this as a tour when we are too old to drive outselves.

hetismij

Meadows of turning windmills between Belgium and Amsterdam?? Where? You see maybe two from the motorway, and given their time line they can't do anything but motorway.
The hotel is also clearly not in Amsterdam but out in the sticks somewhere because it's cheaper.

I'm exhausted just reading this tour.

But you get similar tours offered to the USA from Europe, many self drives which involve huge distance driving every day - and as the hotel is pre-booked you have to cover the ground.

nytraveler

I love the idea of having a half day in London to see it "at leisure" I wonder what sight that includes?

kwren

I pity the bus driver - I hope he gets a bathroom break!

LSky

"I love the idea of having a half day in London to see it "at leisure" I wonder what sight that includes?"

Maybe it's one of those "off the beaten track" moments (read hour) sitting in traffic while leaving the city?

I think these are tours for people who don't know any better. Saddest of all, for them, is that they really don't want to. Saddest for me, is that these groups tend to get to the museums when they open, same time I want to go in.

Good for me is that they don't stay long.

Fashionista

xyz123 Please, please please give Spain another chance!

Its a truly beautiful, inspiring, and fascinating place to visit. It can be hot in summer, so avoid the excess but may I tell you about my experience of the country?

Seville, about 6pm in the evening, after along hot day. I was in the garden of pilots house. Most of the tourists had gone and it felt like we had the place to ourselves. I laid down in the shade on a stone bench, decorated with exquisite ceramic tiles: it was still hot from the days sun. Above me was the most stunningly beautiful sky contrasted with the lush green of the garden plants. All the aches of my shoulders dissolved with the warmth and it is one of the most peaceful experiences of my life. So still, and calm and beautiful.

That's the Spain I know. Do give it another chance.

Sassafrass

I am not opposed to tours. It is nice to have everything done for you, and they can be great! However, this one, in particular, is really, truly horrible. There is less than a half day and night in Venice, less than a half day and night in Florence. The day's drive from England to Amsterdam leaves no time in Amsterdam. It isn't even how little time is allotted to "being there": the amount of travel time is much greater than the amount of sightseeing time. Cost ratio of what you get for what you spend is pretty poor.

I understand that some folks want a so-called "taste" of a place, but this tour just gives a "sniff."

Sometimes, the more time I spend in a place, the more I like it. Sometimes, just the reverse. I always liked Rome, but fell in love with it on my fourth trip there. Gibraltar: first time - kind of fun, second time - waste, there won't be a third time.

There is also something quite wonderful knowing a place well enough to feel at home there. During a recent trip, I became ill and was quite shaken. DH and I discussed the situation. We changed plans and went to Florence. As soon as we stepped off the train, I felt better, like I was home and would be cared for. That even carried over to the hotel where we were treated as family guests and told how happy they were that we had come. One of the best moments of all my travels.

janisj

xyz . . . We aren't talking about "tours in general" . . . We are talking about THIS specific tour. There is nothing you can say (no matter how many hundreds of words you use trying) that makes this tour anything other than a hot mess!

There is nothing to recommend this one - hours and hours and hours in a coach seeing "Europe" whizzing past.

Some tours are good, some are OK, and some (like this one) are ridiculous . . . .

LindaL

Jeez, Fashionista, you're making me sad that I am missing Seville on my first trip to Spain this September. Ah well, now I will have a reason to go again!!!

Fashionista

LindaL - have a wonderful time in Spain. I'm guessing you will get to Barcelona. In the Gaudi park go right to the top - even when its busy down the bottom not many bother to climb that high. There are shady benches that look out over the city and its nice and quiet. I sat and read Robert Graves' Good-bye to all that up there. Really special. But take water with you!

If Madrid is on your itinerary, the gardens at the back of the Royal Palace are beautiful (not the ones to the right thought they are nice too). They are a bit awkward to get to, but have shady paths with benches and if you are lucky the odd peacock wanders past. Little oasis in the madness and again, not many people to spoil you peace.

I'm a bit of a Spain fan! Have fun.

november_moon

Tours in general - I think they are fine. I haven't been on one because it has never seemed to fit with what I want to do, but I am not opposed to them

THIS tour - looks awful.

lowcountrycarol

"Today we head south along the Autostrada del Sole, across the Veneto plain, bypassing the University city of Bologna to cross over....."

What do you think the point of mentioning this was? Can the participants in this tour have the boasting rights when they return home that while they did not actually see Bologna they did "bypass" it? Maybe they can keep a list of what else they bypassed...like possibly the whole travel experience.

Sassafrass

janisj, I love your term, "hot mess." I used to tell my kids they were going to be in "hot trouble." They weren't too bothered by trouble, but "hot trouble" got their attention.

LindaL

Oooh, thanks so much, Fashionista. I am going to both cities and those places will be my siesta resting spots.

luv2travel54

Sassafras, your comments have caused a frenzy on the Trafalgar BB by those dedicated to coach travel
under the topic of...'is this criticism fair or accurate?'
http://trafbb.com

karens

I'm not opposed to tours, either - they can be a way to see a whole lot and have many details taken care of for you. But this itinerary is nuts. There is no time to see anything that makes these cities so wonderful. Driving by sights/sites is not my idea of travel, and that's all one does on a trip like the OP shared.

I took a 10 day tour of Italy that was Venice-Florence-Rome. This was not enough time to see as much as I would have liked, but it was an excellent intro to the best of what these cities has to offer.

I still researched the trip as I would have if I went on my own, and I ditched the tour several times. The stops for shopping annoyed me, so when the tour saw a "leather demonstration" in Florence, I left early and spent 2 hrs. in the Pitti Palace. The tour had a side trip to Pompeii from Rome (which was 5 hrs. of round trip driving). Several women from the tour and I spent an extra day in Rome, and that was a great day.

irishface

This tour did exhaust me just by reading it. someone mentioned that friends who had just returned from a tour had no idea what they had seen. I have also had friends return from independent travel who were sort of vague about what they had seen and whose trip itinerary had them backtracking and going way out of the way several times. One out of the way day they arrived to find the sight they had gone to see was closed. I refrained from commenting that a little research and a look at a map would have prevented this crazy trip.

jean253

In 1996 we took a Trafalgar 31 days 11 country tour, which included a 3 day Greek Island cruise. We had an excellent courier. who had a wealth of knowledge both historical & up to date info.which he imparted en-route to the next stop.There were 34 travelers ages 18 to 80.and everyone got along well,(we are still in touch with a few of them} My husband and I are very well traveled & this was our first bus trip, all others during 50 years of travel being either independent or cruising.& thought the Trafalgar tour was very good. Those who have made judgments of the type of person who take bus tours, seem to forget. that there are people who find that this is the only way they are able to travel either through age, dissabiltey or being alone. Most times these tours give one an insight of places that they would like to return to & spend more time in ,as we have since done.

janisj

jean253: This is NOT a 31 day tour. it is 15 days <u>including transatlantic travel days</u> and covering 8 countries w/ much less than a day in most cities.

There is absolutely no comparison to your tour 14 years ago.

xyz123

jean...there is a prejudice on this board against tours and that's fine...the European whirl is a packed tour...and I don't discount that some people just feel it's too much packed into little time and again they are entitled to their opinions. But some of the generalizations are a bit too much. You do that tour, for example, you do a walking tour of Florence, you can do an optional to the Academia and not wait on a queue and see David...you have a dinner in the hotel and then there might or might not be something optional to do...the choice is your. You can go see the covered bridge. That might be enough for some people for Florence. Others might love it so much, they want to go back. As jam packed as it is, yes you don't see everything and you can argue whether it's necessary to say in the itinerary we pass by Bologna...maybe next time you have more confidance to do your own thing in Italy or take a tour that concentrates just on Italy...you have to get from point A to point B somehow so what are your choices? A train...the trains are good but you have to shlep your own luggage and each time you arrive in a new burgh either you have made a reservation already and have to find your hotel or you have to first find a hotel. Some people love that and that's fine. Or you can rent your own car. The problem there is the driver of the car misses out on a lot of the beautiful scenery...you really can't stay in a downtown hotel without paying an arm and a leg for parking, road tolls in Europe are very very high, petrol is very high but this is some people's cup of tea and again that's fine.

My first visit to Europe was such a tour some years ago and as I've said, I didn't feel cheated one bit. I went to Rome, got into the Vatican Museum without waiting on an hours long queue, saw the Coloseum, the Forum whatever and had a choicve of a free afternoon or some optional tour. Was there more to see in Rome? Of course but it was up to me if I cared to come back and do other things. I was not taken to shop after shop where the tour guide got a piece of the action. I was taken to some like the glass blowing exhibition in Venice but there was nothing to keep me from walking out. The guide told me exactly where I had to be to get back and personally I wasn't terribly impressed by Venice; the canals are dirty and everything is overpriced. But I did see St. Marks, I did go to the top of the tower there, I did take a canal ride through the Grand Canal. If I had loved Benice, I could have come back.

To laugh at people and say they didn't see anything in these cities is absurd. Yes the days are long but I'm an early riser anyway...no need to worry about luggage...out it goes in front of your room and when you arrive at the next city, it's delivered to your room. The buses are modern and have air conditioning and a toilet for emergency use and they do stop every two hours somewhere for nature and coffee and whatever. I do understand it is not everybody's cup of tea but for many people, as I've said, it's a great way to make friends from all over the world; especially with a company like Trafalgar which caters to Americans, Canadians, Aussies, New Zealanders, South Africans and whatever. Is one day and two evenings enough to see Paris. Of course not...but let's see on this tour you see the Eifel Tower (some tours go up to the 2nd story and don't wait in a queue, you drive along the Champs Elysee, you see L'Etoile, you get an orientation. Then you have an afternoon to do whatever you want to do; shop, do an optional tour whatever. No it isn't enough time to do Paris justice; however this tour ends in Paris and there is nothing to keep you from staying over a few days and doing some of your own things in Paris...the tour starts in London and includes one London tour but again there is nothing to keep you from spending a few extra days in London (just for the record, the tour is marketed slightly differently for Australians and New Zealdners as opposed to North Americans...for the former there are no London arrangements usually included they arrive in London at ehri leisure and join the tour at the Trafalgar office, for North Americans London arrangements are included, meagre very true but they are welcome to make whatever other arrangements they wish., For North Americans the tour ends in Paris and they are dropped at the airport; for Australians, the tour takes them back to London although obviously they have the option to stay over in Paris.

Now I never disrespect anybody who has different opinions and believe me I could write a book on some of the disadvantages of tours such as, as was noted, the vague language which makes you think you're going to see something when the reality is that as you whiz by on the Autostrada the guide shouts into the microphone on your left you see...also many arrive for a tour and have no idea of the concept of the optional tours and are shocked to learn that if you take all the optionals it might cost you another $500 per person (I blame travel agents for that who tell clients every thing is paid for)...Australians are distressed to learn it is customary to tip the tour director and the coach driver (their society has a different view point on tips) and that sometimes causes friction.

Again, I've been told by TA that this particular tour, the Whirl is one of Trafalgar's most popular but also the one where after the tour they get the most complaints by some (but by no means all) of the clients. But if you get two weeks of vacation in the summer and you decide you would like to see 8 countries, it is not necessarily the worst way to do it.

But then again, bear in mind that the majority of the people on this board prefer to do their touring independently and that is their perfect right. The only troubling thing, sometimes, is when people who have never done such a tour categorically condemn people who might do it. I don't think that's necessarily right.