European Whirl Trip by Trafalgar Tours. OMG!
Jul 10th, 2010, 09:28 PM
#21
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My first trip to Europe was with my sister on a Trafalgar London/Paris/Rome tour. This was back in 1994. Only three cities, but it was too much because we traveled everywhere on bus (except the channel crossing, which was by ferry), which took an enormous amount of time away from sightseeing. Not a bad introduction to Europe (except for the tour guide from hell in London/Paris), but all it did was show me that I could do it myself, which is how I've traveled ever since.
The itinerary above is insane!
The itinerary above is insane!
Jul 10th, 2010, 09:35 PM
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TPAYT, No, of course, I didn't type all that. I just cut and pasted the itinerary portion from their web site.
Willtravel, I've been to pretty much all the places on the tour also, but they would have to pay me to go on that one.
xyz123, I won't go on any trip where more time is spent traveling than sight seeing or relaxing. There is only so much you can really see from a bus on the highway. I like my travel experiences up close and personal.
LSky, bet if we suggested it, they would fine a way to include Ireland. Someone else also suggested Spain.
Willtravel, I've been to pretty much all the places on the tour also, but they would have to pay me to go on that one.
xyz123, I won't go on any trip where more time is spent traveling than sight seeing or relaxing. There is only so much you can really see from a bus on the highway. I like my travel experiences up close and personal.
LSky, bet if we suggested it, they would fine a way to include Ireland. Someone else also suggested Spain.
Jul 11th, 2010, 12:35 AM
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I'd love to do a 'SLOW' trip in England but even there when you can see so much in a short distance and see it really well, they want to rush a 200 or 300 miles somewhere else!If there is a company out there doing genuine slow trips of Britain and/or Europe let me know!!!!
moonrise
moonrise
Jul 11th, 2010, 01:52 AM
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They are right -it is a total whirl.
It is a little bit of everything, but nothing of the real thing. These trips are expensive. I did a similar Cosmos trip 12 years ago, saw lots but experienced little. I have been back twice to experience everything that I missed and it is so much better seeing Europe at a slower pace and much cheaper too.
It is a little bit of everything, but nothing of the real thing. These trips are expensive. I did a similar Cosmos trip 12 years ago, saw lots but experienced little. I have been back twice to experience everything that I missed and it is so much better seeing Europe at a slower pace and much cheaper too.
Jul 11th, 2010, 02:14 AM
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May I respectfully disagree. Everybody is different. Some peole find it a pleasure to plan for months, make hotel reservations (much easier now thanks to the internet and e-mail of course) secure all their accomodations and then when actually on holiday arrive in some new city in their rented car, look all over the place for their hotel, worry about parking it for the night or if not renting a car shlepping their baggage on trains and cabs from place to place, wondering what happens if the car breaks down or whatever.
Nobody claims that doing a tour allows you to see everything. OTOH, these tours are very popular with some. Each morning on a travel day, you put your bag outside the door, go down for breakfast, onto a modern air conditioned coach, never travel for more than 2 1/2 hours at a time before you reach some burgh or a comfort stop for drinks and nature calls, another couple of hours and again you arrive at a lunch stop sometimes in a city or other times at an Autogrill (ugh) a couple of more hours with a comfort stop and you arrive at your hotel, get your room key, your bag is delivered and decide what you want to do for the evening. Often dinner is included (nothing fancy but nothing terrible), other times there is some sort of optional activity (including dinner)...oh yes the optionals, more in a second, go to the bar, unwind whatever. Everything is done for you.
In a large city with a 2 day layover, the next day you get the usual orientation tour that will include photo stops and may or may not include admission to something depending on the itinerary. You then have a choice of doing your own thing or doing an optional visit. Say in Paris it might be a tour of the Louvre with a local guide or a touor of Versailles. The optionals do increase the price and unless briefed before you may not realize just how much the optionals add to the tour and this does lead to some consternation among people.
So there are good things and bad things and people are different. As to price, I would wager if you did on your own all the things that are included, throwing in the pricer of gasoline and road tolls, you will pay more independently.
I can go on and on about tours vs. independence. To each his or her own. But to just look at the itinerary and laugh and say idiotic is not understanding the needs and desires of other people.
BTW from having done a similar tour a few years ago in my youth (and to this day I appreciate the value of having been all these places, gotten an idea of the lay of the land so to speak and then done more regional tours or my own thing in places like Paris, Amsterdam, London), day 9 spends the morning in Venice. They throw in a glass blowing demonstration (actually a demonstration for the glass company giving them the opportunity to sucker you into buying from them (they actuaolly explain why red glass is more expensive), free time to explore St. Marks Square and walk around Venice, give you time to shop and be ripped off (because there is nothing of any value to buy in Venice) and after lunch you leave for Rome arriving in time for either your own dinner arrangement or an optional dinner and a drive through Rome at night (at least in Rome, it doesn't get dark at 2300 as it does in Paris and Amsterdam during the summer).
Many pros and cons one way or the other!
Nobody claims that doing a tour allows you to see everything. OTOH, these tours are very popular with some. Each morning on a travel day, you put your bag outside the door, go down for breakfast, onto a modern air conditioned coach, never travel for more than 2 1/2 hours at a time before you reach some burgh or a comfort stop for drinks and nature calls, another couple of hours and again you arrive at a lunch stop sometimes in a city or other times at an Autogrill (ugh) a couple of more hours with a comfort stop and you arrive at your hotel, get your room key, your bag is delivered and decide what you want to do for the evening. Often dinner is included (nothing fancy but nothing terrible), other times there is some sort of optional activity (including dinner)...oh yes the optionals, more in a second, go to the bar, unwind whatever. Everything is done for you.
In a large city with a 2 day layover, the next day you get the usual orientation tour that will include photo stops and may or may not include admission to something depending on the itinerary. You then have a choice of doing your own thing or doing an optional visit. Say in Paris it might be a tour of the Louvre with a local guide or a touor of Versailles. The optionals do increase the price and unless briefed before you may not realize just how much the optionals add to the tour and this does lead to some consternation among people.
So there are good things and bad things and people are different. As to price, I would wager if you did on your own all the things that are included, throwing in the pricer of gasoline and road tolls, you will pay more independently.
I can go on and on about tours vs. independence. To each his or her own. But to just look at the itinerary and laugh and say idiotic is not understanding the needs and desires of other people.
BTW from having done a similar tour a few years ago in my youth (and to this day I appreciate the value of having been all these places, gotten an idea of the lay of the land so to speak and then done more regional tours or my own thing in places like Paris, Amsterdam, London), day 9 spends the morning in Venice. They throw in a glass blowing demonstration (actually a demonstration for the glass company giving them the opportunity to sucker you into buying from them (they actuaolly explain why red glass is more expensive), free time to explore St. Marks Square and walk around Venice, give you time to shop and be ripped off (because there is nothing of any value to buy in Venice) and after lunch you leave for Rome arriving in time for either your own dinner arrangement or an optional dinner and a drive through Rome at night (at least in Rome, it doesn't get dark at 2300 as it does in Paris and Amsterdam during the summer).
Many pros and cons one way or the other!
Jul 11th, 2010, 02:23 AM
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Just to throw out another thought...a nice thing about a tour such as this with a company such as Trafalgar, is that you get to meet people from all over the world. I've met many Australians and New Zealanders on these tours and they explain the difficulties in getting from home to Europe, 24 hour trips oftentimes by way of Singapore or Dubai and that they might take back to back tours as, unlike say a person like myself who lives on the East Coast of North America and for whom a trip to London or Paris is really no big deal and not much longer than a trip to LA, they just can't do it every year or whatever. And the groups usually bond really well and you make all sorts of new friends, something you just don't get when travelling independently (I have a whole bunch of standing invites to visit down under but I try to explain I'm a very picky eater and only eat steaks and shrimp and worry about strange foods in Aussie land. I don't think the cuisine is like the Outback or is it?)
Jul 11th, 2010, 03:41 AM
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DH and I started out with guided tours and I agree with xyz123 that they fill a need for travelers. We took one to Greece and one to England-places where language could have been too big a barrier for us (LOL) and were very pleased as newbies to have all the schlepping done by someone else.
The one described above does seem, on the other hand, to be long on driving and short on visiting.
DIY or tour has been debated almost as much as whether Venice is a "must see"-guess the question will go on!
The one described above does seem, on the other hand, to be long on driving and short on visiting.
DIY or tour has been debated almost as much as whether Venice is a "must see"-guess the question will go on!
Jul 11th, 2010, 06:01 AM
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DAY 6 MANNHEIM – HEIDELBERG – MUNICH – INNSBRUCK
Do we have to spend all that time in Munich?
On arrival in Venice.......
At least we get chance to visit a glass factory instead of some yuckky museum, or something.
still have time to shop for Swiss watches and delicious chocolate!
Who can be against that?
2 nights in Rome and 2 nights in Paris - is there that much worth seeing?
Do we have to spend all that time in Munich?
On arrival in Venice.......
At least we get chance to visit a glass factory instead of some yuckky museum, or something.
still have time to shop for Swiss watches and delicious chocolate!
Who can be against that?
2 nights in Rome and 2 nights in Paris - is there that much worth seeing?
Jul 11th, 2010, 06:28 AM
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As I said, I did a tour such as this about a decade ago...Heidelberg is sort of the break stop in the AM...you go up to the castle but not necessarily in the castle (it might be optional) although on the sides of the castle, you get the view of the river for photos...
Munchen is the lunch stop...a quiuck orientation drive and they usually drop you in the Marinplatz...there is a nice market behind the church there where you can get a sausage and sit in the beer garden or you can walk a couple of blocks to at east see the hofbrauhaus (nothing much is going on at noontime)...is it enough or too much? Who knows...then it's on to Innsbrook....a couple of hours walking around there is enough...the scenery is nice but so what....they usually include a dinner in a restaurant there and there is a tyrolean folklore show that is usually an optional...the hotel they've used in the past is only a few blocks from the main square in Innsbrook....again nobody says it is perfect and given my choice based on what I know now, I would prefer to spend the whole afternoon in Munich, visit the Deutsches Museum and have some time at night at the Hofbrauhaus and do Innsbrook the next day but that's me. Again it's more or less an orientation tour and if you enjoy Munchen, then you can always come back and know where the hofbrauhaus is, see the marinplatz and the show they put on at 1030 and do your own thing.....or do a German tour which spends two nights in Munich....it's all a case of making compromises...you can see a little of a lot or a lot of a little...the choice is yours.
BTW this tour convinced me that Rome is almost like a den of thieves. I saw the Vatican Museum, the Coloseum, the Spanish steps. To mke once was enugh and I've never really had the appetite to go back to Rome but at least I can say I've been there! To each his or her own.
Munchen is the lunch stop...a quiuck orientation drive and they usually drop you in the Marinplatz...there is a nice market behind the church there where you can get a sausage and sit in the beer garden or you can walk a couple of blocks to at east see the hofbrauhaus (nothing much is going on at noontime)...is it enough or too much? Who knows...then it's on to Innsbrook....a couple of hours walking around there is enough...the scenery is nice but so what....they usually include a dinner in a restaurant there and there is a tyrolean folklore show that is usually an optional...the hotel they've used in the past is only a few blocks from the main square in Innsbrook....again nobody says it is perfect and given my choice based on what I know now, I would prefer to spend the whole afternoon in Munich, visit the Deutsches Museum and have some time at night at the Hofbrauhaus and do Innsbrook the next day but that's me. Again it's more or less an orientation tour and if you enjoy Munchen, then you can always come back and know where the hofbrauhaus is, see the marinplatz and the show they put on at 1030 and do your own thing.....or do a German tour which spends two nights in Munich....it's all a case of making compromises...you can see a little of a lot or a lot of a little...the choice is yours.
BTW this tour convinced me that Rome is almost like a den of thieves. I saw the Vatican Museum, the Coloseum, the Spanish steps. To mke once was enugh and I've never really had the appetite to go back to Rome but at least I can say I've been there! To each his or her own.
Jul 11th, 2010, 06:44 AM
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And in response to "Rome is a den of thieves"! Our first trip to Italy was to fly into and out of Rome, with only hotels booked in Rome and then plans to go onto Florence and Venice . We ended up spending the entire 3 weeks in Rome we had so much to do an see and enjoy. We had to go back the next year to visit the other places
Jul 11th, 2010, 07:03 AM
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<<<BTW this tour convinced me that Rome is almost like a den of thieves. I saw the Vatican Museum, the Coloseum, the Spanish steps. To mke once was enugh and I've never really had the appetite to go back to Rome but at least I can say I've been there! To each his or her own.>>>
What a shame. One of the greatest pleasures of Rome is just wandering randomly through the narrow streets, 'discovering' family run shops that make the goods on the premiss, sitting in the shade sipping something cool whilst watching the world go by.
The Bernini trail is wonderful, and your whirl wind would not have allowed you to see Ecstasy of Saint Theresa. Even if it did, you would be loosing so much to trundle in with a group. It needs peace and solitude.
I can see that some may like an assisted tour, but you miss so much if this is all you ever see, or feel, or smell, or hear.
All my best travel moments have not been the 'must sees' but the 'just discovereds'.
What a shame. One of the greatest pleasures of Rome is just wandering randomly through the narrow streets, 'discovering' family run shops that make the goods on the premiss, sitting in the shade sipping something cool whilst watching the world go by.
The Bernini trail is wonderful, and your whirl wind would not have allowed you to see Ecstasy of Saint Theresa. Even if it did, you would be loosing so much to trundle in with a group. It needs peace and solitude.
I can see that some may like an assisted tour, but you miss so much if this is all you ever see, or feel, or smell, or hear.
All my best travel moments have not been the 'must sees' but the 'just discovereds'.
Jul 11th, 2010, 07:44 AM
#36
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...you see though I like Munchen; others hate it. I like Amsterdam but hate Brussels..I hated Spain but at least I was there...again I don't wish to substitute my tastes for others...perhaps it's the weather (I was in these places in summer and it was HOT HOT HOT)....I thought Venezia was dirty, others love it. I get that but then again that's what a tour is for, to help one discover what one likes and what one doesn't like but I respect anybody who disagrees!
Jul 11th, 2010, 08:12 AM
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I'd guess these people would be tourists, not travellers? 
I'll be honest, my very first trip ever was a 21-day Contiki tour of Europe. I was young, naive and inexperienced before it, and thereafter I had the comfort level to plan my own trips.
I'll be honest, my very first trip ever was a 21-day Contiki tour of Europe. I was young, naive and inexperienced before it, and thereafter I had the comfort level to plan my own trips.
Jul 11th, 2010, 08:35 AM
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You gotta love the numerous references to "leisure."
And I don't buy the notion that this is just a way to travel for folks whose tastes are just "different" from those of most Fodorites. These are tours for folks who just plain don't know any better and want to say they "did" Europe. And if you come back from such a tour saying you didn't "like" Munich, or Spain, for example, that's meaningless, because you didn't have a chance to learn what-all about the place to begin with.
And I don't buy the notion that this is just a way to travel for folks whose tastes are just "different" from those of most Fodorites. These are tours for folks who just plain don't know any better and want to say they "did" Europe. And if you come back from such a tour saying you didn't "like" Munich, or Spain, for example, that's meaningless, because you didn't have a chance to learn what-all about the place to begin with.
Jul 11th, 2010, 08:45 AM
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I'm with Fashionista. Rome is about the passiagetta and sipping wine in Piazza Navona, etc in addition to seeing the sights. Venice is all about getting lost while ambling through the back streets and discovering a shop that makes authentic Venetian masks. You think you're seeing a lot when you are traveling to all those places, but you're really missing more, a whole lot more.
Jul 11th, 2010, 08:53 AM
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xyz123: As I said earlier, I took a Trafalgar tour in 1994 as my introduction to Europe, but it was only London, Paris, Rome and was actually rather leisurely. I agree that there are pros and cons to traveling with a group as opposed to independently (although I strongly fall into the "independent" group), my parents took a ton of these whirlwind tours and were quite happy to feel they had "seen" Europe. But we all know they didn't.
Having someone else shlep your luggage is nice, yes. Spending an inordinate amount of time on a big bus was not. Having someone else take care of entrance tickets and moving to the head of the line (our early entrance to the Vatican comes to mind), yes. Eating at bland restaurants chosen for their ability to seat a busload of tourists was not. Getting up at 5:00 a.m. to board a bus that then went to two other hotels to pick up others on the tour was not. Neither was being taken to every tourist trap souvenir shop between London and Rome so the tour guide could get her kickback from our purchases. We seemed to spend more time "take your time" at these shops than at actual sights. Finally, spending all your time with your fellow bus mates is insulating. There is no reasons to interact with locals, learn the currency or pick up a few friendly phrases.
But, relevant to this particular tour, my real argument is with the number of countries and stops involved. This is, IMHO, not engineered to give the tourists a good sample of the countries, but rather to provide the tour company with as many hotel/restaurant/souvenir shop kickbacks as possible.
Sheepherding comes to mind.
Having someone else shlep your luggage is nice, yes. Spending an inordinate amount of time on a big bus was not. Having someone else take care of entrance tickets and moving to the head of the line (our early entrance to the Vatican comes to mind), yes. Eating at bland restaurants chosen for their ability to seat a busload of tourists was not. Getting up at 5:00 a.m. to board a bus that then went to two other hotels to pick up others on the tour was not. Neither was being taken to every tourist trap souvenir shop between London and Rome so the tour guide could get her kickback from our purchases. We seemed to spend more time "take your time" at these shops than at actual sights. Finally, spending all your time with your fellow bus mates is insulating. There is no reasons to interact with locals, learn the currency or pick up a few friendly phrases.
But, relevant to this particular tour, my real argument is with the number of countries and stops involved. This is, IMHO, not engineered to give the tourists a good sample of the countries, but rather to provide the tour company with as many hotel/restaurant/souvenir shop kickbacks as possible.
Sheepherding comes to mind.
