Sport's always a funny one, half inside and half outside politics.<BR><BR>I suspect the British Lions is derived from it being a British Isles team, not a country, more a collective. Either that or it's a throwback to pre-Republican times, but I doubt it as the Irish would've walked out by now.<BR><BR>We seem to divide ourselves up differently depending on the sport we're playing. Mostly England, Scotland, Wales and NI play as GB (which isn't really fair to the Northern Irish), whereas in Football hell would freeze over before the respective national football associations would give up their power bases and let us play as a combined team. That's why we'll never have a football team in the Olympics.<BR><BR>I don't think even many British really understand the difference between the UK and Great Britain. If Great Britain is basically a union of 3 countries (England, Wales and Scotland), then The UK is a union of one country with a union of 3 other countries! Ain't politics a strange thing?

The British Lions used to be a British Team, and Ireland joined in recently.<BR><BR>They are now the British and Irish Lions.<BR><BR>Prince Philip? Have you never heard of him referred to as Phil the Greek? They used to have him making kebabs on Spitting Image.<BR><BR>Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich, was born Prince of Greece and Denmark in Corfu on 10 June 1921; the only son of Prince Andrew of Greece. His paternal family is of Danish descent - Prince Andrew was the grandson of King Christian IX of Denmark. His mother was Princess Alice of Battenberg, the eldest child of Prince Louis of Battenberg and sister of Earl Mountbatten of Burma. Prince Louis became a naturalised British subject in 1868, joined the Royal Navy and rose to become an Admiral of the Fleet and First Sea Lord in 1914. During the First World War he changed the family name to Mountbatten and was created Marquess of Milford Haven. Prince Philip adopted the family name of Mountbatten when he became a naturalised British subject and renounced his Royal title in 1947. <BR><BR>Prince Louis married one of Queen Victoria's granddaughters. Thus, The Queen and Prince Philip both have Queen Victoria as a great-great-grandmother. They are also related through his father's side. His paternal grandfather, King George I of Greece, was Queen Alexandra's brother.<BR><BR>Look what you get for marrying your relatives. It is rumoured that Charles, Andrew and Edwina married "commoners" in order to widen the narrow Royal gene pool.

<BR>" Give Ireland back to the Irish"

That's a hot one! Are you a troll?<BR><BR>Errr, they kind of took most of it for themselves, and we are now desperately trying to get shot of the last bit whilst avoiding a sectarian blood bath.<BR>

But do the Irish really want the idiots from the north?

I expect you already know the website "Monarchy Today".<BR>www.royal.gov.uk<BR>Lists Kings and Queens of England and Scotland, as far back as King Alfred (the cake burner).<BR>Also the Union Flag dispute is solved in detail - the diagonal red and white IS St. Patrick of Ireland and not Geraldine.<BR>Lots of details on who came from where, married whom etc. (AND there is a job application form to go and work for HM.)<BR>By the way, on our "European Union", "British" passports we are "Citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"<BR>Interesting thread.

After Elizabeth had executed Queen Mary in 1587, and died herself in 1603 without issue, James VI of Scotland became James I of England. This became known as the Union of the Crowns. He moved to England and settled into his greater domain easily, never returning to Scotland. He died in 1625.<BR><BR>So yes, Scotland and England were joined pre 1707.<BR>

entertaining thread.<BR><BR>sports seem to be more complicated than politics:<BR><BR>In most sports, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are lumped together as "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", on the continent generally called "Great Britain". The Republic of Ireland competes as separate Nation<BR><BR>In football (the real football, not its American cousin), England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Ireland all field their own national teams.<BR><BR>In rugby, England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland field teams. As I understand it, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland field a combined team.<BR><BR>Individuals occasionally tend to represent a Nation they are not a citizen of: On the continent atleast, the boxer Barry McGuigan was always designated "Irish" though, being born in Northern Ireland, technically he was a subject of HM the Queen...<BR><BR>was this the reason for Churchill to remark "no sports"?<BR><BR>Phil

It's not your citizenship/nationality that counts, but your ancestry.<BR><BR>Isn't the a large part of the Jamaican football team English, and who was that Anglo-Italian who played for Ireland with no Irish ancestry at all?

Tony Cascarino!! (hardly Seamus O'Hanrahan)

Well Phil, until someone coins the term "Uniteed Kingdomish" then Barry McGuigan certainly is Irish, in the same way that I'm English. Being called Irish does not denote whether you are Northern or Republic of.<BR><BR>But it seems from this discussion that Rugby seems to be the most depoliticised sport around. The Northern Irish play with the Southern Irish as a united tea, something that would cause blood to boil amongst half the northern Irish in any other situation, and Britain and Ireland play happily side by side as part of a united British and Irish Lions.<BR><BR>Perhaps the Rugby Associations should have a word with the politicians about friendship and cooperation.

Oooh Kate, I'd watch that one if I were you.<BR><BR>It's true that the majority of English regard the Northern Irish as Irish (and that the Troubles are the Irish fighting each other, not the Irish fighting the British) however try telling a "loyalist" that they are Irish, then pick your teeth out of the gutter.<BR><BR>Agreed on the Rugby "a thug's sport played by gentlemen"

kate:<BR><BR>Barry McGuigan is just an example, why us poor continentals will never be able to denote correctly, which entity we mean when talking about regions or parts of the British Isles (I hope this is politically correct enough .<BR><BR>I'm fully aware that, in English, "Irish" denotes people from Northern Ireland and the Republic.<BR><BR>BUT in French, German and Italian "Irlandais", "Irisch" and "Irlandese" generally refers to citizens of the Republic, whereas people from Northern Ireland are used to be subsummed to "Britannique", "Britisch" and "Britannico" respectively.<BR><BR>Please be tolerant with us poor ignorants ;-).<BR><BR>Phil.

Your contintental point of view is correct, however the sensibilities of the two opposing factions have to be considered. To elaborate on Spoon's point.<BR> <BR>Northern Ireland is technically British.<BR><BR>You have two communities:<BR><BR>Republican, want to unify with Ireland and are perfectly happy to be referred to as Irish, and wouldn't like to be called British.<BR><BR>Loyalist, want to remain British, are happy to be called British, and would rather drink the devil's bathwater than be referred to as Irish.<BR><BR>Barry McGuigan is Catholic, and would have republican leanings, and would be happy to be Irish. This said he had a protestant wife, and had massive support from both communities.<BR><BR>Getting it wrong is as bad as calling a Scot English, a Belgian French or an Austrian German.

Interesting thread. In addition, please accept that London is a city in England, and not the whole country (US citizens, be aware) I have read a message today stating London is famous for its countryside... *sigh* ;O)

its a hot potato