Just go back from dinner at Vagenende on Blvd St Germain. I didn't notice the $ amount until after signing the CC slip and asked them to redo the transaction in euros. The waiter first claimed that it <i>was</i> in euros and that the $ amount was just to show the equivalent amount (just like the franc equivalent shown). I didn't believe him, so he called over the head waiter, who claimed that there's no other way for them to do it-- that their machine just does that automatically.

I asked him to cancel the transaction and let me pay in cash, and he punched in some numbers on the machine but claimed that he couldn't get the cancellation to go through. (Should I have simply held on to the signed slip or torn it up?) He says I can go in tomorrow when the manager is there and speak to her. What I need to know now is what happens if I make her reverse the transaction-- would I end up getting charged double conversion fees, once for the original transaction and again for the refund?

Get in touch with your credit card company and tell them you're disputing the charge, and that the restaurant is in breach of the terms and conditions for using credit cards (as they are).

That's an interesting question as I think a refund is basically putting money into your CC account rather than taking it out, so there would likely be a fee for that if it were in a foreign currency -- I guess. I actually did have a refund once by SNCF, but I think I used a CC that had no foreign currency conversion fee, I usually do abroad. I'll check my bills if I can remember to see, but I don't think it will help.

Good question about ripping up the slip, as supposedly they need a signature to prove you charged something if it is disputed, and if you dispute it and they can't come up with one, I guess it could be denied. However, the situation isn't really them stealing your card (which that would imply), so I kind of think you might not want to get into that and try to resolve it properly with the manager.

How bad was the difference? I admit if it were not more than a couple percent, I probably wouldn't take my time to go back, even though I would be mad.

This is the first I've heard of DCC in Paris, actually, I guess it's a virus spreading. The moral is that you really have to look at things carefully before signing anywhere now, I guess.

Hi MF,

I am sorry to hear that.

The 6-8 times that we have had dinner there, this did not happen.

I agree with PL. If the manager won't give you the difference between the Euro amount and the Dollar amount in cash, dispute the claim.

You should write on the slip, if possible, "local currency not offered" or equivalent to show that you disputed the charge to begin with.

The difference is tiny, so it just a matter of principle (and being mad). I'd gladly spend time at home to fight stuff like this (done it with a parking ticket that was given to me by mistake, even though it was cheap), but I guess vacation time, especially here, is more valuable so I'll probably just let it go and be more careful in the future.

Before this, I had only encountered DCC once, at a clothing store in London, but that time the salesperson promptly changed it upon request.

Ira, I wish I had thought to write that-- I'll keep that in mind for the future.

It's interesting what happens here....you really don't want them to credit your account for the amount, you want the transaction cancelled. Any credit card transactin can be cancelled so it's nonsense if they say they can't.
but you see if they give you a credit for the amount in euro and it is converted to USD say the fees work out in such a way that you don't get the same amount back, you get less (on a currency transaction credit card companies add a fee to a purchase and subtract a fee from a refund)....

Don't go back to the restaurant; simply when the bill comes with the your bank open up a billing error dispute; explain what happened and insist on a chargeback to the merchant which they will do but here's a possible problem...the USD right now is sinking so when the chargeback reaches the merchant, the merchant will send the transaction through without dcc but the conversion will be at the rate of the euro on that day which will probably (although not necessarily) be worse than what it was the day of the transaction.

If you don't mind an exchange of letters with your cc company, fight it at home.

But it's interesting they used the same two lies I always point out when I write about dcc i.e. the USD amount listed is just an approximation to assist you and the terminal does it automatically and we have no control over it.

As somebody else has pointed out, dcc has really not been much of a problem in France in the past but I guess the malignancy is spreading.

I had the same problem in Spain a few years ago. They played dumb and claimed it was in both dollars and euro. They claimed it was their only option (they actually have to select the dual currencies to make it happen) and then all of a sudden lost the ability to speak English. This was on a 275€ bill. I had a taxi waiting and a train to catch so didn't bother fighting it.

I discussed it with my credit card company when I got home. I don't believe a signature is actually required (internet purchases don't have signatures).

So here's the general way to handle this, even if there is a language problem...

1. If they pull this scam on you, politely ask them to cancel the transaction and re-do it the proper way in local currency.

2. If they pull one of the lies (transaction cannot be cancelled, your currency amount is just an approximatin for your convenience, they have no control over it) ask to see the manager. If they pull the no speak English bit (hard to do in some countries such as England, Scotland, Ireland) do the following:

a. On the sales slip circle the local currency amount and cross out your currency amount (please note they don't pull this just on Americans, they can pull this on citizens of any country...it is converted to your currency so if you're from Ireland and they pull this on you in the UK, the slip will list an amount first in sterling then in your currency which in this case is euro) and instead of signing the sales slip, write "local currency not offered."

b. When you arrive home, and the bill comes through on your credit card statement using the dcc amount, open up a billing error dispute with the credit card company. Now here Americans may have some advantages over others as American laws regarding credit cards have more protections for the consumer than in most other countries although it's not perfect)..in the USA the company is required to investigate...what they usually do is charge back the transaction to the merchant, put the ball in the merchant's court and the merchant will be required to produce the signed credit card slip which of course the merchant will not have as you didn't sign the slip but rather wrote local currency option not offered. What will usually happen is the merchant will then charge you in local currency. The caveat, as I mentioned above, is you have no idea what your currency will do against the merchant's currency in the interim. It could be better, it could be worse. It won't most assuredly likely be the same. You may win, you may lose.

But let's make it clear, both visa and mc regulations clearly state the merchant may not pull this scam without perrmission of the scamee (namely you), the merchant must offer the option of paying in local currency and the terminals all clearly ask the merchant before the transaction is completed whether the customer wishes to pay in local currency or be scammed oops pay in his or her currency. I've seen these terminals in action and most assuredly the merchant is asked this.

It is a growing problem; especially since many oft he credit card cmpanies all the better to further scam their customers now put a foreign transaction fee on every transaction that takes place outside the customer's home country (although some such as Capital One and Schwab don't) even those done in your currency.

Incidentally, American Express does not allow merchants to pull this scam. All American Express charges must be done in local currency, another of the reasons some merchants don't like to accept Amex.

bookmarking

My refund was on a card that didn't have a foreign transaction fee, so I couldn't compare.

I understand the principle of the thing and actually wish you would go to the manager to complain as I'd be interested in their response and it also sends a message. I just know I myself probably would balance that versus my vacation time and might not if it wasn't a big difference, unless I were in the immediate area again without going out of my way. But I admire someone who does take the time to do that, as if no one ever complains, they will think this is okay.

Here is my feeling on this...

DCC is a cancer and it is spreading and is evidenced by the op as for the most part it had not reached into France until now...unless we all get together and tell these scammers to go to hell, they will keep scamming us.

DCC is one big scam....I don't see how anybody can say it isn't. Remember what somebody once said to fight cancers like this, "JUST SAY NO."

I have used my UK credit card in Spain recently at Hipercor, a supermarket chain under El Corte Ingles, who use DCC. When the total was rung up, I was asked clearly by the cashier whether I want to pay in euro or sterling. I said euro of course, thereupon she circled the euro amount on her copy and printed out my receipt, which only showed euro amount. Full marks for complying with Visa rules - no marks for even trying on this scam!

Hi Fifi, sorry this happened to you. I hope you don't let this ruin your vacation mood!

<i>I said euro of course, thereupon she circled the euro amount on her copy and printed out my receipt, which only showed euro amount. Full marks for complying with Visa rules - no marks for even trying on this scam!</i>

Are you sure? When I've declined DCC in Scotland, the bill did not include any reference to dollar amounts. If you still have your credit card statement, check on http://www.xe.com/ccc/ to see if that was truly the case.

Alec...

That's new for El Corte Ingles...they were a big offender for a while with the we have no control over it or the your currency amount is just an approximation lies or of course no speak English....perhpas complaints have reached the credit card companies which threatened them with loss of their ability to take mc/visa which in this case could be devestating to a company like then.

But again, everybody reading this thread, it's simple...

Just say no.

When merchants/vendors use DCC, the processing equipment detects your currency and displays the amount on one side in the local currency and your currency on the other. They are required to ASK if you wish to pay in your currency (which, as emphasized above, is never, ever, a good idea), BEFORE the transaction is approved and the slip printed for you to sign.

I was caught off guard when checking out of the hotel in Paris a month ago. There was a €14 bar charge on the hotel bill. The clerk showed me the screen and asked if US dollars would be okay, and, not thinking, I said yes. But, I immediately came to my senses and told him NO. So, the transaction was processed in Euros. I did notice that the amount in US Dollars was $22.XX, so the hotel's rate of exchange would have been 1.57 versus the XE rate that day of 1.47.

Of course, you are not really charged in US Dollars, as that amount is converted back to Euros, in this case the amount would have been €15 (rather than the original €14), which would then be converted to dollars by my credit card company plus a currency transaction fee (if any, but I used a Capital One card).

My hotel bill was prepaid (special prepaid promotional rate). But, had I been settling a €1400 hotel bill, the difference would have been a whopping €100!

I'm not sure how successful anyone would be disputing the transaction after having signed the slip with the vendor or the credit card company.

The vendor will, no doubt, swear up and down you were given a choice. And, people, when asked a question in a foreign language, tend to just nod their head in the affirmative whether they understand or not.

For this particular situation to be remedied, the transaction would have to be cancelled or changed to zero, then reprocessed.

They always give you two slips. One for yourself and one to sign. Whether you've signed it or not, you could just refuse to give it to them, so they would have to re-do the transaction, as they have to have the signed slip in case of a dispute. Most slips do not have room for writing anything on them. So far as I know, a signature IS most certainly required whenever a card has been swiped.

So, I <i>was</i> in the area the following day and could have gone in to argue with the manager but decided not to, because once I start something like that, I'd get obsessed with it for a long time, and wasn't worth it to ruin a whole week's vacation being in a bad mood over a couple of dollars. I WILL, however, look at all CC slips much more carefully in the future.