Hi - any suggestions on which of the mountain passes is most scenic? I did it years ago but can't remember if I took the Sustenpass or Furkapass / Grimselpass. I do remember going into an ice cave and the only one i can find info about is the Rhone Gletcher Ice Cave. Is there also one on the Sustenpass? Any advice would be most welcome.

Must be the Furka Pass and the Rhone glacier ice cave. Sounds of too much of a detour to me, though. I would take the Susten pass (if at all, I would probably drive directly via Lucerne - Brünig).

I agree with Ingo. If you take the Furka Pass route, you will then have to drive over the Grimsel pass to get to Wengen.

I think both are very scenic, but they are a bit out of the way.

You have two choices of routes. One is to take the authbahn toward Bern, then Spiez and Interlaken Ost.

There will be a turn south to Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald

I suggest Lauterbrunnen where there is a large parking deck. Leave your car there and take the train to Wengen.

You don't drive to Wengen.

Your other route is to head toward Luzern from Zürich and continue on to Sarnen and down the Brünig Pass toward Meiringen and Brienz. You go to neither however. Watch for the main road to Interlaken and turn south as indicated above.

Sorry, I meant to say that I do want to take the most scenic route - rather than the fastest route. I only get to the Alps every 20 years or so, and this will be a first visit for my 14 year old daughter. We have a whole day to get from Zurich to Lauterbrunnen and know how special this can be. I guess I did take the Sustenpass back in the 80's and thought it was incredible. But is there another ice cave besides the Rhone Gletcher Ice Cave?

There's no other ice cave along either route. But if you plan to go up to the Jungfraujoch later from Wengen you'll have the *real* ice cave experience. The one at the Furka Pass is a *nothing* compared to the one on top of Jungfraujoch.

If you want to drive the most scenic route then drive Zurich - Zug - Brunnen - Flüelen - Andermatt - Furka Pass - Gletsch - Grimsel Pass - Meiringen - Brienz - Interlaken - Lauterbrunnen.

I have actually done the above route on a day drive to and from Zurich, so going to Wengen is certainly doable, it is a very long day, but is a great, great dive if you get one of those glorious sunny Swiss days. In summer of course the days are very long so if you get an early start you really have until like 9 pm or later as it will still be quite light even in the mountains. Do NOT do this on a weekend, too many motorcycles and other traffic. If you can, even avoid Fridays and Mondays as there may be some residual weekend traffic. You will hit a little traffic around Zug in the morning most likely which is rush hour. If it is at all possible to rent a convertible I would try to do so.

You could also easily do a circut of the Susten/Furka AND Grimsel passes in a day from Zurich to Wengen. I have done this in a day drive from Zurich as well. Just drive from Zurich to Meiringen (via Lucerne and the Brunig Pass). This will take about 1.5 hours. Once at the intersection near Meiringen, go left (east) to the Susten Pass and up and over, go through Andermatt, come back via the Furka and Grimsel passes, and back down into Meiringen. Then go left (west) and into the Interlaken and Wengen.

ANOTHER pass to consider including would be the Klausenpass, which at 2500 meters is actually higher than any of the above passes and offers some spetacular views. To do this, rather than getting off the highway from Zurich and heading toward Zug, you would continue straight and drive to Neiderunen and then head south up into the mountains there. You would continue until you came down into Fluelen and then go south, from there you would have to choose to take either the Furka/Grimsel or the Susten passes (you have to choose one). You might want to plot out a route including all these passes on Map Quest using the various towns along the route as points (otherwise it will route you via highways which is not what you want) to see how long it would take to do all these in a day (something I have not attempted.)

If the weather does not cooperate with you, stop off in Zug which has a very charming old town with painted buildings (hard to find in Switzerland) and have lunch at the Gausthaus Rathauskeller (rathauskeller.ch). Also head to Weggis and Vitznau and perhaps stop off at either of these charming towns (lunch at the Park Hotel in Vitznau is another possiblity). Then take the car ferry from Gersau just south of Vitznau accross to Beckenreib and on to Lucerne (saving the drive time, as a lot of this is on highway and includes a long bit in a tunnel, and the car ferry is actually fun, website is at http://www.autofaehre.ch/) ) You can stop in Lucerne perhaps for tea and a look. All this will be low altitude but still pretty along the lakes. You can then drive on to Wengen from there, you will drive up the low Brunig Pass, still pretty. Either on this trip or the way back to Zurich you should stop for a meal outdoors on the terrace of the wonderful Gasthaus Brunig Kulm (.bruenig-kulm.ch) which hangs off the cliff with a great valley view just about at the top of the Brunig Pass. This is one of the last places I know of other than the Villa d'este in Como that will prepare crepes suzette at your table. You can then shopping for antiques (and cowbells!) at the little shop just beyond that (shop is open Sundays, quite unusual for Switzerland).

Get a good map. You can buy them in gas stations. Get one for each canton you will be in if you can or for eastern Switzerland so it has some detail. German versions do not matter and may help as the town names will be written as locals would know them. I always find signage to be quite poor, but there are generally two ways to reach any town: the fast way (via the green signs for the highway or other direct route) and the scenic way (via the blue signs). Take the blue when at all possible. (A white sign with black letters is a really small back road and can lead to nowhere, but can also be fun.) For example, from downtown Zurich to get to Zug, I personally would not take the boring highway (the green route) initially, but would take the lovely and scenic Seestrasee (the blue route) along the lake for the first 15-20 minutes until you get to Thawil, then I would go up and over the hill and intersect with the E41 highway to Zug/Lucerne. You need a map which will show the connecting roads and towns, however. From Meiringen, the blue route to Interlaken/Jungfrau will take you along the lovely north shore of lake Brienz with some great mountain views and little towns, and will avoid the highway and some longish tunnels on the south shore. You will connect back in Interlaken with the main highway and take that for a little bit west to the cut off for the Jungfrau valley and Wengen (well, Latuerbrunnen where you will have to park the car and take the train up to Wengen).

Thanks so much everyone - fabulous advice!

Yes. This is good advice. You could not pay for better!!

I consider myself experienced at travel in parts of Switzerland, but even I have gotten some good ideas from these postings.

We are indeed fortunate to have the crew of Swiss experts who post here.
They dispense advice even the guidebooks do not know to tell you.

There should be good snow on the Jungfrau this year. I think the rain in the Interlaken - Lauterbrunnen - Grindelwald area has been falling as snow on the Jungfraujoch.

I just hope the rain has turned to sun soon. Lucky me, I am not due there until mid August.

Thought you would be amused to know that our dogs were named Furka and Grimsel.

According to Mapquest Europe (I didn't know they covered Europe as well!) the distance for:
Zurich - Zug - Brunnen - Flüelen - Andermatt - Furka Pass - Gletsch - Grimsel Pass - Meiringen - Brienz - Interlaken - Lauterbrunnen
is approximately 150 miles. The estimated driving time is 3 hours 20 minutes. I'm guessing 7 hours would be realistic with a lunch stop, Furka ice cave visit?

Yes, 7 hours is realistic, maybe you can do it in 6 hours. It depends on traffic. Pass roads are favourites (on sunny days at least and weekends) of cyclists.

If the driving time is 3 and a half hours for the route you describe, I don't want to be in the car as a passenger. I think 4 hours would be pushing it.

Good answers above. I've done it all except for the ice caves. During our motorcycle days, we'd just zoom past everything.

From Zürich, my favourite route above would be the Klausenpass (exit Autobahn towards Glarnerland right before Walensee), go over the Klausen pass, come down to Bürgeln, drive a bit up the Urner valley, and then drive over the Susten pass. You'll then be in Wengen very soon afterwards.

Klausen pass is one of my favourite passes because it has everything: green fields, brown Swiss with bells, tight curvy roads and lots of mountains. It doesn't have ice caves though. If you're afraid of heights and narrow roads, this might be a pass to avoid.

And the advice about weekdays vs. weekends is very good. Lots of traffic on weekends so go during the week if possible.

>brown Swiss with bells

Somehow I think you are referring to cows..