StKnicks

This is just a quick apology to spartacus for the unintended hijacking.

It's just that bringing in duties and tariffs and other information NOT applicable to the BMW program by someone who obviously have not done the program confuses the exchange of useful information.

Enjoy your new bimmer, and I realize that you may still be planning your driving routes, here's a couple of good driving roads (where you may want to experience the mid-range capabilities of your car, i.e.going over 120 mph is easily doable, with safe, responsible and good driving) :
A9 from Leipzig to Berlin ; and
the autobahn going south to Garmiche.

Good luck.

hopscotch

Spartacus,

It looks like your thread has been kidnaped and abused, albeit by some very interesting discussion no less. To add to my story, I had bought my Porsche a few months before I was asked to transfer to Holland. Instead of taking a loss on selling it I shipped it over and drove throughout Europe in my spare time. Two years later I shipped it back to California. I looked into foreign delivery and gray market several times after that but never did either. Now I prefer the trains.

As for the Romantic Road, I did it once. It was in January. The trip was uneventful, that is, safe and sound. The road was clear and there was little traffic. Speed limits are normal inter-city, 130kph/80mph I believe. Village speed limits are 50, whether posted as a number on round sign boards or not. Obey these limits because German cops use hidden radar with stobe lights and cameras. Of course, in your case where are they going to mail the notice of violation?

There are very few stop signs. Instead, keep your eye out for inverted triangles which signal caution or yield. Most signs are iconic and easily understood. Anything with a diagonal line across it means NO or finished. Do not enter is a round red one with a broad horizontal white band across it. Qualifiers, such as certain hours or days of the week, are always in German. They are in the 24 hour system so 18 is 6 pm, etc. One way streets are marked with a white arrow on a black field accompanied by <i>einbahnstrasse</i>. Blue zone is free parking for a limited time as posted. <i>Stunden</i> is hours. Ask the BMW folks for a blue zone card and how to use it. A Berlitz &quot;German for Travelers&quot; pocket book would be a great resource for you.

As for your itinerary, I was not especially impressed on the Romantic Road but Rothenburg is good. My preference is to spend time in a cafe chatting with locals rather than visiting most museums and castles that I have been in. The Louvre in Paris and the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam are a couple of exceptions.

If I was to pick up a car in Munich with a destination of Paris I would swing south toward Innsbruck, drive across Switzerland (for the scenery) to Basel, pay my respects to Beaune (in Burgundy south of Dijon) for food and wine, and then bee line to Paris.

Your itinerary is a very personal thing, Spartacus. I suggest that you buy a Michelin Green Guide Germany and study your options. The book includes a number of good driving tours including the Romantic Road and Rothenburg which rates 3 stars in Michelin. For driving, also get the Michelin Red Guide which features Michelin recommended hotels and restaurants in various price ranges.

Budman: The Porsche/Rolex joke is an old one from Southern California that featured a Yuppie in a Beamer. You left out the part about his girlfriend who died in the crash.

fishskis

FYI Traveler....No, the M, unfortunately, is not available for Euro delivery. I have heard a story or two about an M pickup in Germany, but without the discount; I am wary of believing these stories.

RufusTFirefly

I have a German friend who comes to the USA frequently for business and pleasure. He likes to drive fast. He always mentions his frustration at the low speed limits on the interstate highways &quot;Such beautiful wide roads, and we must creep along.&quot;

Note that, while Germans might be better drivers overall than Americans (though I've never seen any hard evidence to back this up), the injury and death rates per kilometers driven are higher in Germany (and most of Europe) than in the USA. So be careful on those Autobahns.

spartacus_33

Hopscotch,

I logged in to the forum this morning and saw a huge number of responses to my post.... but...you are correct, the thread has definately been hijacked! Interesting reading though.

My dealer has the European Delivery thing &quot;down pat&quot;, (they do about 40 a year). I intend to ask them about the snow tire issue today. I'll post their reply later.

I bought a large Michelin map of Germany, last week and have been studying it, but will take your advice and check out your suggested route. Does your route skirt along the bottom of the mountains or are there passes to drive over?

Thanks,
Spartacus_33

mikemo

Re: M 3 Euro Delivery: Dan Tackett the US driving school rep for the annual BMW event at der Nurburgring and a former BMW CCA VP led a group of 12 North Americans to Munich in Aug '02 each of whom took del of a new M 3. I think it's still possible, but without any savings.
M

Traveler863

Rufus,
Your statistics, while might be correct, inadequately show the real picture. What you say is the injury/death rate per km is higher in Germany than US, however Germany is far more densily populated than US as a whole. That is like comparing CA or NY to the whole US. Germany is not the highest with injury/death rates in Europe, Portugal leads the pack, followed closely by Italy and France.

The drivers are more skilled, not just Germany but other nations as well. In particularly driver's eduation is more stringent, driving age is generally 18 and the mindset of most Europeans is not to talk on their cellphones, drink, eat, shave, read the newspaper, etc behind the wheel. Nor do they park themselves in the left lane upon entering a highway. They have a far greater awareness of what is going on around them, where US drivers tend to be oblivious...and thats scarey. Sorry Spartacus I'm part of the hijacking but yes is interesting reading and responses. Best of luck to you in your Euro delivery. I agree with poster that recommends hooking slightly into Switzerland. Beautiful place. Hope you post your trip report.

Robespierre

<b>StKnicks, get over here immediately!</b>

There are thread hijackers on the loose, and they are talking about <u>vehicular death rates</u>, of all things, on this thread which you have designated as <font color="red">Getting A Performance Car At A Discount That Pays For A Short Vacation</font> and declared all other subjects off-limits. Have they no respect for authority? Don't they know a bigshot when they see one?

If you don't put a stop to this immediately, who knows where it will lead? To jokes about severed limbs and yuppie acquisitiveness? Completely off topic. Do something!

Oh, and I found out about the duty on BMWs: the &quot;New Vehicle&quot; tariff rate is built into the ED MSRP, so if the vehicle is dutiable at a lower rate as &quot;used,&quot; BMW keeps the difference.

Traveler863

This has been a great thread, I found out you can't get a real PERFORMANCE vehicle (M) through Euro delivery, this is disappointing but managable.

Budman

I agree, this has been a great thread. In fact, it has inspired me to the extent that I am now seriously thinking of getting my BMW in the Fall of 2005 instead of the Spring of 2006.

No 545i for me. I can't afford the gas.

Traveler863

Budman,
Careful on the jump...tis why I don't have an M3 now....got impatient, they were coming out when I wanted a car but 6 month wait....so ordered the 330.

Tweeter

Hi all, I am curious if any of you frequent the Bimmerfest.com Euro delivery forum? It doesn't have nearly the traffic of fodors, but it does have some very useful info on BMW Euro delivery, especially for first-timers and driving through Europe in winter! Enjoy planning!

StKnicks

Robsperrie wrote &quot;Oh, and I found out about the duty on BMWs: the &quot;New Vehicle&quot; tariff rate is built into the ED MSRP, so if the vehicle is dutiable at a lower rate as &quot;used,&quot; BMW keeps the difference.&quot;

So, who the $&amp;*# cares?

It took you all this time to realize this. If I can draw it in pictures, I would do it for you, but here's the synopsis anyway: Would-be car owner purchases brand new BMW at local US dealer. Car and options are discounted (say, for 545i that I bought, around $6000 off MSRP). Would-be car owner has to pick up BRAND NEW car in Munich. Would-be car owner drops-off car at selected city. Would-be car owner don't care about tariff and duty even if would-be car owner drove car 100,000 miles or just 1 mile within 30 days in Europe, as would-be car owner paid for and received brand new car as per would-be car-owners purchase specification. Car would be shipped to car owner's dealer in the US. Would-be car owner drives car from dealer, after some detailing job by dealer, after about 3 months.

Somehow, Roby, since you didn't understand this tarriff issue and has to do extensive research on it, it's hard to believe your claims that you bought Euro-Delivery before. The Volkswagen story and the your flight steward jobs, definitely believable.

Now, leave these nice people alone with their usefuls exhange on driving speeds in Europe, or doing ED on M-cars (I can explain all this if you want, but prefer to do it in private e-mail).

Budman

Traveler863, I already know what I want -- just going after it 9 months earlier.

Robespierre

It didn't really require &quot;extensive research&quot; - a glance at the BMW site quickly revealed what I posted just above. The reason this came up originally is that every time I have imported a car*, the Tourist Delivery price did NOT include the duty or transportation. This allowed the buyer to keep a few more percentage points rather than just forking over extra profit to the dealer. My thinking was that perhaps I could have saved OP a few hundred bucks, but it was not to be.

<i>p.s.</i> Reading Comprehension Clinic: nowhere did I state that I ever was a flight attendant. If you would like a copy of the documentation for the highly innovative computer systems I designed for airlines, hotels, and oil refineries, I will be glad to provide them at cost. Since retiring, I have also implemented several World Wide Web facilities, one of which is pending U.S. Patent approval. E-mail robspierreatmbidsldotcom for particulars.

* 3 VWs, 240-Z, 280-Z, Volvo 244DL, SLK230.

RufusTFirefly

Why can't we all just get along?
R. King

StKnicks

&quot;...was a flight attendant. If you would like a copy of the documentation for the highly innovative computer systems I designed for airlines, hotels, and oil refineries, I will be glad to provide them at cost. Since retiring, I have also implemented several World Wide Web facilities, one of which is pending U.S. Patent approval. E-mail robspierreatmbidsldotcom for particulars.&quot;

More un-related and superficial information from Robsperry.

240Z an 280Z !!! Man, if I knew all you wanted to drive was a Datsun, we all could have pictched in and advised you not to go Euro delivery.

TravelsWithStDavid

We have driven through Germany many times in the winter. My suggestion would be to buy a set of European chains and have them demonstrated to you. We were caught in a terrible blizzard enroute between Como and Briancon, France. We snapped on the chains which are very easy to mount and had no trouble at all. They are far cheaper than snow tires and more effective. Saint David brought them home to the US where we have used them many times, grateful every time that they are so much easier to put on than American chains.

StKnicks

Unless somebody (attn: Rospberry) sidetracks this thread, again, there's a slew of different suggestions here.
Chains are definitely safe. Probably safer than snow tires. There's a compromise to be weighed against, as chains may cause unnecessary and un-sightly wear-and-tear on the finish of brand new wheels of a BMW which are quite costly. Plus you'll have to stop and install these in inclement weather.

On the other hand, since safety is the utmost consideration, then chains are quite efficient.

spartacus_33

Good morning,

If you all looked at the original statement for this thread, it reads, &quot;Driving through Germany in Feb., (Please Help). If you all insist on carrying on and debating about Euro Delivery, I would suggest logging in bimmerfest.com and attend the European Delivery threads.

I've already done that.. and came here for driving (routes) suggestions, rather than bother those people on bimmerfest.

Thanks,
Spartacus_33 ;-)