Driving manual vehicle in europe
Jan 5th, 2007, 02:35 PM
#21
We've got lots of motor homes here in Europe. But just like our apartments, shopping carts and cereal boxes, they are only half the size as compared to US standards.
I think driving a motor home around Germany France and Italy OR Austria Hungary and Czech Republic would be great.
I think driving a motor home around Germany France and Italy OR Austria Hungary and Czech Republic would be great.
Jan 5th, 2007, 03:16 PM
#22
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i read through this entire thread without seeing a shred of sanity until the very last post from schuler.
motorhomes are very popular here in europe. as schuler says, they are smaller than what most of the posters are thinking of. it's unfortunate that so many just picture the OP as some idiot trying to drive around in a 'US style' motorhome...all the while expecting 'walmart parking lots' to be everywhere (this comment still baffles me).
motorhomes/caravans/camping cars/whatever are all over europe. i'm not sure why people think it's so odd to want to do this. if he has some experience with this style of travel then he should do it (after careful planning and preparation).
i'm surprised at how many people brought up the petrol issue. almost all vehicles of this nature will be diesel, not petrol, and the efficiency of a small motorhome burning diesel is not so bad compared to many large petrol luxury saloons.
a trip like this takes a lot of planning but it is not impossible nor is it stupid.
best advice is to try to do some google searching to find some associations of people who travel like this in europe (there are many, many people who do but very few or none here).
i recently met a couple here in england who drove their small motorhome from ENGLAND TO SINGAPORE....then on to the US and canada via ocean transport. drove all over north america including mexico. they did this after retirement at age 60.
my best advice is not to be dragged down by these naysayers...the majority of whom have a one-dimensional view of europe. it's refreshing to see someone who actually has an interest in doing a little bit more than sitting in a paris cafe pretending to be european.
good luck and if you pull this off your experiences will greatly overshadow the vast majority of travel experiences detailed ad nauseam on this board.
motorhomes are very popular here in europe. as schuler says, they are smaller than what most of the posters are thinking of. it's unfortunate that so many just picture the OP as some idiot trying to drive around in a 'US style' motorhome...all the while expecting 'walmart parking lots' to be everywhere (this comment still baffles me).
motorhomes/caravans/camping cars/whatever are all over europe. i'm not sure why people think it's so odd to want to do this. if he has some experience with this style of travel then he should do it (after careful planning and preparation).
i'm surprised at how many people brought up the petrol issue. almost all vehicles of this nature will be diesel, not petrol, and the efficiency of a small motorhome burning diesel is not so bad compared to many large petrol luxury saloons.
a trip like this takes a lot of planning but it is not impossible nor is it stupid.
best advice is to try to do some google searching to find some associations of people who travel like this in europe (there are many, many people who do but very few or none here).
i recently met a couple here in england who drove their small motorhome from ENGLAND TO SINGAPORE....then on to the US and canada via ocean transport. drove all over north america including mexico. they did this after retirement at age 60.
my best advice is not to be dragged down by these naysayers...the majority of whom have a one-dimensional view of europe. it's refreshing to see someone who actually has an interest in doing a little bit more than sitting in a paris cafe pretending to be european.
good luck and if you pull this off your experiences will greatly overshadow the vast majority of travel experiences detailed ad nauseam on this board.
Jan 5th, 2007, 03:28 PM
#23
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thank you very much for your comments, but I thought my post was sane.
FYI I think the reference to Walmart parking lots is that in the US that is a very large general merchandise store in more suburban or rural areas with huge parking lots, and they allow people to park their RVs there overnight. I think that's what that must mean.
FYI I think the reference to Walmart parking lots is that in the US that is a very large general merchandise store in more suburban or rural areas with huge parking lots, and they allow people to park their RVs there overnight. I think that's what that must mean.
Jan 5th, 2007, 03:48 PM
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yes, christina...your post is very sane and did do a service to correct some of the strange assumptions that everyone jumped to. also, i missed some others, like barbara's. i do apologise.
i do know what a walmart is...and i'll certainly have to ask all of the 10s of thousands of caravan travellers here in europe how they possibly manage to pursue their passion for caravanning without the help of walmart car parks.
i do know what a walmart is...and i'll certainly have to ask all of the 10s of thousands of caravan travellers here in europe how they possibly manage to pursue their passion for caravanning without the help of walmart car parks.
Jan 5th, 2007, 05:04 PM
#25
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Many of those who caravan around Europe *OWN* their RVs, have driven around Europe before, and can drive stick. The OP will have to rent, hasn't driven *anywhere* in Europe before, and can't drive stick. And wants to cover a LOT of territory in a fairly short period of time.
Most of the posters are not one-dimensional naysayers, merely pointing out that driving a rented RV from France to Poland is quite different from driving one from Montana to Kansas along the interstates.
The simple fact is that there ARE often limitations on taking any kind of rented vehicle from Western Europe to Eastern Europe. If the OP wanted to drive a rented RV only through France and Germany, for example, my response would NOT have been the same.
Most of the posters are not one-dimensional naysayers, merely pointing out that driving a rented RV from France to Poland is quite different from driving one from Montana to Kansas along the interstates.
The simple fact is that there ARE often limitations on taking any kind of rented vehicle from Western Europe to Eastern Europe. If the OP wanted to drive a rented RV only through France and Germany, for example, my response would NOT have been the same.
Jan 5th, 2007, 06:29 PM
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With all the suggestions of learning to drive a manual before you go, no one seems to be explaining how that's possible. Put this 60 year old on the list who has NEVER learned to drive one. I grew up with automatic cars and simply never had the chance. A few years ago I was going to learn. But NO ONE I know well enough to borrow a car has a standard shift car, and I called EVERY car rental agency and NOT ONE had a manual car for rent. I gave up once again.
Meanwhile it seems a number of people didn't read the original post. Didn't trip say they can't find a motorhome that is automatic? How come several people offer the simple advice of splurging to rent an automatic? Where should he get one when they apparently aren't available?
Meanwhile it seems a number of people didn't read the original post. Didn't trip say they can't find a motorhome that is automatic? How come several people offer the simple advice of splurging to rent an automatic? Where should he get one when they apparently aren't available?
Jan 5th, 2007, 07:24 PM
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To reinforce what trip2006 said at the beginning, I looked at several motorhome agencies in Europe and could not find a single vehicle that was automatic. All were diesel engines in the 2.3 to 3.0 liter range with manual transmissions.
In running through cost estimates, I looked at camper vans, and thought that might be a viable option until I found that one had to pay extra for a porta potty to take along.
A full motor home will run about €4500 for 4 weeks before diesel fuel, parking fees, rental of equipment (like sheets, towels, etc.) and cleaning fees.
My original estimate of $6,000 for a 4 week rental period might be a little low because even diesel fuel will run around $6.00 a gallon at current exchange rates, which could easily run up a fuel bill of $500.
Around big cities, I have no idea where one parks overnight or what camping fees would run.
I know where to put the motor home in Switzerland, but then the question arises of to where do you drive it?!
As for learning how to drive a stick shift, I have no real good idea. I grew up with them. My wife learned to drive one when I bought one in 1960. She was about 25 at the time. She told me and our son to to get out of the car and leave her be.
I had to go and hide and pray the vehicle still had a clutch when she got through learning. (It did.)
She learned so well, that from 1983 to 1986 she drove a 5-speed Stanza. And when we are in Europe now, driving a 5 or even 6 speed manual is no problem. She does the driving most of the time to save on the second driver fee.
The fact that she is now 70 is no hinderance. She can slap the gears around quite well!!
I have always been quite happy that I learned how on a manual, with my first 4 speed vehicle being a Farmall tractor!!
My own car at the moment is a 5-speed Camry and my 13 year old grandson thinks his grandfather is a bit funny.
In running through cost estimates, I looked at camper vans, and thought that might be a viable option until I found that one had to pay extra for a porta potty to take along.
A full motor home will run about €4500 for 4 weeks before diesel fuel, parking fees, rental of equipment (like sheets, towels, etc.) and cleaning fees.
My original estimate of $6,000 for a 4 week rental period might be a little low because even diesel fuel will run around $6.00 a gallon at current exchange rates, which could easily run up a fuel bill of $500.
Around big cities, I have no idea where one parks overnight or what camping fees would run.
I know where to put the motor home in Switzerland, but then the question arises of to where do you drive it?!
As for learning how to drive a stick shift, I have no real good idea. I grew up with them. My wife learned to drive one when I bought one in 1960. She was about 25 at the time. She told me and our son to to get out of the car and leave her be.
I had to go and hide and pray the vehicle still had a clutch when she got through learning. (It did.)
She learned so well, that from 1983 to 1986 she drove a 5-speed Stanza. And when we are in Europe now, driving a 5 or even 6 speed manual is no problem. She does the driving most of the time to save on the second driver fee.
The fact that she is now 70 is no hinderance. She can slap the gears around quite well!!
I have always been quite happy that I learned how on a manual, with my first 4 speed vehicle being a Farmall tractor!!
My own car at the moment is a 5-speed Camry and my 13 year old grandson thinks his grandfather is a bit funny.
Jan 6th, 2007, 02:06 AM
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Hi trip,
Not to restate the obvious, but I don't think anyone is being a naysayer, they are just looking out for your personal wellbeing. Much as I too think it would be great fun to RV around Europe, I think there are too many votes against you. You are not comfortable driving a manual (let alone a manual RV), you have never driven in Europe, and you want to go to Eastern Europe. Recalling how painful it was to learn to drive a manual in college, and add to that how different the driving is in Europe (I've lived in Germany for over a year now and still can't get over how narrow the streets and parking spaces are), I would never want to learn to drive a manual in Europe, let alone an RV (even a "small" European RV is a behemoth here). And as others have said, I doubt a rental company would let you take it to Eastern Europe.
If you decide to rent a car instead, I would even consider shelling out for an automatic in your situation, especially if you want to drive in the mountains.
Not to restate the obvious, but I don't think anyone is being a naysayer, they are just looking out for your personal wellbeing. Much as I too think it would be great fun to RV around Europe, I think there are too many votes against you. You are not comfortable driving a manual (let alone a manual RV), you have never driven in Europe, and you want to go to Eastern Europe. Recalling how painful it was to learn to drive a manual in college, and add to that how different the driving is in Europe (I've lived in Germany for over a year now and still can't get over how narrow the streets and parking spaces are), I would never want to learn to drive a manual in Europe, let alone an RV (even a "small" European RV is a behemoth here). And as others have said, I doubt a rental company would let you take it to Eastern Europe.
If you decide to rent a car instead, I would even consider shelling out for an automatic in your situation, especially if you want to drive in the mountains.
Jan 6th, 2007, 06:03 AM
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Driving a motorhome around Europe - nice idea. Motorhomes here are not necessarily that large at all.
Driving through all those countries - you don't specify a time scale but we've assumed one month as you only mention May. Tight. You may not see much of the countries beyond main roads. That's assuming you will be allowed to take a rental all over.
Manual/automatic. Oh come on. It's not that hard to drive a manual. We all manage. Hardly anyone drives automatics over here (and they get given funny looks and comments!). You can't even get a full drivers license here if you don't drive a manual. There must be a driving school that can give you a few manual lessons. If not, hire a manual car for a day first and practise yourself in Europe, somewhere quiet of course.
Driving through all those countries - you don't specify a time scale but we've assumed one month as you only mention May. Tight. You may not see much of the countries beyond main roads. That's assuming you will be allowed to take a rental all over.
Manual/automatic. Oh come on. It's not that hard to drive a manual. We all manage. Hardly anyone drives automatics over here (and they get given funny looks and comments!). You can't even get a full drivers license here if you don't drive a manual. There must be a driving school that can give you a few manual lessons. If not, hire a manual car for a day first and practise yourself in Europe, somewhere quiet of course.
Jan 6th, 2007, 09:39 AM
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I don't think people are being Naysayers...just giving their honest opinion...which is what people come to the site for.
There is one extra dynamic...someone mentioned that trip2006 was from Australia. Driving on the opposite side of the road...no experience driving a stick....never driven in Europe before. I'm feeling stressed just thinking about it.
I know that I have probably watched too many episodes of Coronation Street but when I think of Caravan park....it really shatters my romantic image of a European vacation.
Just my three cents for what it's worth. trip2006 might have better luck finding a manual car to practice on in Australia than he would in the USA. I would try it for a week in at least a full size car or mini van and see how you feel. The hills are the tricky part...especially when someone is tailgating you like they do. In Tuscany and Umbria I said my prayer on several occasions when we ended up in narrow streets that we could barely navigate with a compact car.
Others mentioned the problem taking the vehicle into eastern Europe which is a definate concern. I just think there are too many cons which outweigh any pros that I can think of.
There is one extra dynamic...someone mentioned that trip2006 was from Australia. Driving on the opposite side of the road...no experience driving a stick....never driven in Europe before. I'm feeling stressed just thinking about it.
I know that I have probably watched too many episodes of Coronation Street but when I think of Caravan park....it really shatters my romantic image of a European vacation.
Just my three cents for what it's worth. trip2006 might have better luck finding a manual car to practice on in Australia than he would in the USA. I would try it for a week in at least a full size car or mini van and see how you feel. The hills are the tricky part...especially when someone is tailgating you like they do. In Tuscany and Umbria I said my prayer on several occasions when we ended up in narrow streets that we could barely navigate with a compact car.
Others mentioned the problem taking the vehicle into eastern Europe which is a definate concern. I just think there are too many cons which outweigh any pros that I can think of.
Jan 6th, 2007, 12:37 PM
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Neo/trip2006, regarding learning to drive a stick, you could try going to a Honda dealer and test-driving one of their manual transmission models. Driver Ed school might also be able to help, if you were really keen to learn. It is a wonderfully convenient skill to learn for travellers, and usually will help save money on rentals.
Jan 6th, 2007, 12:49 PM
#33
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If there's a will, there's a way. Not everybody here in the US drive automatics, and most of those that do learn it somehow here.
I learned by buying a cheap $600 BMW 1602 (like a 2002 but with smaller engine) one summer and just practiced and practiced. Then I bought a manual car even though I stalled it 3-4 times test-driving it.
Anyways, for those who care, manual diesels are a little bit easy to drive than manual gasoline vehicles as there's more low-end torque with diesels. It's therefore a little more difficult to stall and easy to start on a uphill.
I learned by buying a cheap $600 BMW 1602 (like a 2002 but with smaller engine) one summer and just practiced and practiced. Then I bought a manual car even though I stalled it 3-4 times test-driving it.
Anyways, for those who care, manual diesels are a little bit easy to drive than manual gasoline vehicles as there's more low-end torque with diesels. It's therefore a little more difficult to stall and easy to start on a uphill.
Jan 18th, 2007, 12:03 AM
#34
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Hello and thanks for all of your comments and ideas. I have been away since i posted this question and was suprised at how much interest it generated.
I guess I should give a little more info regarding my trip.
I have been planning this trip for a couple of years now and have been waiting for the right time work wise to go which has now become Mid April this year until June30th.
I will be in the uk for 3 weeks and in europe for 9 weeks. The campervan is just for the europe leg which will be 9 weeks.
I have researched all of the options for travelling europe including cheap flights, trains, car hire, and other than backpacking which i am a little too old for, motorhomes appear to be the cheapest way to travel around europe. It appears from my research that most who do it are retirees as it is usually something you do over a few months and most of us dont get that large a block of time until we retire.
I have grown up kids and have a large chunk of long service leave so we are lucky to have both the money and time to do it in our mid 40s.
Through Mcrent in Frankfurt you can take the vehicle into Poland, Hungary, Czech republic and Bulgaria. They do not allow any of the balkan countries or ex soviet bloc.
I drive a toyota hilux 4wd which is an automatic so i have experience driving a larger sized vehicle and yes the RV in europe is smaller than the the US and Oz. The vehicle we are hiring is 2.33mtres wide and 5.5mtres long. So it is not a giant vehicle.
Longer than my hilux but about the same width.
I take all of your comments regarding city driving and was not planning to do so as most of the larger cities have what appear to be very modern campsites which have transits run by them to and from the city centres. From my research it appears many europeans travel this way or camp. It is mainly us foreigners who stay in hotels etc.
Unfortunately I could not find an automatic vehicle and i think this is because they are only petrol models and with the price of fuel that would make for a pretty expensive trip.
All the models are turbo diesel and get around 12 to 15 litres per 100kms which is actually not too bad.
My estimated cost for a 9week trip in europe looks like this.
Motorhome $7200 AUD
Groceries@$40 per day $2200 AUD
Campsites which average 25-30AUD $1600
Fuel @9000kms for 9 weeks current diesel price $1.85AUD per litre Around $1600
So I figure that is my travel accommodation and food expense around $13,000AUD then i have allowed around $5000 spending money for the nine weeks.
When I worked out leasing a car and then hotels and meals the same trip for the same duration works out around $20,000 for transport, accomodation and food.
So i figured for a saving of $6000 I could learn to drive a manual.
Travelling by train would be a little cheaper but it is quite limiting and you still need to hire a car every now and then. There is also the added bonus of only unpacking once for the whole 9 weeks.
The other benefit is the flexibility. We may not get to all the countries i mentioned but we have a choice of finding somewhere nice if we like it and it wont cost us a lot of money. I am sure it would not suit everybody's idea of a holiday but I like road trips and in oz it is nothing to drive for 400kms in a day. As I am sure you all know 400kms in europe can mean 4 countries! The longest we envisage driving in Europe would be maybe 200kms in one day.
Since posting we have had lessons in a diesel minibus, and it was a little daunting at first but I think with perseverance we can get there. I think I will have to find ways of avoiding the downtown areas of the major cities, but we intended to do that anyway. Anyway thanks again for all of your comments. I have been trying for a while on this board to find people who have done a similiar trip but there are not many around. I will let you all know how I go and hopefully I will get back in one piece and still married!
I guess I should give a little more info regarding my trip.
I have been planning this trip for a couple of years now and have been waiting for the right time work wise to go which has now become Mid April this year until June30th.
I will be in the uk for 3 weeks and in europe for 9 weeks. The campervan is just for the europe leg which will be 9 weeks.
I have researched all of the options for travelling europe including cheap flights, trains, car hire, and other than backpacking which i am a little too old for, motorhomes appear to be the cheapest way to travel around europe. It appears from my research that most who do it are retirees as it is usually something you do over a few months and most of us dont get that large a block of time until we retire.
I have grown up kids and have a large chunk of long service leave so we are lucky to have both the money and time to do it in our mid 40s.
Through Mcrent in Frankfurt you can take the vehicle into Poland, Hungary, Czech republic and Bulgaria. They do not allow any of the balkan countries or ex soviet bloc.
I drive a toyota hilux 4wd which is an automatic so i have experience driving a larger sized vehicle and yes the RV in europe is smaller than the the US and Oz. The vehicle we are hiring is 2.33mtres wide and 5.5mtres long. So it is not a giant vehicle.
Longer than my hilux but about the same width.
I take all of your comments regarding city driving and was not planning to do so as most of the larger cities have what appear to be very modern campsites which have transits run by them to and from the city centres. From my research it appears many europeans travel this way or camp. It is mainly us foreigners who stay in hotels etc.
Unfortunately I could not find an automatic vehicle and i think this is because they are only petrol models and with the price of fuel that would make for a pretty expensive trip.
All the models are turbo diesel and get around 12 to 15 litres per 100kms which is actually not too bad.
My estimated cost for a 9week trip in europe looks like this.
Motorhome $7200 AUD
Groceries@$40 per day $2200 AUD
Campsites which average 25-30AUD $1600
Fuel @9000kms for 9 weeks current diesel price $1.85AUD per litre Around $1600
So I figure that is my travel accommodation and food expense around $13,000AUD then i have allowed around $5000 spending money for the nine weeks.
When I worked out leasing a car and then hotels and meals the same trip for the same duration works out around $20,000 for transport, accomodation and food.
So i figured for a saving of $6000 I could learn to drive a manual.
Travelling by train would be a little cheaper but it is quite limiting and you still need to hire a car every now and then. There is also the added bonus of only unpacking once for the whole 9 weeks.
The other benefit is the flexibility. We may not get to all the countries i mentioned but we have a choice of finding somewhere nice if we like it and it wont cost us a lot of money. I am sure it would not suit everybody's idea of a holiday but I like road trips and in oz it is nothing to drive for 400kms in a day. As I am sure you all know 400kms in europe can mean 4 countries! The longest we envisage driving in Europe would be maybe 200kms in one day.
Since posting we have had lessons in a diesel minibus, and it was a little daunting at first but I think with perseverance we can get there. I think I will have to find ways of avoiding the downtown areas of the major cities, but we intended to do that anyway. Anyway thanks again for all of your comments. I have been trying for a while on this board to find people who have done a similiar trip but there are not many around. I will let you all know how I go and hopefully I will get back in one piece and still married!
Jan 18th, 2007, 12:41 AM
#35
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From your last post it seems you have done lots of research and have a workable plan.
One statement: "Through Mcrent in Frankfurt you can take the vehicle into Poland, Hungary, Czech republic and Bulgaria. They do not allow any of the balkan countries or ex soviet bloc." contradicts itself, though. All of those countries are ex soviet bloc, and Bulgaria is a balkan country.
One statement: "Through Mcrent in Frankfurt you can take the vehicle into Poland, Hungary, Czech republic and Bulgaria. They do not allow any of the balkan countries or ex soviet bloc." contradicts itself, though. All of those countries are ex soviet bloc, and Bulgaria is a balkan country.
Jan 18th, 2007, 12:52 AM
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Hi Trip,
Everybody is making such a big deal about driving a manual vehicle. It just isn't that difficult! Really!! When driving in Europe on the opposite side of the road that you are used - the first couple of days can be a bit daunting but just take it 'steady as she goes' and you'll be fine.
I, like you, love road trips as well. I know that here in Oz when we did a 12 month road trip it's amazing the number of like minded people you come across and thence an absolute treasure network of information
Everybody is making such a big deal about driving a manual vehicle. It just isn't that difficult! Really!! When driving in Europe on the opposite side of the road that you are used - the first couple of days can be a bit daunting but just take it 'steady as she goes' and you'll be fine.
I, like you, love road trips as well. I know that here in Oz when we did a 12 month road trip it's amazing the number of like minded people you come across and thence an absolute treasure network of information
Jan 18th, 2007, 12:55 AM
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Doh! Doh! pushed the 'post' button in error. Sorry Trip!
In Europe, I'm sure you will come across folks who have been where you are going and can provide you a wealth of information regarding places to stay, places to avoid and best approaches into cities etc.
I also chose to drive a manual through Switzerland but it's just no biggie!!!
9 weeks in a motorhome through Europe sounds great to me Trip - I say go for it - just find that Aussie Adventuresome spirit and head off and have a ball.
In Europe, I'm sure you will come across folks who have been where you are going and can provide you a wealth of information regarding places to stay, places to avoid and best approaches into cities etc.
I also chose to drive a manual through Switzerland but it's just no biggie!!!
9 weeks in a motorhome through Europe sounds great to me Trip - I say go for it - just find that Aussie Adventuresome spirit and head off and have a ball.
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:12 AM
#38
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I'm Irish - we like the Aussies drive on the correct side of the road! I live in Belgium and drive on the wrong side now - but when I go to Ireland I switch easiliy and vice versa. After one or two days a stick shift will be like second nature.
Plus, most of your big driving will be on motorways - so its simpler.
Plus - if you are in the UK first - hire a car for a few days and practice driving stick shift on the "correct " side of the road and then you'll have no problem when your're thrown onto the "wrong" side.
It's really no big deal and the camper vans here are tiny - just don't try to park it in Paris or Rome and you'll be fine. Good onya mate
Plus, most of your big driving will be on motorways - so its simpler.
Plus - if you are in the UK first - hire a car for a few days and practice driving stick shift on the "correct " side of the road and then you'll have no problem when your're thrown onto the "wrong" side.
It's really no big deal and the camper vans here are tiny - just don't try to park it in Paris or Rome and you'll be fine. Good onya mate
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:14 AM
#39
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Heimdall,
Please excuse my ingnorance yes you are correct, I basically just speiled what the hire people told me.
Basically i was only interested in going to Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic, which they said were ok.
You just have to notify them before the hire which countries you intend to travel in and they will say yes or no.
Here are the conditions on the website.
"Journeys abroad within Europe are permitted. Journeys to countries outside of Europe are subject to the prior approval of the Rental Firm. Journeys to areas affected by war or crisis are prohibited."
Trip
Please excuse my ingnorance yes you are correct, I basically just speiled what the hire people told me.
Basically i was only interested in going to Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic, which they said were ok.
You just have to notify them before the hire which countries you intend to travel in and they will say yes or no.
Here are the conditions on the website.
"Journeys abroad within Europe are permitted. Journeys to countries outside of Europe are subject to the prior approval of the Rental Firm. Journeys to areas affected by war or crisis are prohibited."
Trip
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:17 AM
#40
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Thanks Lawchick,
I have hired a manual vehicle to drive around the UK for 2 weeks before we go to Europe so I was thinking that would be the go. Learn on the "right" side.
Thanks again for all of your comments and encouragement.
I have hired a manual vehicle to drive around the UK for 2 weeks before we go to Europe so I was thinking that would be the go. Learn on the "right" side.
Thanks again for all of your comments and encouragement.
