CarolA

One other thought (that will get me flamed) Several months ago I heard a RickSteves podcast where he interviewed a man who wrote an entire book on the subject of carvanning in Europed. If you have ITunes go do a search. Not sure what might be on his website on this.

SuzieC

of course its popular...camping seems to be popular. Along the banks of the Soane or the canal's, little campers would be all "set up" just for a weekend getaway it appeared. I saw so many, I wondered if there were trespassing rules ... in the US one might find themselves in a legal pickle just for pulling off to a pretty side of a river!
One site in Germany, pretty large splashy Mercedes dragging along a beat up pop-up tent rig... it was before a long holiday weekend so ...off they were going!

trip2006

Hello,

Just getting back regarding my progress at manual or stick shift driving.

I bit the bullet and swapped my nice automatic toyota suv for a mates not so nice manual toyota suv. He allowed me to have it for as long as I needed as he was obviously happy with the deal!

Anyway I can confidently report that I am now mastering the art of manual vehicle driving.

After some interesting moments and a couple of hours lesson from my mate I ventured onto some quiet roads near my home.

I spent a whole day just driving around starting in 1st working out how the clutch works, upshifting, downshifting, braking with the clutch even practiced the old hill starts with the handbrake.

I have now been driving his car for a week in all conditions including heavy traffic and I now feel confident that with enough practice I will be able to go for it in Europe in my Manual transmission Motorhome. To be honest I actually enjoy it more than driving my auto!

Thanks for all the positive comments, you helped me realise if i had a go i could do it. And thanks for all the negative comments, because you helped me to look at the reality of the situation and forced me to get off my backside and see if I could do it or not.

Don't get me wrong I am sure that driving in Europe and the UK in a 5mtre motorhome is still going to have it's moments but at least i can confidently hit the road without stalling or running into someone because i can't control the vehicle.

It will still be slow going but at least i will be going!!!

He has said I can keep his car until we go but I'll have to think about that one! Though the practice would be good!

Thanks again.
Trip.

Heimdall

>-

WTnow

The truth is driving a motorhome in Europe is one of the best ways to see it and many Europeans and Oz and Kiwi's know that.

This tour guide who has done it all explains it well:
http://www.transitionsabroad.com/pub...n_europe.shtml

We have been traveling Europe in a motorhome since last September and LOOOOOVE it. I have been many times, but this is really the BEST!
http://www.soultravelers3.com/

The roads are great in Europe ( you will mostly be on high ways that are similar to home) and fantastic campsites outside of every great city and many small towns. Just walk or use mass transit to get around.

Some campgrounds are like high class resorts with everything but the hotel ( multible pools, restaurants,stores, kids clubs, beaches,free wifi and internet cafes etc) like the ones outside of Venice.

That said, you will need to know how to drive a stick well and you will have to do your homework.

We usually just drive about 300 miles at a time or less, then park for a week or so. It is actually a very cheap way to do Europe and very comfortable as there is no packing and unpacking.

It also gives you great freedom...go when you want to go. I would just have a general idea and then be flexible when you arrive.

We ended up going slower than we thought we would since we have a child and enjoy slow travel.This spring, summer and fall we will be doing some of the same places as you as well as Turkey,Greece ( and non camper weeks into Russia and Morocco).

I would get a good gps and Church's book " European camping".

Prepare well and then have a blast!!

GSteed

Good posts. Define motorhome; or are you talking of a 'trailer'. or a fold down camper? Don't worry about roads; truckers are running tandem rigs and regular American size vehicles between the UK and Russia. Custom posts at borders may involve days of waiting. Consider taking driving lessons in each European country. They are inexpensive. Caution; overhead clearances.

kleeblatt

>Here is a link to the motorhome

http://www.mcrent.de/en/fahrzeuge_pr...y_standard.jsp <

It's so adorable and practical. Typical of what you would see in Europe.

WTnow

That is right huge trucks travel all over Europe and I am amazed at the large vans and trucks and things that manage to go thru tiny ,ancient streets.

If a truck can go thru ,you can go thru. We were a little cautious when we went on the Grand Crus in Burgundy,France going thru tiny towns and narrow streets. BUT we had no problem and knew we wouldn't when we were told big trucks go thru daily.

We had no trouble what so ever on any boarder thus far. In fact driving is one of the easiest border crossings way.

We also took no driving classes any where and do not think they are necessary if you can drive.

You will probably stay mostly on the high ways and they are similar to home and even nicer.Buy a cheap second hand bike to put on the back as another fun travel mode for smaller roads and closer look at the country side.

WTnow

Here is a family of four from France who took a motorhome around the world for four years and had a blast.They spent less than 1500 euros a month incuding airfares and cargo fees ( to haul motorhome over oceans).

http://ccarautourdumonde.free.fr/

We are living a great life on a similar budget.So many people are not even aware that this is possible.

You can easily find uncrowded places even in August. Few people know that one can camp in a great spot right in the middle of Paris on the Seine for very cheap.( We spent two weeks there and I enjoyed it more than the time I spent at the George V in a suite many years ago).

You have the right idea. Do not listen to people who do not know what they are talking about. Motorhomes are a GREAT way to see Europe!

It sounds like you are well prepared and will have a great trip!!

rs899

"I will be able to go for it in Europe in my Manual transmission Motorhome. To be honest I actually enjoy it more than driving my auto!"

Good for you. I am an American and have been driving nothing but manuals since I learned to drive 35 years ago. I like them better because it keeps you involved and in control of the vehicle. I think you will do just fine with your positive attitude and your advance planning. Don't listen to the naysayers and armchair quarterbacks.

Bon voyage.

Rick

Sue_xx_yy

First of all, trip2006, congratulations on learning to drive manual. Fortunately my parents' cars were always manuals, so I learned to drive manual in my first year with a driving license.

This seems to be a lifetime dream for you and I'm very pleased you shared with us all of your research. We haven't had many RV planners here, and your thread has been interesting indeed.

However I've been checking your budget figures, and just so that you make your final decision an informed one, I thought I'd toss this in.

First, it would help if you could convert $AUS to EUR. You have to get used to converting anyway, and besides, comparing numbers is easier when one takes some of the currency fluctuation out of the picture (sometimes inflation must also be adjusted for when reading figures here, but generally over a longer time period than that for currency markets.)

Okay, enough preamble. I calculate that, per day, you are spending € 68 for the RV. A further € 12 for campsites. That's a total of € 80 per day for accomodation. (It also includes part of your ground transport, but we'll come back to that.) A further € 24 for groceries, gives you a budget of &euro 104 per day for food and accomodation for two people. No question, that's pretty good - but bear in mind that self-catering can take time and energy, a significant factor especially if you choose to follow a fairly intense itinerary. You might find yourself breaking down and eating out fairly frequently. Or not, depending on how disciplined you are.

You calculate fuel costs at, lezzee, using x-rates.com, I make it an average of € 15 per day.

I think that is a very optimistic figure, at least in western Europe. (By the way, WTnow's link to the family of four's world caravan trip is fascinating, but difficult to compare figures with as costs were averaged over a period of 36 months, plus they travelled to many relatively cheap countries in the world. This squews the average of overall costs per month considerably.)Anyway, we've spent that much per day for fuel with a little buzzbox economy car. Since ultimately it depends on how much driving you do, then to assist with your calculations, I suggest you use viamichelin.com. You can compute driving directions, and while you're at it, set 'options' to "with Caravan" - to give a rough idea of fuel costs. They project the route Frankfurt to Cologne, a 2 hour stretch of driving, to cost about € 18 in fuel. Oh, and you will have to buy either a road sticker in many countries to cover government highway fees, and in France in particular, you will run into a lot of tolls if you use autoroutes. You also still need to figure in the cost of commuting from the campgrounds to the cities, not to mention getting around the cities themselves. In western Europe, this can add up.

I'm not saying 'don't do this' but you might want to peruse a budget check further, before making up your mind once and for all just how you want to do your trip to Europe. You've got a wealth of people here to discuss this with, including Bob Brown (whom I notice has posted here) and who has made many trips to Switzerland and so is particularly well qualified to advise on mountain driving, etc.

Again, thanks for telling us about this. It will be interesting to watch your planning, no matter what you decide.

Sue_xx_yy

oops, just realized that you are leaving in April of THIS year, 2007 - so chances are, you have committed by now. Do let us know how it goes. Good luck!

trip2006

Thanks for all of your replies. As i have said in an earlier post we do have an itinerary and will try to achieve it, but at the end of the day we have a MH for 9 weeks in Europe and I am sure we will be distracted along the way and throw the intinerary out a tad but hey, I am sure we will see a lot of the real Europe and that is ultimately what is motivating us.

I tend to think of myself as more of a traveller than a tourist, and i dont mean that in a derogatory way, it is just that people like different things.

Even if I could afford it, I couldnt see myself staying in a 5 star hotel. To me it is just a bed. And i am not into resorts, so i know others may see this as roughing it, we see it as an adventure. But thats just us.

Regarding budgets Sue, I am sure the budget will bend a little as is always the case with travelling OS and also we dont want to scrimp and save on every cent and not experience the place so I do have some leeway money wise.

We will have the campervan for 54 days which is only 8 weeks not nine
I have worked out the KMS using Viamichelin and worked out average mileage of 12litres of diesel per 100kms.

That is around 1600 to 2000 AUD in fuel
if we do the 8000 kms planned.

Eurowise that works out at 1.10 euro per litre. 12 litres is 13.2 Euro per 100kms 8000/100kms = 80, 80 X 13.2Euro = 1056 Euro current exchange rate = $1774 AUD.

In reality I have budgeted $2000 so we will see how we go.

Campervan is 83 Euro per night, average campsite price is 20 30 euro pernight (if we stay in campsite which may not be the case every night)so that is travel and accommodation except fuel 120 euro per day then groceries of $40aud which is 25euro per day and fuel say 1200 /54 20 euro a day so that is travel food and accomodation @ around 160 euro a day.
We have allowed around 50 euro a day spending money on top of that.

MH 83euro p/d
Campsites 30euro /pd
Groceries 25 euro p/d
Fuel 20 euro p/d
Spending money 50 euro p/d

All up we are looking at around 200-210 (330- 340AUD)euro a day for two people to travel europe.

I reckon you may be able to do it cheaper in hostels and trains but you dont have the flexibilty of the MH.
Cars trains and hotels maybe, but i would reckon the meals would be a killer as i have discovered on other OS trips. Plus we like the idea of being able to shop like the locals and cook our own whole food.

Like i said I am sure that for others this would not be a fun thing to do. But for us it will be great fun and we are quite used to this kind of camping caravaning and I am sure that europe would not be that different to the rest of the world.

Anyway thanks again for all of your replies and i will make a point of creating a detailed report of our adventure upon our return. Like i said earlier i am sure it will not be perfect what trip is? But that to me is part of the travel experience and what one person may find stressfull another may find challenging or even enjoyable.

If it all works out then others may be able to benefit from this form of travel and not see it as such a difficult or way out thing to do.
Here is a link to an aussie family couple who have done it and swear by it.

http://www.uq.net.au/~zzpeande/travel/

Sounds like Wtnow is also doing it and enjoying every minute. It is people like you who have motivated us to do it, so thanks for the encouragement!

Thanks again for all of your replies.
Trip

trip2006

Thanks again to Wtnow, Heimdell, Rick, Shculer, and Sue and for all of the other positive posts they are much apreciatted, as are the negative posts.

Thats what makes these forums so great because you get to bounce ideas and learn in ways that would be impossible without the benefit of the net and people who are prepared to take the time to offer advice.

Thanks again

A question for you Wtnow if you could answer it for me,where abouts did you stay in Paris Wtnow? Was it the Bois Bologne? Also have you been doing much wildcamping or staying mainly in Campgrounds?

Thanks again
Trip

WTnow

Here is a couple that do it regularly and have kept meticulous figures ( and their book shows comparisons to other ways of seing Europe.

"The Milavskys were meticulous about tracking costs for their adventure. When it was all totted up, the cost of their eleven-week odyssey worked out at almost exactly $100 a day for the two of them. “That included the cost of shipping the RV, our airfare, and all our European expenses,”

http://www.intrepidtraveler.com/travels/rv-europe.html

I am sure that you have seen this, but just in case;
http://www.karmabum.com/

Trust your instincts, you will have a wonderful time and it is easier and more enjoyable than we imagined beforehand.


You will have the time of your life!

rkkwan

Just be very careful when you first pick up the motorhome. Each vehicle's clutch pedal effort and travel is different.

Even I need a few minutes to readjust to <b>my own car</b> after driving someone else's manual.

WTnow

Usually they let you drive around with someone &quot;test driving&quot; until you feel secure.

We camped nearby at the start which is always a good idea while you are getting your feet wet.

( We actually had to call them to come jump start us after that first night at a nearby campsite..so it was great to be close by).

WTnow

Requot;A question for you Wtnow if you could answer it for me,where abouts did you stay in Paris Wtnow? Was it the Bois Bologne? Also have you been doing much wildcamping or staying mainly in Campgrounds?&quot;

Yes we stayed in Bois de Bologne for two weeks right on the Seine and looooved it. We were there in the fall and it was not very crowded.

It is a little older and not glamorous ,but you really can not beat the location. Everyone goes in so it is VERY quiet during the day.

It is a spectacular place to do Paris with a child because it is right in this gorgeous huge park,yet a subway ride away from everything.


Here is the start of our stay there if you want to have a look:
http://www.soultravelers3.com/blog/9...BA952F9CE.html

We have not done any wild camping yet. We are traveling with a young child and prefer to be cautious. I know lots of people who do it,but we are carrying more stuff than your typical camper and like the added security.

Plus the pools and playgrounds and such are nice with a kiddo along when we are doing non touring days.

We did actually do one wild camping outside a campsite that was closed in Carcasonne. There were a couple other campers there too as the books are not always accurate.

The roadside ones on the highway stops are suppose to be the most vulnerable so we would never park there overnight.We met an Aussie couple in Paris who were robbed in one..someone came in when they slept even with thier doors locked.

Inside the campgrounds it is extremely safe so we like that comfort since petty theft can be wierd in Europe ( altho so far we have had no problem).

Heimdall

Trip, years ago I stayed at a campground in Maisons-Lafitte, a Paris suburb. It was a short walk to the train station, which took us into central Paris. The next day it was an easy drive from there to Versailles. This may be the same one, but I'm not sure: http://tinyurl.com/33pavw.

trip2006

Thanks for that info Wtnow.

I checked out your website it is great and one could literally spend days there! You have done a great job detailing your experiences.

I am looking to buy a Garmin Nuvi 300 before travelling to Europe. Is that the model GPS you have and if so what are your thoughts on it?

Also where was the nice campground you stayed in Amsterdam near the water it looks very nice? I know of Gaasper but not of the other one.

Thanks for that recomendation Heimdell I have seen that site and was wondering which would be better for Paris, that or Bois Bologne.

Apparently the one you mention is close to Versailles. It is also one of the camping card sites for 14 euro a nite which is pretty good value.

Do you use the camping card Wtnow?

Thanks again for your help and info.
Trip.